Citrus Bowl - Optimistic takes thread
If someone had told us back in August that we would be playing Alabama in January, we would have been ecstatic.
Alabama has been an absolute juggernaut for over a decade now, and beating them could change the entire narrative around our program.
If we lose, so what? Literally no one expects us to win, so no change there. Nevermind the fact that we could easily lose to an inferior team in another "who gives a fuck bowl", like we often do. Our team should be highly motivated for this one.
Steel sharpens steel.
Go Blue!
December 8th, 2019 at 6:19 PM ^
I just don't feel getting my hopes up. The coaching staff isn't good enough.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:24 PM ^
So don’t. I say Go Fucking Blue!
December 8th, 2019 at 9:04 PM ^
You were the same way about Ohio St 2 weeks ago.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:16 PM ^
Correct. Don't you know if you just believe hard enough and cheer loud enough things will change!? We WILL beat Alabama and then all the 5 Star recruits will sign for the good guys! GO BLUE!!!
December 8th, 2019 at 9:25 PM ^
It says optimism right in the thread title. Plenty of other threads to be miserable in.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:30 PM ^
It's not misery. I'm guarding myself from misery. It's reality. I'm not real big on pretending.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:36 PM ^
Yes, we might be guilty of posting "realism" in a "optimism" thread, but it's not pessimism.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:45 PM ^
Start a realism thread then. This is the one for unicorns farting rainbows in the sky.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:54 PM ^
Ok, but why?
December 9th, 2019 at 4:19 PM ^
Why not? It's my fucking hobby. It's supposed to be fun.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:51 PM ^
Yes, I'm not pessimistic. The team hasn't been heading in a good direction since the 2016 Ohio St game. And Jim Harbaugh hasn't been the same since then. Why exactly that is, I don't know. But across the board, Michigan lacks quality and consistency. There's bright spots here and there. But it isn't consistent across the board. That's a matter of character.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:27 PM ^
It will all end happily ever after. We'll get the Disney ending. The theme song from Hoosiers is playing. What could go wrong?
Meechigan wins!
December 8th, 2019 at 6:27 PM ^
I'm not getting my hopes up either, but the way I see it, even if things go horribly wrong and we get wrecked, at least we'll know exactly where we stand.
We all expected to meet that team in the postseason by now, so here's our big chance.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:33 PM ^
We don't need to 'know where we stand'. We knew this the Saturday after Thanksgiving.
December 8th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
Exactly I know exactly where this team stands. They are very good but a long ways from elite and don’t really care to start the year watching them get destroyed by another elite team. I would have more pleasure seeing them win something like the Holiday Bowl against a PAC -12 team
December 8th, 2019 at 9:42 PM ^
Well said.
December 8th, 2019 at 7:57 PM ^
Hatter...I do like your logic. If we are going to lose to a lesser team in a Bowl game might as well lose to a team that no one thinks we have a chance against. Plus, there are always miracles. LOL
My only negative is if we get absolutely destroyed. The last two games verses quality opponents getting our doors completely blown off could really impact closing on any recruits with signing day only a month and a half away. Also, it would continue the narrative that Michigan isn't anywhere close to being an elite team.
December 8th, 2019 at 8:14 PM ^
I think we need to make changes with the defensive coaching staff like we did last year with the offense. Not because I think Brown sucks, but because his recruiting is subpar and his scheme requires 5* players to work in the Big 10.
So that would be my silver lining if we got rolled.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
"...because his recruiting is subpar and his scheme requires 5* players to work in the Big 10."
This is the only reason I've seen in the last week of shit threads that I can almost get behind. Almost. I do agree that the recruiting on defense needs to be improved. But I don't think his schemes need 5* players to work. He needs more size along the DL, and more speed in the secondary. Otherwise, his 'croots, even the lower rated 3*'s, have yielded some damn good players.
December 8th, 2019 at 10:45 PM ^
His 3* players have developed really well... for a three star. Had they spent that time coaching up a higher upside kid, the results would be much better.
Getting above average development out of three stars is how you do well at BC. It’s not how you do well at Michigan.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
at least we'll know exactly where we stand.
I'm hoping that cold, hard slap in the face will finally be enough to wake Jim Harbaugh up to the reality of the quality of his coaching staff choices.
December 8th, 2019 at 7:13 PM ^
This has so little to do w/ coaching, and is simply about players. They have more good ones.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:07 PM ^
So the coaching staff at Michigan is all fine?
December 8th, 2019 at 11:00 PM ^
That’s where most of the problems are, not the players.
December 8th, 2019 at 7:49 PM ^
"I just don't feel getting my hopes up. The coaching staff isn't good enough"
"Random Clemson Fans" after 2011 when Dabo was 0-4 vs South Carolina and calling for him to be fired.
Also "Random Clemson Fans" after 2014 when Dabo playing SOS 100 schedules still lost 2-3 games a year vs scrubs.
