Current scholarship count: 106
So, currently at 106 scholarships from what I can tell. Yes, there still is an NCAA limit of 85 scholarships. No, the Covid year does not matter anymore, the NCAA went back to 85 cap in 2022. Yes, players can still receive an extra year for Covid; but they still count towards the 85 . So here is where things get interesting. How does NIL play into this? As far as I know, scholarships are four year offers. So a player like JJ cannot become a walk on and just have his scholarship paid by NIL. However, transfer players and 5th/6th year players probably can and still be within the rules. So if UM is bringing in grad guys like Nugent, they can probably work out an NIL deal and not have them count towards the 85. Also I believe a guy like Gemon Green could get the same arrangement since he would be a 6th year guy. Regardless, I think our number will probably be in high 80s so we will see a good deal of attrition when the season ends. There are quite a few guys who will depart for the NFL from this list also. I didn’t include guys who have already declared they are leaving.
QB (5)
McCarthy
Orji
Tuttle #
Denegal
Bell*
RB: (7)
Corum
Edwards
Stokes
Dunlop
Mullings
Cabana*
Hall*
WR: (12)
Johnson
Wilson
Henning
Anthony
Clemons
Morris
Walker
Dixon
Dennis
Moore*
Morgan*
English*
TE: (6)
Loveland
Hibner
Barner #
Klein
Tonielli*
Marshall*
OL: (20)
Barnhart
Jones
Zinter
Keegan
Henderson #
Nugent #
Persi
Hinton #
Crippen
Atteberry
Bounds
El Hadi
Anderson
Gentry
Lorenzetti
Jones
Guidice
Herring *
Link*
Efobi*
DT: 11
Welschoff
Smith
Goode
Iwunnah
Jenkins
Graham
Grant
Benny
Etta*
Bahr*
Pierce*
DE: (12)
Upshaw
Morris
Okie
McGregor
Harrell
Stewart #
Guy
Moore
McLaurin
Bennett
Pollard
Koumba*
LB: (12)
Barrett
Velesquez
Colson
NHG
Rolder
Hood
Spurlock
Hausmann #
Hewlett*
Ishamail*
Bridgeman*
Moore*
CB: (10)
Green
Turner
Sainristil
Perry
Johnson
McBurrows
Jones
Pollard
Calhoun*
Hill*
S: (9)
Green
Johnson
Moore
Paige
Moten
Sabb
Dent
Berry
Waller*
ST: (2)
Doman
Samaha*
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:46 AM ^
* = New recruit
# = Transfer
Also, my observations from this. 20 is a lot of offensive lineman. I think you were going to see at least four or five move on. The rest of the positions are going to lose a guy or two here or there but we seem to be in pretty good shape and it will all depend on who decides to come back. If Corum goes, I could see us pursuing a transfer RB. Same situation with CB, really depends on Green/Turner.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:44 AM ^
My guess- and it's just an ignorant guess here- but I'm going to guess that the Athletic department has already thought of this, and that they have a plan. Also, signing a letter of intent doesn't mean you are now on scholarship.
December 22nd, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
I posted a thread a couple of days ago about the current relevance of the 85 limit. We carried 88 this year and it seems not to matter in the wild world of NIL.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:09 PM ^
I posted this question as well, about 2 months ago, and got some lukewarm replies, best summarized as "meh, quit thinking so much". However, I have taken a vow of silence w/r to ever making note of being an original poster about an idea that wasn't ready for a prime-time discussion.
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:55 AM ^
As far as I know, scholarships are four year offers. So a player like JJ cannot become a walk on and just have his scholarship paid by NIL
This is incorrect. Scholarships are year to year. Players all have to re-sign for their scholarship each year.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:00 AM ^
I’m not sure that’s correct but if someone knows definitively I will defer to them. From what I have read, the NCAA does not allow anyone who signed a scholarship out of HS to go to walk on status after signing that paperwork. But if someone can dispute that, I will listen. Last year we were at 87 but also had some transfer guys who probably had an NIL deal.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
As a former scholarship athlete at the college level, I’m definitively telling you I had to re-sign for my scholarship every year.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:25 AM ^
I suspect TK is remembering some discussions of making scholarships guaranteed for 4 years, but I also suspect that had to do with promising not to revoke them for performance-related reasons, and not with any signed documents themselves becoming valid for 4 years.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:34 AM ^
correct… there have been discussions, especially concerning Saban essentially “cutting” players who were hurt or underperformed to make room for more scholarships for the incoming class.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
the NCAA paperwork specifically prohibits 'cutting' someone from scholarship for performance-related reasons. grades, lack of credits, and behavior can be used. obviously, we all know you can make a kid's life miserable and drive them off making it a defacto cut. one other thing, i believe the SEC specifically is a 'year-at-a-time' scholarship, while most places are a 4 yr commitment. maybe?
