but it's not an NCAA thing, and I don't think there's much enforcement of it. If there's an extra scholarship for a term or something like that it can be given out as a one-off thing.
oh right - I'm definitely not saying "Crump is a victim of the lack of security preventing him from assaulting someone". He went crazy and assaulted someone, and should probably be charged with something (IANAL).
I'm saying that in prior incidents, they didn't escalate because there were so many people around it couldn't. That wasn't true here.
As I said - the MSU players are completely in the wrong and should get whatever punishment comes their way.
Looking at how to stop this in the future, three (edit: big) games in a row -something- has happened in the tunnel. Maybe that's an anomaly, but maybe it's the new norm and Michigan should consider doing something about it. (sounds like they tried with more security for this game?)
But that's not true. There's been incidents the last 3 games with a pulse that were played there. The difference is when it took place and if there were people around to stop it. There weren't in this case. It also happened pre-game with OSU in 2013, I'm sure I could find more if I spent 10 minutes searching the internet.
Not to say MSU people couldn't have stepped up, a lot of running away from people who could've been adults and protected Green/McBurrows. I think basically only Xavier Henderson did anything from what I've seen in the videos
Was at the game, about 25y line on the home side. Pretty fun. My first football L in there (was also at the Big Chill, so overall record now 2-2)
---------------
Atmosphere thoughts:
- cute stadium, very quaint. Got really loud a few times, but was clear the fans didn't think there was much doubt who'd win ha.
- Loved the pregame pass-punt-kick competition for the gift cards, and the timeout where the girl had to catch punts from the jug machine for a gift card.
- Mr Brightside light show was okay. Cool concept, but a) kinda wished they'd turned off the lights, or dimmed them at least. MSU does during it's 3rd-4th quarter break. b) did they tell people to download the app any time prior to 15 seconds before they played the music? If so I missed it, as did most people around me.
- didn't have cell reception from the time I was within about .25 of the stadium until the mid-2nd quarter.
---------------
Game thoughts:
- there cannot be a person alive, MSUs OC included, that thought either 4th down running play would be successful. Like, holy shit man. You watch this OL for 7 games and thought "yeah, they'll get a push"? I'm losing patience with the all-bombs offense. With Coleman/Reed taking a lot of attention, any underneath stuff could be successful.
- disagree on OPI on the TD play
- otherwise, not a lot to say about MSUs offense. It cannot do anything consistently because the OL is consistently awful.
---------------
Tunnel thoughts:
- No saving the MSU players. Suspend them, let the county prosecute them, whatever. It's probably not a coincidence that position groups walked off the field together, but for those keeping track it's 4 DEs (Young, Brown, Wright, Windmon), 4 DBs (White, Grose, Jones, Crump) who were involved (so far).
- I saw a lot of security and police in the footage that's been released, so I'd think criminal charges would be pretty well founded by reliable 1st hand accounts of what happened. I kinda doubt anyone gets charged for the McBurrows stuff, but I'd suspect Crump and possibly Windmon do for the Green stuff.
- No one on here will like it, but James Franklin is right. Part of the issue is the proximity to each other. The thing that saved the OSU/PSU events from being a fight is that they happened at halftime, where teams are separated by officials and a bunch of other people. At the end of the game that didn't exist, the refs are gone.
Yeah, that was an absolute disaster. No one in the stadium thought the FG was going to be made.
I wonder if the play was to audible to that if it was soft coverage vs running up the middle? Because Reed had a cushion on who was defending him, but the outside corner came in like a bullet. I think overall it was just a stupid, low value, high risk play. The bigger coaching mistake was taking their 2 timeouts on 1st and 2nd down instead of saving one for right before the kick, knowing you have a bad kicker and snapper.
We switched from a right footed kicker to a left footed one after 3 games, who then missed his FG attempt. Then when they went back to the right footed kicker in the same game, I'm almost positive our long snapper forgot which side the holder would be on and sailed it way wide. WHEEEEEEEEEEEE
Also our starting long snapper has been out injured for OSU and Wisconsin, so we're on our back up there too.
DL: DTs Slade, Barrow, Hansen, and Hunt have all missed at least one game (I think Harmon has been healthy for all). 2nd and 3rd DEs Bogle and Pietrowski have now been out several weeks. Dunn was hurt against Wisconsin. So how harsh can the criticisms be of the players on the field when it's not anything like it was projected to be? Mallory shifted from DT to DE against Wisconsin, I think mainly just to combat their bulk, so maybe we see that again. Wright doesn't get a ton of consistent pressure at DE when he's in.
LB: have been bad. the opening snap of the season was BVS and Snow, so functionally like a 4-1-6. With Snow gone and no replacement for him at all, they've gone with Haladay who's fine, BVS who's probably below avg, and then basically nothing else until this Wisco game (Windmon was DE, Brule was injured). Losing Snow was a disaster.
CB: Speed doesn't have any, heyo! He's lost out there, doesn't have any physicality on the edge. Brantley is decent, but he's so small. He tries to be physical, but if he comes into contact with the WR at any point he goes flying. If not, he can actually stay with the WR better than anyone else. Other guys were emergency transfers last year who haven't proved to be any good, so they were replaced with an emergency transfer this year!
Safety: Angelo Grose is the worst player on this team by a m-i-l-e. The gap between him and the next worst player is insane. He takes the worst angles to every play, he can't cover anyone. He alone is responsible for probably a dozen TDs and busts so far this year. And I maintain that if Henderson/Snow were healthy all year Grose would have been benched a long time ago. As it stands now, Henderson/Brooks is our best safety pairing - neither is super fast, but Henderson is smart, and Brooks is an absolute hitter. Grose has slid into that slot/hybrid role that I think would have been Snow if healthy. Dillon Tatum played a ton last week, that was kinda fun! He dropped an absolute gift INT, but hopefully we see his time increase and Grose's decrease. Hopefully Henderson tutelage + consistent time for Brooks/Tatum helps us. EDIT: I can't believe I forgot Jaden Mangham, who playing time was increasing, leading to a start vs OSU, and getting carted off the field with a neck injury (I believe he's fine but didn't play vs Wisconsin and I assume they'll be cautious with). So just more turnover and inconsistency. Hopefully Henderson/Brooks/Tatum/Mangham can improve.
Overall - really hard to judge MSUs season so far, but they're probably really bad. It's a unit that could have really used some continuity, but with a dozen different injuries and shuffling no one knows what they're supposed to be doing. I don't think the 4-3 is the solution overall, I think that was more Wisconsin specific. But with a run heavy Michigan maybe it'll stick around a bit.
Yeah I was a big Collins fan in 2019 when he was the starter, I think he's lost a step since but still can make 1 player miss, which for MSU is the difference between ... a 2 yard loss and no gain. Berger doesn't seem to have that vision or shifty-ness.
