profitgoblue

November 9th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^

Here's an interesting question for debate:  If Rodriguez can pull in guys like Dee Hart, DeAnthony Arnett, Marquise Williams (??), and others (defenders?) that were seriously considering other programs until watching Michigan play this year, how does that sit with Rodriguez haters/dislikers?  Does him pulling in a good recruiting class after struggling his first three years here make any difference in their opinions?

Beavis

November 9th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^

I am not a RR hater by any means but to play devil's advocate....

RR should be getting high four star offensive recruits this year, given that our offense is clicking on all cylinders.  If you are a speedy back or receiver - why wouldn't you want to play in this offense?  The ONLY other team that has had insane offensive production throughout the year has been Oregon.  They should be our main competition for these kids.

We're probably still away from getting 5-star recruits because, like it or not, RR's future is still not set in stone and there are only so many 5-stars to go around....

Bodogblog

November 9th, 2010 at 12:47 PM ^

Fully agree with that, but as Brian said earlier this year (back when we was 5-0), it will be next year's class that will really benefit.  I lot of this year's kids have already committed, made plans, made friends with other recruits and guys on the team.  Hard for them to switch.  If we continue to do well this year and into the bowl, next year should be the big 'un.  Especially if RR job speculation has ended, as you mention

Roy D Hibble

November 9th, 2010 at 5:35 PM ^

Even though this "Brian" said it, it's BS. For one, doesn't Rodriguez recruit up till signing day? Isn't Rodriguez the one who said something like, "If they ain't signed, they could still be mined"? OR did he say, "Until he signs, he could be mines"?

The point being: Good recruiters RECRUIT. Now we've got the excuse mill running into recruiting.

Yes, things just keep getting fuzzier and fuzzier on Michigan message boards.

You guys just don't understand how enabling you have become.

El Jeffe

November 9th, 2010 at 7:54 PM ^

Who is this "Brian" anyway? If that is his real name...

Also,

Isn't Rodriguez the one who said something like, "If they ain't signed, they could still be mined"? OR did he say, "Until he signs, he could be mines"?

When you think of Brian, does Johnny Cochran pop into your head?

jaggs

November 9th, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^

We're probably still away from getting 5-star recruits

Watch for Dee Hart to grab his fifth star by the end of the year. He currently sits as the next player in line to get it. Also, though we have a (very?) small chance we are in on maybe HaHa or Karlos Williams, both 5* safeties.

Beavis

November 9th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^

Excellent point on Dee.

In agreeance: If his team wins the state title, and he continues at his current pace of awesomeness - he's a five star no doubt.

In disagreeance: Just because he's the next in line right now, doesn't mean he will be the next in line when the rankings are updated.  Those things are fluid, ya know...

Beavis

November 9th, 2010 at 4:24 PM ^

Wait, what?

I'm talking about star rankings because I don't have any other way to approach the question that was asked:

Does him pulling in a good recruiting class after struggling his first three years here make any difference in their opinions?

How else would you say if a recruiting class is "good" without having them even so much as practice at Michigan?  You go by the star rating.  That's it. 

I know RR and staff don't trust the recruiting sites and they do their own work.  But guess what?  I'm not part of that staff and the ratings are all I have to go by.

I mean, hell man - what the f*** do you expect?

msoccer10

November 9th, 2010 at 6:08 PM ^

and I would add that if we finish 8-5 after the bowl game we should get some love from defensive recruits as well. The argument is, we have  killer offense but a horrible defense. If you come here player x (cough cough, Clinton-Dix, cough cough) you will be an instant starter and make our defense a little better so that we can compete for a national title next year. Rodriguez is safe and all we need is you Mr. 5 star to make this promising young defense competent. Show them the defensive line-Martin, Roh, VanBergen. Show them the linebackers- Demens, Fitzgerald and then show them their competition at DB. We should pull in at least a couple 4-5 star dbs in this class when all is said and done.

Wahlberg

November 9th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^

You didn't refute his point.  He said the argument would be that RR should have a top 10 class every year.  So you think recruiting would make a difference? wow that's a bold statement.  But do the RR haters actually believe that RR CAN bring in a top 10 class every year?  With all the 3 star hate I've seen, I'm thinking the haters don't believe he can.

blueblueblue

November 9th, 2010 at 3:45 PM ^

You have got to be kidding me - a reply based on lack of comprehension, that bring in some outside arguments about 3 stars, and a neg. Wow. He said " I imagine if you're anti-RR at this point, you're going to be anti regardless of the kids he brings in this year." The attempted implication of my response was to say "not so, I am anti-RR at this point, yet I could change my mind due to this year's recruiting class." I am not sure why was difficult to comprehend.

umchicago

November 9th, 2010 at 6:34 PM ^

very difficult, imo.  it's my understanding that the scouting services rate players based on "pro" potential.  RR recruits a lot of guys who don't normally score well for "pro potential" (small speedy guys and dual threat QBs).  that can hurt an overall "site" ranking, but still be very good for college and RR's schemes.

profitgoblue

November 9th, 2010 at 4:24 PM ^

BlueBlueBlue, I am pro-Rodriguez and would like to think that a masterful job of putting together a recruiting class (meaning nabbing some sought-after kids) might change at least a few minds but wasn't sure if that would be the case.