EDIT: here is a link to the diary i posted about this a couple of years ago, and it has the NCAA paperwork embedded so you can read it: https://mgoblog.com/diaries/recruiting-trail-signing-your-national-letter-intent-nli
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
as the father of two (so far) scholarship football players i can tell you that they/we don't have to sign up for the scholarship every year. each year you affirm what amounts to 'student aid' package of the athletic scholarship and pay your ~$100 student fee, and away you go for another year. i think i posted one of the boys' scholarship paperwork in a diary a couple of years ago when that son was committing. it's a 4 yrs deal.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:33 AM ^
Thanks. Not trying to cause a fight. JohhnyHintz says I’m wrong, you confirm what i have heard. I believe it was Sam Webb that said the scholarship players can’t go on walk on status to get around the system. But I do think we can be creative with transfers and grad students with NIL where we couldn’t before. Either way, I don’t see it as an issue and we will probably go into the fall in the mid to high 80s.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:45 AM ^
It’s generally left up to the individual institutions how the process is handled. If they choose to guarantee your scholarship for four years, they can do that. Sounds like the schools your kids went to went that direction. If they require you to re-sign for the scholarship each year, they can do that. As the university I attended did. But a simple Google search will tell you that scholarships are year to year and not guaranteed for 4 years.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:08 PM ^
It sounds to me that you are both saying the same thing, just your perception of it is different.
It sounds year to year, but it also sounds like it would be unusual to have it be anything but a formality in signing off each year. Probably going into year 5 there are conversations about whether you have earned it.
January 30th, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
You posted scholarship paperwork? Link or gtfoh.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:47 AM ^
Same here, a scholarship is a year to year basis. You essentially have to "earn" your scholarship every year.
Now at Michigan with such a large budget, several of these players may appear that have a 4 year scholarship but technically that is not the case. I just so happen to have my scholarship at a DII university (Ferris State - home to the National Champs in DII football!!) and I remember sitting in my coaches office every Spring and having conversations with him on how to best divide up our scholarships (I was a swimmer and our budget was much smaller so we would split up our scholarships among the team). I was part of this conversation because I was the team captain my Jr and Sr years.
Also, if you think about is, in the SEC this is how the "process" several athletes year after year. If a 4 or 5 star does not show out right away (think Okie), they pull (or do not offer) the scholarship the following year.
December 22nd, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
You are right but I believe the Big Ten was making a change the scholarship to make it 4 year agreement. Again, not sure if this came to fruition but I recollect some schools made it 4 years..
References:
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11666316/big-ten-guarantees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes
"The Big Ten last week announced four initial recommendations to the NCAA to improve athlete welfare: enhancing the value of scholarships to cover the full cost of education, a multiyear scholarship guarantee, ensuring that scholarships are available for life to those who leave before they complete their degrees, and improved medical coverage."
https://www.athleticbusiness.com/operations/legal/article/15146113/big-ten-becomes-first-power-conference-to-guarantee-scholarships
"This is the third academic year the NCAA has allowed schools the option to provide multiyear scholarships. Several schools, including USC and many in the Big Ten were already offering multiyear scholarships to some of their student-athletes. However, the multiyear deals were typically limited to those in revenue generating sports."
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
October 8, 2014
"The Big Ten announced Wednesday that all of its institutions will grant athletic scholarships for the entire term of an athlete's enrollment and allow some athletes who leave school to return and finish their degrees on scholarship."