But many people are saying Collins is the best back playing in the game this weekend. Lots of people
I like to wait until the FFFFs to post my thoughts on the game:
- Our OL is so, so, so bad. In the spring we didn't have 5 guys healthy enough to go 11v11, and that should have been a red flag. Horst (LT) and Carrick (RG) weren't medically cleared until the fall, and they immediately passed any other options, which is pretty terrifying.
- RBs have been okay. Berger can get a little more than what's blocked, Collins is okay. Broussard has had 2 big knee injuries since HS, and doesn't look like the former Pac12 player of the year he once was.
- WR/TE: Reed has essentially missed 2 games (2nd half of WMU and Akron, full Washington) and since he's gotten healthy you've seen how he can help the offense vs OSU and Wisconsin. Coleman is fun, still definitely learning how to be WR, but has that basketball skill to just go get something. They seriously under-use Barker and Carr. Those two provide a ton that Hunt doesn't, Hunt doesn't really do things they can't.
- QB: Thorne has not been as good this year. Losing KW3 hurts the flow, but I think the biggest issue for him was losing both Nailor and healthy Reed from last year. Without either, the bomb-it-all-the-time passing offense really bogged down. Now that Reed is healthy, that offense is back a little bit. He's made some bad decisions independent of that, but hopefully is finding his comfort level again.
Overall - the offense is limited because they can't run block or pass block, and the passing offense is predicated on deep shots that can't develop when the QB is running for his life.
yeah - basically this. I think their injuries this year have been underrated, but the core problems from the team are two of the (in season at least) healthier position groups.
----------------
How upset should I be at the performances, when:
Our top 4 DTs have missed games or left one of the Minny/Maryland games to not return.
2 of our top 3 DEs are in walking boots.
One of, if not our best LB was lost for the season 1st half of week 1.
Our best defensive back has been out since the first half of week 1.
Our explosive offense was predicated on Jayden Reed being good, but he's had foot, back, ankle injuries all fall and missed the Washington game.
---------------
In hindsight - not having 5 healthy OL in the spring to even run 1s vs 1s was a pretty big red flag we ignored.
For MSU - the question is if they're good but not clicking, or struggling.
Our top 3 RBs don't have a carry for loss this year. We've scored 35 and 52 points. But there's only been like 2-3 drives that have felt easy. Everything feels off. Thorne has been missing receivers, but is it a real problem, or just a blip?
Defensively, the pass rush looks improved, but the back 7 seems the same (and is now missing 2 very important starters). And so far this year: Slade, Snow, Henderson, Grose have all left injured (Slade and Grose came back), and Jalen Hunt hasn't played yet. So for two games against easier foes, we've come out really damaged.
late replying to this, but yeah he's a huge loss for us.
He's our starting (only?) hybrid space player type object. Moved from safety this offseason. We played some 4-2-5 on Friday night with him as one of the 2 LBs. Once he went out it was more traditional LBs (Haladay, Brule) along side STARTING LB BEN VANSUMEREN.
I'm more worried though about the loss of Xavier Henderson, because I think Grose is bad, so losing the one good Safety and relying more on the guy I'm not too high on is scary.
Definitely not fun to lose your two most vocal leaders on defense in the 1st half of the 1st game.
My dad was a cop in Lansing for 26 years. There was a bakery he used to go to all the time, because the baker would start at 2a to be ready for the day, and he'd give out a free donut and coffee to cops for the company - and probably the visibility that he wasn't alone.
So I've always thought the cops+donuts thing was tied to things like that, where there aren't a lot of restaurants open at 4am but they knew a guy who'd give out a donut or two.
I think the MGoFan's perception of Izzo is clouded by the thought that he recruits highly rated players, when in reality he gets a ton of guys in the 50-100 range, with a few exceptions at the top. And for the most part - guys in the 50-100 range aren't going to be NBA players. Like - there's nothing he could do to make Nick Ward (42nd in his class) an NBA player, but he probably maximized his college abilities.
(I do agree with the first poster that some of the growth in guys like McQuaid and the ones I mentioned could just be becoming upperclassmen)
Is there a recent player (whether highly regarded or less so) who demonstrably improved under Izzo?
Look - it's fun to rag on Izzo. But last year alone, Hoggard and Bingham (for him it was really '21 and '22 vs '19 and '20) were significantly better than they were previously.
in '21 Aaron Henry took a huge leap from what he was his first two years.
Yeah - the federal govt cares very little about these 100 people. They'd be more concerned about the 600k others getting jobs under the loophole they create. But who knows, I'm sure if a group of universities pushed a little they could get a group of senators to make a change
States cannot decide that people here on student visas can suddenly do things outside what's allowed on that visa.
From what I see on reddit - the UK issue is that not only does Tshiebwe want to earn that money now, but he wants to access it now to bring is mom to the US. Seems like UK might have figured out a solution to earning the money, but accessing it might violate his visa status.
The federal govt I'm sure is not concerned with the conflict this has for the <100 people who can't earn NIL when compared to the 600k student visas the US approves each year.
-------
plus from what I've read it seems like the Kentucky bill is signing into law something similar to their governors executive order from last summer. I don't think that'll be radically different from what Michigan, Ohio, California, FL, etc. did last year.
-------
For Houstan/Diabate - they might not have as much of a need to access it now while they're in school so maybe that changes their equation. But if they're here on student visas they'll hit the same issues
edit: as part of applying for a student visa, this is part of the form. I wonder what UK is doing to meet these restrictions:
EMPLOYMENT. Unlawful employment in the United States is a reason for
terminating your F-1 status and deporting you from the United States. You may
be employed on campus at your school. You may be employed off-campus in
curricular practical training (CPT) if you have written permission from your
DSO. You may apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for
off-campus employment authorization in three circumstances: 1) employment
with an international organization; 2) severe and unexpected economic hardship;
and 3) optional practical training (OPT) related to your degree. You must have
written authorization from USCIS before you begin work. Contact your DSO for
details. Your spouse or child (F-2 classification) may not work in the United
States
PENALTY. To maintain your nonimmigrant student status, you must: 1)
remain a full-time student at your authorized school; 2) engage only in
authorized employment; and 3) keep your passport valid. Failure to comply with
these regulations will result in the loss of your student status and subject you to
deportation.
Clink is almost guaranteed Co-DC role I think because the contract he signed last year said he'd be given that title if they were a top-25 passing defense last year. They were ~20th in pass YPG, ~10th in opponent QB Rating. Not sure what metric they're officially looking at for Pass D, but it's probably a top-25 unit regardless
Basically there's just too much interference. And 110k people is more than 75k or whatever the bowl game was. But when everyone has a phone that's looking for signal, there sheer amount of requests being made will bog down the networks.
These networks are improving all the time... but so is the increase in the demand for data (trying to stream a highlight from your seat or place a bet on a game weren't issues a decade ago)
I loved Aaron Henry, but I think you're underestimating how bad the backcourt was last year.