However, as a lawyer, I'm all about playing devil's advocate and I think dwinning raised a valid point.  Not all anti-Rodriguez people will agree, but I'm sure some thing that way.

jmblue

November 9th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^

Does him pulling in a good recruiting class after struggling his first three years here make any difference in their opinions?

Frankly, I expect any Michigan coach to recruit well.  If he were not able to do so, that would be a red flag.  But ultimately, how we do on the field is what's most important.  Last Saturday was a step in the right direction.  I hope and expect to see us take another step this Saturday. 

blueblueblue

November 9th, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^

Profit - I appreciate the non-accusatorial, non-confrontational question posed to we the RR detractors (I am not a 'hater'). As for an answer, my argument has been based on the feedback loops from this transitional period to future periods; in essence the terrible transition making any future success quite difficult. The strongest, perhaps most influential feedback loop is obviously recruiting. If RR can pull in a strong class this year - I mean a top 15 class - then that says a lot about the potential success in his future here. Wins and losses mean a lot, but so do the non-quantitative factors, such as the 'feeling' kids get from the place and the program, their relationships with coaches and players, how they perceive that the current players like being here, reputation, how passionate the fans are, and so on.

His ability to pull in a strong recruiting class, and to keep the vast majority of that class, to me means he is leading and managing well on that front - and those two important attributes have been my biggest problems with RR thus far. In short, it will make a big difference in my perception of RR's likely success here. 

dahblue

November 9th, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^

I think a very important point to consider is RR's ability to keep his recruits.  If RR can pull a top-10 class (ok, top-15) with a mediocre year, I'll be impressed.  It will be more impressive, however, to see him retain his entire class two or three years down the road.  Someone likely has the exact number, but I think he's already lost ~20% of his defensive recruits.  That's not a good sign or a way to build needed depth.  

blueblueblue

November 9th, 2010 at 2:54 PM ^

Agree - the class we got last year was impressive after the two previous seasons; getting a better class this year will, to me, be more impressive. 

On a related point - bringing in a good class this year means RR will ensure us that he can manage well on that front, but I don't think it will be the result of any change in management philosophy - just perhaps an improvement in the same approach. What will really make me believe he can succeed here is if he changes his management philosophy/approach for the defense. Namely, if he fires his buddies on the defensive staff and either lets Gerg pick his own staff or lets whatever new DC comes in pick his own staff. That will bolster my faith in RR, not so much because of the change in staff, but because he is willing to change his philosophy. 

dahblue

November 9th, 2010 at 8:34 PM ^

Let's see:

Cissoko (he counts...RR was the coach...so he counts)
Dorsey (unless he was a ghost that RR never recruited, offered and signed...he counts.)
Turner 
Lalotta
Vlad
Marcus Witherspoon 
Taylor Hill  
Adrian Witty 

I checked RR's recruiting classes.  He had 31 defensive recruits from 2008-2010 (I know...I know...he didn't have the full class for 2008...but it's still his class).  He lost the 8 players above for non-injury reasons.  That's 26% of his defensive recruits that are now gone.  It's certainly possible that I made a mistake somewhere, so please let me know if I did. 

James Burrill Angell

November 9th, 2010 at 3:21 PM ^

I wouldn't say I fit in as a hater or skeptic but someone who thought he was the best choice at the time (post Bill Martin Sailing Incident/Oh no Les Miles) but still wanted to see how his past translated to the Big Ten.

Yeah clearly offensive recruits will jump to him based on how his system can highlight their abilities. However, still has to sell me on getting defensive recruits, particularly ones that will clear the NCAA Clearinghouse. I'm sold on the offense but I still think that the rumblings I'm hearing for removal of the defensive staff and a David Brandon led decision on a new Defense Czar (particularly if that person has Michigan ties) may be a nice option.  If we can start pulling in some defensive recruits that are regarded on the same level nationally as Arnett and Dee Hart, then we'll be talking.

ThWard

November 9th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^

a totally pointless exercise.  Well, I suppose that's true of all recruits, but you know what I mean.  I'll get excited about Arnett if he signs with UM on signing day.  If not, no worries.  Just no reason to chase every angle.

Old School Wolverine

November 9th, 2010 at 12:32 PM ^

Regarding Sam saying how can Arnett has his "heart" with Tennessee... put this in perspective... Arnett grew up Blue his entire life, and first thought the spread won't favor him, so he wandered in the desert looking for another school, and the 'heart" comment refers to the schools if Michigan isn't considered, but it is.  Wake up people.

Kramer

November 9th, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^

I don't think Sam has said he is "not going to MI" just that he'd be surprised if he did.  I think he's said recently that this weekends visit gave Arnett something to think about with regards to Michigan and that Michigan "in his opinion" is trailing MSU and Tennessee.