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11666316/big-ten-guarantees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
This is simply an agreement by the Big Ten institutions not to revoke scholarships, which isn’t what would be happening here. We aren’t “pulling” anyones scholarship, we’re having well-off athletes that agree to forego their scholarships to pay their own way with NIL deals.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:32 AM ^
I think you and OP are both shades of incorrect. I believe it's a B1G agreement that all the scholarships are for four years:
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11666316/big-ten-guarantees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes
but it's not an NCAA thing, and I don't think there's much enforcement of it. If there's an extra scholarship for a term or something like that it can be given out as a one-off thing.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:41 AM ^
The Big Ten agreement is that they will grant the scholarships for 4 years, not that the scholarships are four year deals. Simply put, the schools agreed not to revoke anyones scholarships as long as the athlete remains in good standing. Doesn’t change the dynamic of how the scholarship itself functions.
December 22nd, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
I was going to post something similar. My understanding was that assuming good behavior, the scholarship would be guaranteed for four years. That means that even if the athlete has eligibility remaining anything after 4-years is at the discretion of the school.
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:55 AM ^
Brian said at some point that scholarship limits don't mean anything anymore, so this site stopped counting it or worrying over it.
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:59 AM ^
I remember him saying that, but to be honest I don't understand this comment. I must admit I could be completely misunderstanding the current nature of things. The NIL, portal, and so much change in just the last couple of years may have changed things. I would love it if someone could explain it to me.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
I dont think there's really a clearcut explanation. In theory, schools *can* simply not offer scholarships and instead help arrange NIL agreements to fund school. In practice, I doubt UM goes that route. Also, scholarships are NOT a 4 year contract, but again, in the past its been a bad look to pull somebody's scholarship, so unless they go down the road mentioned above, I doubt UM takes this tact either.
Pure speculation on my part, but most likely between NFL departures, grads leaving, and transfers out that won't be announced until after UM wins the national championship, they'll be at or near the limit of 85. If they are slightly above, then they may use NIL instead of scholarships for some of the inbound transfers, although it seems like they'd need to know that before the player enrolls (before the natty).
Will be interesting to monitor how different schools handle this issue moving forward. Definitely a new challenge the portal has created.
December 22nd, 2022 at 11:47 AM ^
Thank you
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:01 AM ^
Yes, but what would become of this site without the worrying?
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:03 AM ^
And yes I know Brian said it, but I’m not sure he’s completely correct in this context. I still don’t think you can have 100 guys with a bunch of your “scholarship” guys getting NIL money to cover it. I think transfers who were not previously on scholarship at Michigan or grad student guys might be the only way to “game the system”.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
I thought there was a NCAA rule where if you took an official visit you couldn't count as a walk on. Maybe someone can correct me on that?
In any case I think there's going to be an Exodus after the playoffs. Like some of the guys that aren't even close to the field will move on as will some guys in the two deep that got passed
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:45 AM ^
I don't know about that, but there is a rule that if you order the nachos to share, one person can't eat all the fully loaded ones with meat and stuff.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:35 AM ^
Now we can worry about how many depth chart posts will follow...
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
107 if you count your *insert someone who you love and respect here*.
Boom! Roasted.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
so this puts us over by 21, and we are still pursuing players, so I assume there is a lot more known with the coaching staff
players I think that move on - possible attrition
Corum - NFL
Zinter - NFL
Keegan - NFL
WR - CJ - NFL
WR - Dennis - transfer
WR - Dixon - transfer
OL - Guidice - transfer
OL - Bounds - transfer
OL - C. Jones - transfer
OL - one of Crippem/Attebury/Anderson (maybe even 2 of them)
DL - Morris - NFL
DL - Welschof - transfer
DL - Mazi - NFL
DL - Bennett - transfer
DB - DJ - NFL
DB - Perry - transfer
that's 16 - I'm sure others could point out more
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
Like I said below I did something similar and got 18. Pretty much the same list except:
I kept CJ, Jones and Turner. But added the Green brothers, Hood, Velasquez, and Dunlap as potential obvious transfer guys. That takes your list from 16 to the 18 I had.
Like I said in my post, you can still add in around 3 more freshmen/transfers and not be too concerned with numbers. I think we’ll need another RB if we lose Corum/Dunlap, so that’s a transfer. And then two potential freshmen in Harbor and one of Brandt/Howard.