Watts was probably the worst starting PG in the country, Loyer and Hoggard were even worse. Walker is immediately an upgrade there, and Hoggard year 2 will be better than Hoggard year 1. (how much of Watts struggles related to him needing offseason hip surgery? Maybe a ton, hope he can play well for Miss St)
Langford was the worst 5 star prospect I've ever seen. His freshman year he got a breakaway and couldn't jump high enough to dunk. His last 2 seasons he averaged 2 shots at the rim and 2 FTs a game. Just no explosion, and a sub-100 Ortg last year. If we're replacing him with a 1st-round pick type player, that's a huge upgrade.
Backups: We're replacing Loyer and Jack Hoiberg with Jaden Akins. So at the very least, he's 5 inches taller and way more athletic.
So Brown is a downgrade from Henry, but the hope for MSU is that the improvement of the guards will make everything else flow smoothly.
(I didn't even get into how much better MSU was in the 2nd half of the season because they played Bingham/Marble/Sissoko and benched Kithier)
The Jenkins call are fricking kidding me, he didn't pancake him, he grabbed from behind and tackled him on that play.
I would say that Horst isn't tackling, because he's not out of position and lunging. He's driving his feet and intentionally trying to push Jenkins into the ground. That Jenkins loses his balance and falls doesn't make this a hold.
What I'm saying is that you're a fan and miss things that positively impacted you, and I do to because I'm also a fan! Which is why, over the course of a game, they all tend to even themselves out.
The only thing that I think is outside the normal amount of missed calls is the overturned TD on the fumble.
Okay fine, I didn't want to get into an argument about this, but here we are. DPI is:
"Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass."
A ref watching this play, seeing a defensive player hit a picking WR as he's running to cover a different player, is not going to see intent. So you want a ref to call a PI on a play that doesn't meet the criteria for your feelings? (If you want to complain that it's not a pick, they're all "not picks" technically. Plausible deniability is how mesh routes survive!)
---------------
Thorne had a 10 yard scramble wiped out by a hold on Hutchinson. It's close, toss up call, fine, 1st and 20 and MSU has to punt that drive. Next Michigan possession McNamara scrambles for 20 yards, I would like to have had the same call on #77 who was holding Slade. Michigan scores the TD to Sainristil on that drive. So Michigan benefited greatly from that missed holding call. (MSU play at 10:27 in the 3rd Quarter)
MSU got another holding penalty the first play after the JJ/Corum fumble. Kris Jenkins gets pancaked on a run but the officials throw a flag. 1st and 18 now for MSU (they convert anyway)
But this is my point. Fans are not objectively analyzing every single person on every single play. Fans are clinging to things that fit how they feel. It's taken me 10 minutes to find these two plays on my DVR because I remember them, I don't remember the 100s of correct calls in that game or the calls that went my way
--------------
Oh, here's a missed 15 yard personal foul that took me 5 minutes to find that I didn't see any Michigan fans complaining about the refereeing for. Surely a Michigan Man wouldn't be trying to injure an opposing player, right? https://twitter.com/BemusedSpartan/status/1454913978325471233?s=20
Haha. I think the only bad call was the fumble overturn. I think he was down and should have been ruled that way on the field actually. But replay can't swing a call from 55-45 one way to 55-45 the other way. It needs to be conclusive and I don't think that was. I agreed with the Fox guy who said they were trying to re-officiate the call
Other calls - DPI, lack of holds, etc., you're selectively looking at calls that didn't go your way, and not taking into account the calls that did go your way.
The commissioners walk-on son isn't changing how officials judge the game, give me a break
Live I thought Cade made good throws in clean pockets. On the rewatch, man he made some really great throws with a lot of pressure around him. Incredible day by him. The floater over a dropping DE to the tight end made me the most upset.
I thought MSU did a good job against the run game which I didn't think they'd be able to. The DL was good enough that the LBs were able to find their right fits, not a given for either of them this year. Outside of Haskins 24y run, it was ~3.5YPC from the RBs, a big step down. But when you're only the 2nd and 3rd best RBs in conference, sometimes that happens.
-----
Editing this to say one thing about Cade: Saying he takes what the defense gives him is - while good - part of his problem so far. Good QBs don't always do that, they also hit throws that the defense DOESN'T want them to. Thinking about Cade vs Connor Cook's career. Cook didn't complete a high percentage and threw some terrible INTs, but he was also going to throw the ball where he wanted defense be damned. A little more gunslinger in Cade would help overall I think.
I think we're a rightful underdog, because I think we're a top-15/20 team, not a top-10 one. I think our OL and DL can get pushed around a bit, so my biggest concern is that on offense we just can't get any rhythm going all game. On D, Michigan will probably try to grind it out and I think will find some success. I don't think MSUs pass D is as bad as most on here do, but I could see getting killed by 1000 paper cuts.
Trusting the guy who is friends with one side of the story is an interesting choice.
It's not borne out by the legal process, where Blackwell had all his lawsuits tossed. It's also not borne out by the Jones Day report, where Blackwell talked to the 3 rapists and their families, and didn't report anything from that to MSU. He wasn't fired, his contract ran out and it wasn't renewed.
He acted out of their best interests (not MSUs, and since he'd known Corley for a decade I'm not sure I blame him), and because of that he lost his job.
Yeah - I agree with the OP that I don't think MSUs run defense is good enough. The DTs are all disruptive (they go 5 deep there pretty easily), but also can get moved around a bit. Beesley had become a really good DE, but had a huge ankle sprain against Neb, I wouldn't expect him back. Pietrowski is a fun pass rusher, but is only 6'1" so really undersized for a DE trying to hold up against the run.
The LBs are heat seeking missiles in the run game.... but a little misdirection and they're going to run themselves out of the play. That's why Grose and Henderson have so many tackles each game.
The CBs were going to be a weak spot barring a miracle. In spring practice, there was one scholarship CB. It's a place we've brought in I think 4 transfers. For the most part they have played some really, really soft coverage all year, but when they've needed to they've stuck to receivers. Both the starters have now had huge INTs. The biggest busted plays of the season have come against backup safeties in nickel coverage. The CBs have been better in the last 3 weeks than weeks prior, which is probably expected for guys who just got to MSU this summer. I wonder how vanilla MSUs defense has been just so those guys could get up to speed.
------
One thing interesting/frustrating, MSU has played a lot of guys with broken hands. Grose/Slade/Barrow all have played in casts, and it's been really frustrating to watch them miss tackles (DTs) and INTS (Grose) because they could only get a club on the ball. All those guys are getting healthy, and Slade's production has really shown without the cast on.
------
Ultimately I do think Michigan can have success running the ball. MSU likes to only have 6 in the box, sometimes 7 with Henderson coming down, but I don't think the front 4 is quite good enough to consistently stop the run. IF they can, the pressure is going to get to Cade in passing downs, but that's a big if.
My biggest fear in this game is MSUs OL getting destroyed. They're not good, and their numbers are propped up by Walker making 2 yard losses 3 yard gains out of nothing. Interestingly, MSU doesn't rotate 1 O-lineman at a time, they really have 2 OLs. After the starters, they bring in 4 new OL. The 2nd unit is a little better run blocking (Samac is a better blocker than Allen), but that's kind of a tell.
