Perkis-Size Me

November 16th, 2014 at 10:51 PM ^

I understand what you're saying, but his actions still reflect on the program. Its not Hoke's fault this happened, and it's certainly not any of the other player's faults, but Clark is a Michigan football player. His actions, whether good or bad, reflect the program. It's not indicative of the rest of the team, but its one more black eye for them to deal with.

It's really a "guilty by association" deal. In no way am I saying anyone other than Clark is guilty, but I just couldn't think of a better term to describe it.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 11/30/2011

MGoPoints: 105643

Ben v2

November 16th, 2014 at 10:05 PM ^

Clark needs to be dismissed tomorrow.

However, he should be allowed to finish the semester academically, and have access to the university counseling services.   We don't want to send this guy out to the real world at his current state, especially if his gf is pregnant.

Joined: 11/12/2013

MGoPoints: 691

PeterKlima

November 16th, 2014 at 10:10 PM ^

Full detail? You should change the title. Police reports are never the full story. I don't care what he did or didn't do (honestly, I don't), I just feel sad that a website full of UM grads appears ignorant of the legal system.


Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 08/24/2008

MGoPoints: -313

Bando Calrissian

November 16th, 2014 at 10:14 PM ^

So what is the "full story," then, and why would anything else nullify the fact that Frank Clark threw his possibly pregnant girlfriend off a wall while there were kids in the room, who then ran down the hallway of a hotel yelling "Frank is killing our sister!"?

Pray tell, what could possibly add to this story that would make any of that better? And why a police report isn't acceptable to establish those facts?

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 68117

TheSacko221

November 16th, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^

Who is to say she didn't get angry and arguing began and then she bit his nose. He reacted in shoving her off him which caused her to hit the wall and the lamp which would cause the noise the neighbors heard and then marks on her body from the lamp.

As for the kids. We don't know what their back ground is. They could come from a violent home where arguing is the norm and someone has been badly beat in front of them.

These things are why you allow the process to play out.

Then again this is the fan base who is so concerned with being high and mighty that they ignore due process just so they can say they are above Notre Dame or OSU

Joined: 10/12/2013

MGoPoints: 385

PeterKlima

November 16th, 2014 at 11:07 PM ^

"Enough" detail? Enough for what? The kid may have done everything mentioned and more, but there is more to it. As an aside, this is the EXACT reason criminal cases have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. A lot of people have "enough facts" after two minutes.


Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 08/24/2008

MGoPoints: -313

umumum

November 16th, 2014 at 11:20 PM ^

of playing football for the university of Michigan doesn't require guilt beyong a reasonable doubt---that's only the standard for our criminal justice system.  Next thing I know, my son will be insisting on that standard when I find him standing next to a newly broken window.

Joined: 01/06/2011

MGoPoints: 7883

TIMMMAAY

November 16th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^

I commented pretty early in this thread. My comments in the other thread were saying that we needed to wait for some facts to come out before burning Frank Clark at the stake. Just because he now certainly appears to be guilty, doesn't make what I said wrong. The fact that you say that and get upvotes for it is even more disturbing to me than people's initial reaction before any information was released. Tell me I'm wrong about any of that. 

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56285

B-Nut-GoBlue

November 16th, 2014 at 10:58 PM ^

Agree. It's pathetic people can't slow their roll and have a little patience anymore before knee-jerk reactions. As if all of the quick judgments we make in life that end up false don't teach us a lesson. And this part I type will go ignored because people would rather get panties in a bunch about being called out but YES THIS IS PRETTY BAD STUFF it, in all likelihood, appears. But EARLIER when no facts were out and people were calling for the guillotine already, relax and wait for details to make the rationale opinions and judgments. For focks sake.