If we lose CJ, I’d argue we could go after another WR so that keeps numbers even. And if we lose Turner add another CB, but once again a 1 for 1 swap scholarship wise. So I think realistically we’ll be around 91 or so before accounting for any surprise transfers or guys who transfer out after spring battles. So we could be right around 85 without adjusting for NIL scholarships.
December 22nd, 2022 at 12:40 PM ^
Only comment is Velazquez likely wouldn't transfer, but just focus on baseball.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:21 AM ^
The safety room is pretty stacked with us bringing in Zeke Berry, Keon Sabb, and Damani Dent last year. Not sure if they plan to move any of them to CB or NB but with Paige, Moten, and Quinten Johnson rotating through one of the safety positions plus last year's recruits, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them left.
I also wouldn't be shocked to see players turn down 6th year opportunities like Barrett or Gemon Green. Barrett mentioned he wasn't sure if he wanted to be "the old guy in the locker room." I think we can look back at our college days fondly and gladly sign up for a 6th year but eventually it does get old for some people and after seeing most of their friends in their class already move on, they might just want to begin their careers & life after football when they know they likely don't have an NFL future.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
Beyond what everyone else has said about scholarship limits not really meaning much anymore, just from a quick look and count I got ~18 guys who seem like obvious NFL or transfer guys once the season ends.
That would get us down to 88, and even if you say we add 3 more scholarships (between transfers and late signees), I don’t think it’s hard to imagine us losing another 4ish guys to surprise transfers/spring transfers after depth charts are more settled. Even in the worst case, we’re really only talking about one or two spots oversigned, so I’m not too worried.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
Isn't the rule that once they sign a letter of intent they have to be scholarship players? Since they're signing a legally binding contract like you mentioned.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
I believe they have to be at 85 next fall, and the signing players and transfers in, some enroll now/early and some won't come until the summer/fall. But it's the fall that has to be at 85. I do think the ncaa isn't worried about the winter/spring as none of these players are eligible for the bowl games the immediate eligibility is for 2023 season not this season.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:14 AM ^
20+ over seems like a lot on paper, but transfers and NFL decisions will take care of most of it imo. We'll see a lot of transfers whenever Michigan's season finally ends (hopefully not until January!)
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^
Wait a minute…There are rules?
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
This is not nam… there are rules
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:33 AM ^
Honestly I don’t think there are anymore. After the Supreme Court ruling, the NCAA put a closed sign in the window and GTFO.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
Agree...what is a rule without enforcement? Compliance must be a fun job now.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:24 AM ^
impressive work. Personally, my level of interest in roster management ends somewhere between "who is on the roster' and 'how does this person count towards a nebulous scholarship count in a world where NIL exists to potentially blur the lines."
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
Yeah, and to be clear I don’t think we are going to have a problem. I think there are a lot of guys who are gonna go to the NFL and a lot of guys who are going to look for playing time elsewhere. I think that’s normal. But at the same time inevitably there are going to be people that are gonna freak out every time a third string player enters the portal, and they shouldn’t.
December 22nd, 2022 at 11:08 AM ^
While I think posters worry too much, I don't recall any handwringing over third-string players transferring out for playing time somewhere else. Who freaked out when Rooks hit the portal? Much the same reaction even for former starters and (current?) team captains. A lot of folks would have liked All to stay but lost interest when he and his family starting going off on the program and a freshman player who did well this year in All's absence. Much the same for McNamara who everyone expected would leave.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
I was wondering why I haven't received an offer yet.... now it makes perfect sense.
December 22nd, 2022 at 11:23 AM ^
No offer yet since they haven't seen your avatar.
December 22nd, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
The team is going to be fine relative to the roster count.
There are at least 10-20 players on that list who could be transfer candidates.
It'll all depends on their priorities and those of the coaches.
Some players are fine with being third- or fourth-string throughout their careers...and the coaches might like having them on the team for their good attitude, their special teams play, etc.
Other players - most likely third- and fourth-year players - may want to leave and transfer down a tier to get more playing time throughout the remainder of their college years.
Others could receive a polite - but firm - handshake and "thanks for your efforts" from the coaches.