This Nebraska game was Thorne's worst by far. He was double clutching everything, taking bad sacks, etc. He had no trust in what he was seeing. The INT he threw up was bad, but as someone in the stadium - there was a lot of wind in his face at the time. MSU and Neb didn't throw much heading that direction anymore until it calmed down in the second half. For his running - he's not quick, so it takes him 3-4 strides to get up to speed. That's borne out in the sacks too, he doesn't really wiggle out of anything or scoot out of a small opening in the pocket.
In the Dantonio era we really struggled against 3-4 Ds, it messed with our blocking schemes a lot. I hope it's different now, but time will tell.
The WRs are really good, 1 of the three will have a good game. Mosley has been good this year compared to my expectations, and is surprisingly fast. They're all fairly small though, I've wanted to see more Fitzpatrick or Coleman who are both 6'4", especially in the RZ.
Heyward is a legit fat RB turned TE and it's awesome. He's not a great blocker, but he has a lot more juke in him than a normal TE when he gets the ball.
------
The offense for MSU has only really bogged down for 4 quarters though. The 2nd half against Nebraska (12 yards), and the 1st half against IU (40 yards). Outside of that, they've been explosive and usually efficient.
------
Overall I think the OL is going to be too big of an issue for MSU to overcome. I hope Walker (the best RB in the B1G) can make a few plays, but he'll be dodging people in the backfield all game long.
I'll jump in here to say 2 things about the defense:
- raw total passing stats have them in the bottom 30 of CFB, because they're playing like 80-90 plays a game. per play stats have them I think in the 40-50 range.
- MSU might have the most disruptive defense in the B1G. They're ahead of Michigan in: TFL/Sacks/INTs/PBU/QB hits/fumbles forced/fumbles recovered. Compared to OSU/PSU, they still lead in everything except PBUs and INTs.
So, eventually MSU is counting on forcing a 3rd and 10+ in a drive to end it. They're CBs play off more than I'd like, but the system has worked so far.
Their stadium experience is no different than anyone else.
--------
I lived there for 5 years, if you're going, I recommend:
The Great Dane
The Old Fashioned
Tipsy Cow (best fries and wings I had in Madison, right on capital square)
The Nitty Gritty (burger bar)
Union Terrace
Greenbush Bakery for donuts
Marigold Kitchen for breakfast (be prepared to wait)
--------
The Zoo is pretty good, I always loved the Vilas Park area in general (https://goo.gl/maps/YM6tYL61RumMTH86A)
The farmers market on Saturdays around the capital is really nice too. Find a place with jalapeno cheese bread and thank me later. (https://www.dcfm.org/markets/saturday-on-the-square)
Their state street is a semi-closed road (only buses, police, etc allowed to drive), full of restaurants and bars, leading from campus to the capital. A pretty fun walk with a view.
And it's not hard to think 18-22 year olds play harder for a guy they like. But probably from an Xs and Os standpoint, they probably chose to downgrade
I think Michigan's offense overall will be fine. Too many bullets in the chamber for them all to be duds. I do think Moore as the OL coach is an enormous risk.
I really take issue with this:
What I wanted to say is he’s done an excellent job on the coaching front—we were talking about using Erick All at receiver until Moore taught him how to block
Because All being a receiver who couldn't block was the exact opposite of his recruiting profile.
Hello post: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/hello-erick-all
FBO on him: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/future-blue-originals-erick-all
Recruiting recap: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/2019-recruiting-erick-all
ALL mention how he's a extremely physical and willing blocker. Moore probably deserves some credit for translating that to the field, but how much? Moore played OL in 2007, hasn't officially coached it at any level since then.
I'm still salty from when Dantonio didn't hire Warinner as OC, so maybe I think too highly of Warinner. But it seems like everyone is accepting "oh yeah that'll be a coaching downgrade" a little too easily.
If he was an elite target from the start... why were they the 18th P5 school to offer him?
If he was an elite target from the start... Michigan offered on Sept 1, 2020 (per his twitter). They offered at least 14 other OTs before then according to 24/7. Some of those might be "offers", some of those might be after other guys committed.
You're right that a lot of things happen behind the scenes that I can't see from a 24/7 profile or a twitter page... but I can see those things. And it doesn't seem like Michigan unearthed a gem earlier than anyone else
"This may end up a small class because the projects Warinner loved (Kiyaunta Goodwin, Fisher Anderson) were tied to Warinner"
Those are the #53 and #230 players on the 24/7 composite. "Projects" is trying to soften the blow of losing a really good OL coach and replacing him with an unknown OL coach, but pretty good recruiter.
---------------
"Michigan had Fitzpatrick on top of their board for two years because they’re pipelined into the Colorado training groups that Colorado linemen come from"
Before Michigan, he was offered by: Minny, Oklahoma, Auburn, Tenn, ND, TCU, Neb, Michigan St, Kansas St, Colorado, ASU, WSU, Iowa St, Utah, and a couple others. That's some "in" if they were able to be the ~15th power 5 offer the kid got.
Recent Comments
I think you and OP are both shades of incorrect. I believe it's a B1G agreement that all the scholarships are for four years:
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11666316/big-ten-guarantees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes
but it's not an NCAA thing, and I don't think there's much enforcement of it. If there's an extra scholarship for a term or something like that it can be given out as a one-off thing.
Seeing him yelling at his own team is real leadership, which is what we've all come to expect from Henderson. The big guy was Derrick Harmon fwiw
oh right - I'm definitely not saying "Crump is a victim of the lack of security preventing him from assaulting someone". He went crazy and assaulted someone, and should probably be charged with something (IANAL).
I'm saying that in prior incidents, they didn't escalate because there were so many people around it couldn't. That wasn't true here.
As I said - the MSU players are completely in the wrong and should get whatever punishment comes their way.
Looking at how to stop this in the future, three (edit: big) games in a row -something- has happened in the tunnel. Maybe that's an anomaly, but maybe it's the new norm and Michigan should consider doing something about it. (sounds like they tried with more security for this game?)
But that's not true. There's been incidents the last 3 games with a pulse that were played there. The difference is when it took place and if there were people around to stop it. There weren't in this case. It also happened pre-game with OSU in 2013, I'm sure I could find more if I spent 10 minutes searching the internet.
Not to say MSU people couldn't have stepped up, a lot of running away from people who could've been adults and protected Green/McBurrows. I think basically only Xavier Henderson did anything from what I've seen in the videos
Was at the game, about 25y line on the home side. Pretty fun. My first football L in there (was also at the Big Chill, so overall record now 2-2)
---------------
Atmosphere thoughts:
- cute stadium, very quaint. Got really loud a few times, but was clear the fans didn't think there was much doubt who'd win ha.
- Loved the pregame pass-punt-kick competition for the gift cards, and the timeout where the girl had to catch punts from the jug machine for a gift card.