Joined: 09/30/2011

MGoPoints: 43693

HollywoodHokeHogan

November 16th, 2014 at 11:25 PM ^

I admit I exaggerated your view, just like your buddy who replied below is exaggerating when he says others were making knee-jerk reactions.  However, you weren't just saying we needed to wait for the facts.  You were having a self-righteous fit over people who you thought were too quick to judge.  You wouldn't have needed 10+ posts if you were just saying we needed to wait for some facts.   You were insulting people who made a judgment (that appears to be correct) too quickly (in your opinion). But those people weren't making a judgment based on no information.  They were making a judgment based on the information that Frank Clark got arrested for domestic assualt.  Innocent until proven guilty is a good standard for criminal law courts, but there is no reason I can see (or least that anyone has mentioned) to extend that to individuals' judgments.  Why shouldn't I believe the police who arrested him when they claim that he was involved in an incident of domestic violence?  Because OMG GUYZ CHICKS LIE AND I HAD A BUDDY WHO BANGED A CHICK AND SHE WAS  A KNOWN LYING COMMODITY AT A FLAG FOOTBALL GAME AND...?    *I know you weren't making this last argument, but others were while you weren't making any argument on this point at all.

You can always claim we need more information.  It's always possible that some exclupatory fact is just waiting to be discovered.  Alas, we often have to, and ought to, made judgments based on imperfect information.  Now, I actually agree with you that kicking Frank Clark off the team without waiting to talk to him and see the police report would be foolish.  But I think it's perfectly reasonable to suspend him until then, using the fact of his arrest as good but rebuttable evidence that he did something bad.  Still, even the people who advocate the first (foolish) course of action are not the moral reprobates that you make them out to be. 

Joined: 02/12/2011

MGoPoints: 20454

Monocle Smile

November 16th, 2014 at 11:31 PM ^

Innocent until proven guilty is a good standard for criminal law courts, but there is no reason I can see (or least that anyone has mentioned) to extend that to individuals' judgments
Are you serious? The standard is like that because it's reasonable. I concede that most people are incredibly unreasonable, but that doesn't mean irrationality should be tolerated. People who jump to conclusions instead of waiting for the facts are fucking dumbasses and should be treated as such.

Joined: 09/17/2009

MGoPoints: 23065

Black Socks

November 16th, 2014 at 10:28 PM ^

It's sad.  Two games left in his career.  After reading the stories about his childhood you hoped it would turn out better.  This is a shame.  More important than football Frank needs to get his life together.  

Joined: 11/30/2009

MGoPoints: 14363

Jimmyisgod

November 16th, 2014 at 10:30 PM ^

This is a sad day for Michigan Football. I am simply speechless. I know his actions don't represent the program, but Clark is a representative of the team and the school. This is sad in so many ways, but it just breaks my heart what's that girl and those kids endured.

Joined: 01/24/2012

MGoPoints: 10342

SFBlue

November 16th, 2014 at 10:31 PM ^

Frank Clark has many more important issues to grapple with than football. I hope that he gets the help and support he needs to straighten his life out, as this clearly came from a dark place.

Joined: 11/02/2009

MGoPoints: 15699

steve sharik

November 16th, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^

...but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.  Let him finish his degree online/correspondence and get him some professional help (assuming what's being reported are the facts of the case).  I don't believe regular prison will be good for Frank, and certainly won't "rehabilitate" him.

Joined: 08/08/2009

MGoPoints: 13860

1 percent

November 16th, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^

Terrible situation. Hope he can turn his life back on track and not let this ruin the rest of his life.

For his live in girlfriend, I hope the best for her. If she is pregnant I hope nothing is wrong with the baby and I hope this hasn't been going on for a long time.

Ugh. Terrible every way you look at it.

Joined: 09/09/2010

MGoPoints: 11273

Coldwater

November 16th, 2014 at 10:53 PM ^

Hoke better be front and center on this tomorrow. None of this "let the legal system work" bullshit.

It's one of his SONS after all. No head in the sand stuff.
The new Prez must be shaking his head in disbelief at this football program.

Joined: 12/14/2008

MGoPoints: 11234

Average Father

November 16th, 2014 at 11:06 PM ^

Indefinite suspension until everything is learned about the situation, which should hopefully be after it will no longer matter for his playing days at Michigan. I hope he figures out his life, because before this, he had a nice redemption story. It's shame his story now must include this chapter as well.

Joined: 07/24/2014

MGoPoints: 406