- Mr Brightside light show was okay. Cool concept, but a) kinda wished they'd turned off the lights, or dimmed them at least. MSU does during it's 3rd-4th quarter break. b) did they tell people to download the app any time prior to 15 seconds before they played the music? If so I missed it, as did most people around me.
- didn't have cell reception from the time I was within about .25 of the stadium until the mid-2nd quarter.
---------------
Game thoughts:
- there cannot be a person alive, MSUs OC included, that thought either 4th down running play would be successful. Like, holy shit man. You watch this OL for 7 games and thought "yeah, they'll get a push"? I'm losing patience with the all-bombs offense. With Coleman/Reed taking a lot of attention, any underneath stuff could be successful.
- disagree on OPI on the TD play
- otherwise, not a lot to say about MSUs offense. It cannot do anything consistently because the OL is consistently awful.
---------------
Tunnel thoughts:
- No saving the MSU players. Suspend them, let the county prosecute them, whatever. It's probably not a coincidence that position groups walked off the field together, but for those keeping track it's 4 DEs (Young, Brown, Wright, Windmon), 4 DBs (White, Grose, Jones, Crump) who were involved (so far).
- I saw a lot of security and police in the footage that's been released, so I'd think criminal charges would be pretty well founded by reliable 1st hand accounts of what happened. I kinda doubt anyone gets charged for the McBurrows stuff, but I'd suspect Crump and possibly Windmon do for the Green stuff.
- No one on here will like it, but James Franklin is right. Part of the issue is the proximity to each other. The thing that saved the OSU/PSU events from being a fight is that they happened at halftime, where teams are separated by officials and a bunch of other people. At the end of the game that didn't exist, the refs are gone.
Yeah, that was an absolute disaster. No one in the stadium thought the FG was going to be made.
I wonder if the play was to audible to that if it was soft coverage vs running up the middle? Because Reed had a cushion on who was defending him, but the outside corner came in like a bullet. I think overall it was just a stupid, low value, high risk play. The bigger coaching mistake was taking their 2 timeouts on 1st and 2nd down instead of saving one for right before the kick, knowing you have a bad kicker and snapper.
We…
RE: special teams
We switched from a right footed kicker to a left footed one after 3 games, who then missed his FG attempt. Then when they went back to the right footed kicker in the same game, I'm almost positive our long snapper forgot which side the holder would be on and sailed it way wide. WHEEEEEEEEEEEE
Also our starting long snapper has been out injured for OSU and Wisconsin, so we're on our back up there too.
Yeah - Tucker was just in emergency-grab-anyone mode and took three flyers, all of whom haven't panned out
DL: DTs Slade, Barrow, Hansen, and Hunt have all missed at least one game (I think Harmon has been healthy for all). 2nd and 3rd DEs Bogle and Pietrowski have now been out several weeks. Dunn was hurt against Wisconsin. So how harsh can the criticisms be of the players on the field when it's not anything like it was projected to be? Mallory shifted from DT to DE against Wisconsin, I think mainly just to combat their bulk, so maybe we see that again. Wright doesn't get a ton of consistent pressure at DE when he's in.
LB: have been bad. the opening snap of the season was BVS and Snow, so functionally like a 4-1-6. With Snow gone and no replacement for him at all, they've gone with Haladay who's fine, BVS who's probably below avg, and then basically nothing else until this Wisco game (Windmon was DE, Brule was injured). Losing Snow was a disaster.
CB: Speed doesn't have any, heyo! He's lost out there, doesn't have any physicality on the edge. Brantley is decent, but he's so small. He tries to be physical, but if he comes into contact with the WR at any point he goes flying. If not, he can actually stay with the WR better than anyone else. Other guys were emergency transfers last year who haven't proved to be any good, so they were replaced with an emergency transfer this year!
Safety: Angelo Grose is the worst player on this team by a m-i-l-e. The gap between him and the next worst player is insane. He takes the worst angles to every play, he can't cover anyone. He alone is responsible for probably a dozen TDs and busts so far this year. And I maintain that if Henderson/Snow were healthy all year Grose would have been benched a long time ago. As it stands now, Henderson/Brooks is our best safety pairing - neither is super fast, but Henderson is smart, and Brooks is an absolute hitter. Grose has slid into that slot/hybrid role that I think would have been Snow if healthy. Dillon Tatum played a ton last week, that was kinda fun! He dropped an absolute gift INT, but hopefully we see his time increase and Grose's decrease. Hopefully Henderson tutelage + consistent time for Brooks/Tatum helps us. EDIT: I can't believe I forgot Jaden Mangham, who playing time was increasing, leading to a start vs OSU, and getting carted off the field with a neck injury (I believe he's fine but didn't play vs Wisconsin and I assume they'll be cautious with). So just more turnover and inconsistency. Hopefully Henderson/Brooks/Tatum/Mangham can improve.
Overall - really hard to judge MSUs season so far, but they're probably really bad. It's a unit that could have really used some continuity, but with a dozen different injuries and shuffling no one knows what they're supposed to be doing. I don't think the 4-3 is the solution overall, I think that was more Wisconsin specific. But with a run heavy Michigan maybe it'll stick around a bit.
True - but they also got murdered by OSU in 2020 and 2021 and beat Michigan. So it's not necessarily indicative of how these two team matchup.
Though I think the real difference is that Michigan is unlikely to let JJ cook like OSU lets CJ Stroud
Yeah I was a big Collins fan in 2019 when he was the starter, I think he's lost a step since but still can make 1 player miss, which for MSU is the difference between ... a 2 yard loss and no gain. Berger doesn't seem to have that vision or shifty-ness.
But many people are saying Collins is the best back playing in the game this weekend. Lots of people
I like to wait until the FFFFs to post my thoughts on the game:
- Our OL is so, so, so bad. In the spring we didn't have 5 guys healthy enough to go 11v11, and that should have been a red flag. Horst (LT) and Carrick (RG) weren't medically cleared until the fall, and they immediately passed any other options, which is pretty terrifying.
- RBs have been okay. Berger can get a little more than what's blocked, Collins is okay. Broussard has had 2 big knee injuries since HS, and doesn't look like the former Pac12 player of the year he once was.
- WR/TE: Reed has essentially missed 2 games (2nd half of WMU and Akron, full Washington) and since he's gotten healthy you've seen how he can help the offense vs OSU and Wisconsin. Coleman is fun, still definitely learning how to be WR, but has that basketball skill to just go get something. They seriously under-use Barker and Carr. Those two provide a ton that Hunt doesn't, Hunt doesn't really do things they can't.
- QB: Thorne has not been as good this year. Losing KW3 hurts the flow, but I think the biggest issue for him was losing both Nailor and healthy Reed from last year. Without either, the bomb-it-all-the-time passing offense really bogged down. Now that Reed is healthy, that offense is back a little bit. He's made some bad decisions independent of that, but hopefully is finding his comfort level again.
Overall - the offense is limited because they can't run block or pass block, and the passing offense is predicated on deep shots that can't develop when the QB is running for his life.
yeah - basically this. I think their injuries this year have been underrated, but the core problems from the team are two of the (in season at least) healthier position groups.
----------------
How upset should I be at the performances, when:
Our top 4 DTs have missed games or left one of the Minny/Maryland games to not return.
2 of our top 3 DEs are in walking boots.
One of, if not our best LB was lost for the season 1st half of week 1.
Our best defensive back has been out since the first half of week 1.
Our explosive offense was predicated on Jayden Reed being good, but he's had foot, back, ankle injuries all fall and missed the Washington game.
---------------
In hindsight - not having 5 healthy OL in the spring to even run 1s vs 1s was a pretty big red flag we ignored.
Brandon Bouyer-Randle was part of the Dantonio's-demise class (aka 2016). Amazing to see guys from then still in CFB.
Only 2 of the top-10 recruits in that class finished their careers at MSU.
For MSU - the question is if they're good but not clicking, or struggling.
Our top 3 RBs don't have a carry for loss this year. We've scored 35 and 52 points. But there's only been like 2-3 drives that have felt easy. Everything feels off. Thorne has been missing receivers, but is it a real problem, or just a blip?
Defensively, the pass rush looks improved, but the back 7 seems the same (and is now missing 2 very important starters). And so far this year: Slade, Snow, Henderson, Grose have all left injured (Slade and Grose came back), and Jalen Hunt hasn't played yet. So for two games against easier foes, we've come out really damaged.
Hopping in here to state for the record that the 2019 MSU offense getting 11 cyan's is absurd, they should have had 7, maybe 8 at most
late replying to this, but yeah he's a huge loss for us.
He's our starting (only?) hybrid space player type object. Moved from safety this offseason. We played some 4-2-5 on Friday night with him as one of the 2 LBs. Once he went out it was more traditional LBs (Haladay, Brule) along side STARTING LB BEN VANSUMEREN.
I'm more worried though about the loss of Xavier Henderson, because I think Grose is bad, so losing the one good Safety and relying more on the guy I'm not too high on is scary.
Definitely not fun to lose your two most vocal leaders on defense in the 1st half of the 1st game.
My dad was a cop in Lansing for 26 years. There was a bakery he used to go to all the time, because the baker would start at 2a to be ready for the day, and he'd give out a free donut and coffee to cops for the company - and probably the visibility that he wasn't alone.
So I've always thought the cops+donuts thing was tied to things like that, where there aren't a lot of restaurants open at 4am but they knew a guy who'd give out a donut or two.
Bball: Breslin, Crisler, Kohl
Fball: Spartan Stadium, Big House, Camp Randall
I think the MGoFan's perception of Izzo is clouded by the thought that he recruits highly rated players, when in reality he gets a ton of guys in the 50-100 range, with a few exceptions at the top. And for the most part - guys in the 50-100 range aren't going to be NBA players. Like - there's nothing he could do to make Nick Ward (42nd in his class) an NBA player, but he probably maximized his college abilities.
(I do agree with the first poster that some of the growth in guys like McQuaid and the ones I mentioned could just be becoming upperclassmen)
Look - it's fun to rag on Izzo. But last year alone, Hoggard and Bingham (for him it was really '21 and '22 vs '19 and '20) were significantly better than they were previously.
in '21 Aaron Henry took a huge leap from what he was his first two years.
'19 and '20 it was Tillman.
Yeah - the federal govt cares very little about these 100 people. They'd be more concerned about the 600k others getting jobs under the loophole they create. But who knows, I'm sure if a group of universities pushed a little they could get a group of senators to make a change
"related to their degree", so maybe make them all Marketing majors and try to get around it that way?
also - it has to be approved first, so these kind of flimsy justifications might just depend on who is reviewing the employment application
States cannot decide that people here on student visas can suddenly do things outside what's allowed on that visa.
From what I see on reddit - the UK issue is that not only does Tshiebwe want to earn that money now, but he wants to access it now to bring is mom to the US. Seems like UK might have figured out a solution to earning the money, but accessing it might violate his visa status.
The federal govt I'm sure is not concerned with the conflict this has for the <100 people who can't earn NIL when compared to the 600k student visas the US approves each year.
-------
plus from what I've read it seems like the Kentucky bill is signing into law something similar to their governors executive order from last summer. I don't think that'll be radically different from what Michigan, Ohio, California, FL, etc. did last year.
-------
For Houstan/Diabate - they might not have as much of a need to access it now while they're in school so maybe that changes their equation. But if they're here on student visas they'll hit the same issues
edit: as part of applying for a student visa, this is part of the form. I wonder what UK is doing to meet these restrictions:
EMPLOYMENT. Unlawful employment in the United States is a reason for
terminating your F-1 status and deporting you from the United States. You may
be employed on campus at your school. You may be employed off-campus in
curricular practical training (CPT) if you have written permission from your
DSO. You may apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for
off-campus employment authorization in three circumstances: 1) employment
with an international organization; 2) severe and unexpected economic hardship;
and 3) optional practical training (OPT) related to your degree. You must have
written authorization from USCIS before you begin work. Contact your DSO for
details. Your spouse or child (F-2 classification) may not work in the United
States
PENALTY. To maintain your nonimmigrant student status, you must: 1)
remain a full-time student at your authorized school; 2) engage only in
authorized employment; and 3) keep your passport valid. Failure to comply with
these regulations will result in the loss of your student status and subject you to
deportation.
Clink is almost guaranteed Co-DC role I think because the contract he signed last year said he'd be given that title if they were a top-25 passing defense last year. They were ~20th in pass YPG, ~10th in opponent QB Rating. Not sure what metric they're officially looking at for Pass D, but it's probably a top-25 unit regardless
Basically there's just too much interference. And 110k people is more than 75k or whatever the bowl game was. But when everyone has a phone that's looking for signal, there sheer amount of requests being made will bog down the networks.
These networks are improving all the time... but so is the increase in the demand for data (trying to stream a highlight from your seat or place a bet on a game weren't issues a decade ago)
I loved Aaron Henry, but I think you're underestimating how bad the backcourt was last year.
Watts was probably the worst starting PG in the country, Loyer and Hoggard were even worse. Walker is immediately an upgrade there, and Hoggard year 2 will be better than Hoggard year 1. (how much of Watts struggles related to him needing offseason hip surgery? Maybe a ton, hope he can play well for Miss St)
Langford was the worst 5 star prospect I've ever seen. His freshman year he got a breakaway and couldn't jump high enough to dunk. His last 2 seasons he averaged 2 shots at the rim and 2 FTs a game. Just no explosion, and a sub-100 Ortg last year. If we're replacing him with a 1st-round pick type player, that's a huge upgrade.
Backups: We're replacing Loyer and Jack Hoiberg with Jaden Akins. So at the very least, he's 5 inches taller and way more athletic.
So Brown is a downgrade from Henry, but the hope for MSU is that the improvement of the guards will make everything else flow smoothly.
(I didn't even get into how much better MSU was in the 2nd half of the season because they played Bingham/Marble/Sissoko and benched Kithier)
I would say that Horst isn't tackling, because he's not out of position and lunging. He's driving his feet and intentionally trying to push Jenkins into the ground. That Jenkins loses his balance and falls doesn't make this a hold.
Oh I'd be livid! Because I still remember MSU losing to Iowa in 2009 because of a phantom PI in the endzone:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/292970127
Fans remember bad plays and it sticks with them, but gloss over the marginal ones or the ones that go their way
What I'm saying is that you're a fan and miss things that positively impacted you, and I do to because I'm also a fan! Which is why, over the course of a game, they all tend to even themselves out.
The only thing that I think is outside the normal amount of missed calls is the overturned TD on the fumble.
Okay fine, I didn't want to get into an argument about this, but here we are. DPI is:
"Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass."
A ref watching this play, seeing a defensive player hit a picking WR as he's running to cover a different player, is not going to see intent. So you want a ref to call a PI on a play that doesn't meet the criteria for your feelings? (If you want to complain that it's not a pick, they're all "not picks" technically. Plausible deniability is how mesh routes survive!)
---------------
Thorne had a 10 yard scramble wiped out by a hold on Hutchinson. It's close, toss up call, fine, 1st and 20 and MSU has to punt that drive. Next Michigan possession McNamara scrambles for 20 yards, I would like to have had the same call on #77 who was holding Slade. Michigan scores the TD to Sainristil on that drive. So Michigan benefited greatly from that missed holding call. (MSU play at 10:27 in the 3rd Quarter)
MSU got another holding penalty the first play after the JJ/Corum fumble. Kris Jenkins gets pancaked on a run but the officials throw a flag. 1st and 18 now for MSU (they convert anyway)
But this is my point. Fans are not objectively analyzing every single person on every single play. Fans are clinging to things that fit how they feel. It's taken me 10 minutes to find these two plays on my DVR because I remember them, I don't remember the 100s of correct calls in that game or the calls that went my way
--------------
Oh, here's a missed 15 yard personal foul that took me 5 minutes to find that I didn't see any Michigan fans complaining about the refereeing for. Surely a Michigan Man wouldn't be trying to injure an opposing player, right?
https://twitter.com/BemusedSpartan/status/1454913978325471233?s=20
Haha. I think the…
Never!
Haha. I think the only bad call was the fumble overturn. I think he was down and should have been ruled that way on the field actually. But replay can't swing a call from 55-45 one way to 55-45 the other way. It needs to be conclusive and I don't think that was. I agreed with the Fox guy who said they were trying to re-officiate the call
Other calls - DPI, lack of holds, etc., you're selectively looking at calls that didn't go your way, and not taking into account the calls that did go your way.
The commissioners walk-on son isn't changing how officials judge the game, give me a break
Live I thought Cade made good throws in clean pockets. On the rewatch, man he made some really great throws with a lot of pressure around him. Incredible day by him. The floater over a dropping DE to the tight end made me the most upset.
I thought MSU did a good job against the run game which I didn't think they'd be able to. The DL was good enough that the LBs were able to find their right fits, not a given for either of them this year. Outside of Haskins 24y run, it was ~3.5YPC from the RBs, a big step down. But when you're only the 2nd and 3rd best RBs in conference, sometimes that happens.
-----
Editing this to say one thing about Cade: Saying he takes what the defense gives him is - while good - part of his problem so far. Good QBs don't always do that, they also hit throws that the defense DOESN'T want them to. Thinking about Cade vs Connor Cook's career. Cook didn't complete a high percentage and threw some terrible INTs, but he was also going to throw the ball where he wanted defense be damned. A little more gunslinger in Cade would help overall I think.
I think we're a rightful underdog, because I think we're a top-15/20 team, not a top-10 one. I think our OL and DL can get pushed around a bit, so my biggest concern is that on offense we just can't get any rhythm going all game. On D, Michigan will probably try to grind it out and I think will find some success. I don't think MSUs pass D is as bad as most on here do, but I could see getting killed by 1000 paper cuts.
Having said that: MSU 27-Michigan 17 LFGGGGGGGG
Trusting the guy who is friends with one side of the story is an interesting choice.
It's not borne out by the legal process, where Blackwell had all his lawsuits tossed. It's also not borne out by the Jones Day report, where Blackwell talked to the 3 rapists and their families, and didn't report anything from that to MSU. He wasn't fired, his contract ran out and it wasn't renewed.
He acted out of their best interests (not MSUs, and since he'd known Corley for a decade I'm not sure I blame him), and because of that he lost his job.
I'll be there
Yeah - I agree with the OP that I don't think MSUs run defense is good enough. The DTs are all disruptive (they go 5 deep there pretty easily), but also can get moved around a bit. Beesley had become a really good DE, but had a huge ankle sprain against Neb, I wouldn't expect him back. Pietrowski is a fun pass rusher, but is only 6'1" so really undersized for a DE trying to hold up against the run.
The LBs are heat seeking missiles in the run game.... but a little misdirection and they're going to run themselves out of the play. That's why Grose and Henderson have so many tackles each game.
The CBs were going to be a weak spot barring a miracle. In spring practice, there was one scholarship CB. It's a place we've brought in I think 4 transfers. For the most part they have played some really, really soft coverage all year, but when they've needed to they've stuck to receivers. Both the starters have now had huge INTs. The biggest busted plays of the season have come against backup safeties in nickel coverage. The CBs have been better in the last 3 weeks than weeks prior, which is probably expected for guys who just got to MSU this summer. I wonder how vanilla MSUs defense has been just so those guys could get up to speed.
------
One thing interesting/frustrating, MSU has played a lot of guys with broken hands. Grose/Slade/Barrow all have played in casts, and it's been really frustrating to watch them miss tackles (DTs) and INTS (Grose) because they could only get a club on the ball. All those guys are getting healthy, and Slade's production has really shown without the cast on.
------
Ultimately I do think Michigan can have success running the ball. MSU likes to only have 6 in the box, sometimes 7 with Henderson coming down, but I don't think the front 4 is quite good enough to consistently stop the run. IF they can, the pressure is going to get to Cade in passing downs, but that's a big if.
Man - that was some story about Curtis Blackwell. Shame it's not based on facts in any way shape or form
My biggest fear…
Hello all!
My biggest fear in this game is MSUs OL getting destroyed. They're not good, and their numbers are propped up by Walker making 2 yard losses 3 yard gains out of nothing. Interestingly, MSU doesn't rotate 1 O-lineman at a time, they really have 2 OLs. After the starters, they bring in 4 new OL. The 2nd unit is a little better run blocking (Samac is a better blocker than Allen), but that's kind of a tell.
This Nebraska game was Thorne's worst by far. He was double clutching everything, taking bad sacks, etc. He had no trust in what he was seeing. The INT he threw up was bad, but as someone in the stadium - there was a lot of wind in his face at the time. MSU and Neb didn't throw much heading that direction anymore until it calmed down in the second half. For his running - he's not quick, so it takes him 3-4 strides to get up to speed. That's borne out in the sacks too, he doesn't really wiggle out of anything or scoot out of a small opening in the pocket.
In the Dantonio era we really struggled against 3-4 Ds, it messed with our blocking schemes a lot. I hope it's different now, but time will tell.
The WRs are really good, 1 of the three will have a good game. Mosley has been good this year compared to my expectations, and is surprisingly fast. They're all fairly small though, I've wanted to see more Fitzpatrick or Coleman who are both 6'4", especially in the RZ.
Heyward is a legit fat RB turned TE and it's awesome. He's not a great blocker, but he has a lot more juke in him than a normal TE when he gets the ball.
------
The offense for MSU has only really bogged down for 4 quarters though. The 2nd half against Nebraska (12 yards), and the 1st half against IU (40 yards). Outside of that, they've been explosive and usually efficient.
------
Overall I think the OL is going to be too big of an issue for MSU to overcome. I hope Walker (the best RB in the B1G) can make a few plays, but he'll be dodging people in the backfield all game long.
I'll jump in here to say 2 things about the defense:
- raw total passing stats have them in the bottom 30 of CFB, because they're playing like 80-90 plays a game. per play stats have them I think in the 40-50 range.
- MSU might have the most disruptive defense in the B1G. They're ahead of Michigan in: TFL/Sacks/INTs/PBU/QB hits/fumbles forced/fumbles recovered. Compared to OSU/PSU, they still lead in everything except PBUs and INTs.
So, eventually MSU is counting on forcing a 3rd and 10+ in a drive to end it. They're CBs play off more than I'd like, but the system has worked so far.
…
Yes it's a very fun town.
Their stadium experience is no different than anyone else.
--------
I lived there for 5 years, if you're going, I recommend:
The Great Dane
The Old Fashioned
Tipsy Cow (best fries and wings I had in Madison, right on capital square)
The Nitty Gritty (burger bar)
Union Terrace
Greenbush Bakery for donuts
Marigold Kitchen for breakfast (be prepared to wait)
--------
The Zoo is pretty good, I always loved the Vilas Park area in general (https://goo.gl/maps/YM6tYL61RumMTH86A)
The farmers market on Saturdays around the capital is really nice too. Find a place with jalapeno cheese bread and thank me later. (https://www.dcfm.org/markets/saturday-on-the-square)
Their state street is a semi-closed road (only buses, police, etc allowed to drive), full of restaurants and bars, leading from campus to the capital. A pretty fun walk with a view.
Agreed, this is not a Michigan-only problem.
MSU ran Lewerke a lot in year 1. Once he was an "established starter" they stopped doing that to protect him... and it made everything worse.
I've seen that here, and seems reasonable.
And it's not hard to think 18-22 year olds play harder for a guy they like. But probably from an Xs and Os standpoint, they probably chose to downgrade
I think Michigan's offense overall will be fine. Too many bullets in the chamber for them all to be duds. I do think Moore as the OL coach is an enormous risk.
I really take issue with this:
Because All being a receiver who couldn't block was the exact opposite of his recruiting profile.
Hello post: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/hello-erick-all
FBO on him: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/future-blue-originals-erick-all
Recruiting recap: https://www.mgoblog.com/content/2019-recruiting-erick-all
ALL mention how he's a extremely physical and willing blocker. Moore probably deserves some credit for translating that to the field, but how much? Moore played OL in 2007, hasn't officially coached it at any level since then.
I'm still salty from when Dantonio didn't hire Warinner as OC, so maybe I think too highly of Warinner. But it seems like everyone is accepting "oh yeah that'll be a coaching downgrade" a little too easily.
It's a big disparity when you figure the cheapest sports are probably a minimum of ~500k a year to support.
Also, schools within conferences don't even have the same sports. For example - Wisconsin doesn't have a baseball team
If he was an elite target from the start... why were they the 18th P5 school to offer him?
If he was an elite target from the start... Michigan offered on Sept 1, 2020 (per his twitter). They offered at least 14 other OTs before then according to 24/7. Some of those might be "offers", some of those might be after other guys committed.
You're right that a lot of things happen behind the scenes that I can't see from a 24/7 profile or a twitter page... but I can see those things. And it doesn't seem like Michigan unearthed a gem earlier than anyone else
A lot of this reads like MGoFanFiction, not reality.
Michigan and Harbaugh are outworking everyone? That's not backed up by non-Michigan affiliated sites.
Michigan article on Detroit recruiting (pretty fair to UM, Clinkscale positively mentioned):
https://theathletic.com/2705899/2021/07/14/michigan-recruiting-battles-who-will-control-detroit-how-good-is-dante-moore-who-recruits-the-state-best/
Ohio article where one of the big questions is why Michigan isn't doing more in the state (Clinkscale positively mentioned again):
https://theathletic.com/2697404/2021/07/12/the-battle-for-talent-in-ohio-osus-dominance-cincinnatis-emergence-kentuckys-pitch-michigans-absence/
Pennsylvania article, OSU mentioned 24 times, Michigan 2:
https://theathletic.com/2702678/2021/07/13/inside-pennsylvania-recruiting-is-penn-state-rebounding-what-drives-ohio-states-success-where-does-pitt-stand/
Texas article, OSU mentioned as big out-of-state recruiter:
https://theathletic.com/2707348/2021/07/15/texas-high-school-coaches-get-real-on-recruiting-college-coaches-they-trust-horns-vs-aggies-and-whos-invading-the-state/
If that article was written for FL, CA, or GA, will is mention Michigan? Probably? But I guarantee it'll mention OSU.
Edit - found a CA article! OSU mentioned 10+ times, Michigan mentioned once for having a good under the radar commit:
https://theathletic.com/2705858/2021/07/14/uscs-not-winning-and-uclas-not-offering-a-survey-of-californias-college-football-recruiting-power-struggles/
----------------
Those are the #53 and #230 players on the 24/7 composite. "Projects" is trying to soften the blow of losing a really good OL coach and replacing him with an unknown OL coach, but pretty good recruiter.
---------------
Before Michigan, he was offered by: Minny, Oklahoma, Auburn, Tenn, ND, TCU, Neb, Michigan St, Kansas St, Colorado, ASU, WSU, Iowa St, Utah, and a couple others. That's some "in" if they were able to be the ~15th power 5 offer the kid got.
Flattering, but I wish MSU recruited like Michigan fans think we do. Our last 5 classes on 24/7s site:
49th, 17th, 26th, 51st, 10th
I'd forgotten…
You rang?
I'd forgotten about this guy! But I think he was our first QB offer in this class. I didn't really think we'd get him.
I did think we'd get Duffy... or Marchiol... or (hopefully now) Houser.