Harbaugh is ahead of where Dabo was year 5 at Clemson and is playing vs superior competition
December 8th, 2019 at 8:13 PM ^
Here is a rule in life...There is almost always a 0% chance you are the exception (hence why it is called "the exception"). Dabo is the "exception" and not the rule. Harbaugh is not Dabo. He doesn't have the luck of being in a Conference (ACC) that used to be amazing and currently SUCKS. For goodness sake Virginia was the second best team in their entire Conference.
Harbaugh will never turn Michigan into what Clemson is. Too many factors going against him and he has shown he cannot recruit elite players to change his narrative in Ann Arbor.
December 8th, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
And if you feel that way then go fucking root for OSU i'm sick of bitches like you who want to drag down Michigan. If you don't think anything will change then go root for a team that will and quit fucking complaining on here.
December 8th, 2019 at 8:41 PM ^
I'm sick of delusional fan boys like you that just cannot admit the facts of our situation. Harbaugh is a very good coach, but not a great Coach. He has us nothing better than the 3rd-4th best team in the B10 after 5 years. Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing that would indicate that that fact is going to change anytime soon.
Also, I am not "dragging Michigan down". Michigan's coaching and results is what is bringing Michigan down. They need no help from me.
I'm not a "glass is half full" person. I'm not a "glass is half empty person". I am a "there is exactly this much water in the glass" type of person. Deal with reality...or don't get mad at people that do.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:12 PM ^
Then Bo was a shit coach. Bo never won 10 wins 4 times in 5 years. If we win over Bama Harbaugh will have.
Maybe Michigan in General isn't what you think they are. Maybe our savior Bo was just a middle of the pack coach who won 0 National titles, Lloyd Carr Average coach who won 1 title. and Michigan as a program Average program that only claim to history is we won like 6 national titles before Pearl Harbor and then starting shitting the bed once other teams had real competition.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:20 PM ^
Bo actually did have 10-win seasons in four of five years. In fact, he had a pretty great run from '71-'80 where he won 10 games 8/10 years, with a stretch of 4 straight 10-win seasons. That WAS the last time Michigan won 10 games in 4 of 5 years ('76-'80).. that's a long fucking time, so yeah it would be great if Harbaugh did that and that is lost on a lot of people.
Bo was average? He won 79% of his games at Michigan over a 21 year career. That's average? I'll take that any day! No, he didn't win a national title, so what. 13 Big Ten titles in 21 years is NOT average. We'd take kind of production out of Harbaugh in an instant.
December 8th, 2019 at 10:00 PM ^
How many of Bo's big 10 titles were split titles..
If your counting those then Harbaugh would have 1 already.
and Harb's win rate at Michigan is .734 so that's not that far off its higher than Lloyd's
December 8th, 2019 at 10:00 PM ^
How many of Bo's big 10 titles were split titles..
If your counting those then Harbaugh would have 1 already.
and Harb's win rate at Michigan is .734 so that's not that far off its higher than Lloyd's
December 8th, 2019 at 9:31 PM ^
Bo is a "Legend" and like all "Legends" they get mythologized into something that ultimately doesn't reflect reality 100%. Bo was a very good Coach. A huge personality and left us with some great soundbites. Seemed to be a high high character coach and would be someone I would entrust my Son to. But no, Bo wasn't an elite Coach. His record was good / very good but not great.
Carr was a very good coach and an amazing recruiter. The talent on some of his teams...especially the last 2-3 was just insane. He should have done more with that talent. Eternally grateful for him and his record against OSU and the 1997 Natty. If it weren't for his actions with the RR transition, I would call him the greatest Coach of the modern Michigan era....probably still would based off his results and quality wins.
Harbaugh is, so far, another "Bo". Already a mythologized character without really earning it. Given so much slack based off of previous success at other organizations, without providing those same results at Michigan. He is often Viewed as the Savior of the program without doing anything exceptional. He has provided 9-10 win seasons that, other than beating MSU, have been pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Furthermore, he was hired to beat OSU, Win B10 titles and get us to a playoff. That was why he was hired. Period end of story. After 5 years he has failed and has Michigan in a trajectory moving away from those goals.
And don't worry about Harbaugh doing what Bo never did with the 10 win thing. We aren't beating Bama. Or at least it is so very very very very unlikely. Like so unlikely, it would be probably the biggest upset in College Football this year.
December 9th, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^
Bo's winning percentage is the 4th highest of every coach to have ever coached in D1.
Is that not great? Are only Osborne, Saban, and Bryant great coaches? Come on.
You can argue that he's overrated, or that his lack of a national championship hurts him, or whatever. But you cannot realistically contend that the 4th best person at winning games he coaches is not great.
December 8th, 2019 at 11:46 PM ^
This is a ridiculous take. First of all, they didn't play as many games in a season when Bo was coaching. In fact, the regular season expanded to 11 games in the early 70s. It didn't expand to 12 games until the mid-2000s. So it was harder to win 10 games... because you weren't playing as many games.
Second of all, the coaches you're criticizing actually beat Ohio State on a regular basis.
Third of all, they also won the Big Ten on a regular basis. Outright 9x from Bo's first season through Lloyd's last. Split 12x in that stretch.
Fourth of all, they often beat Ohio State and won the Big Ten in the same season.
Let's stop pretending like the current results are up to par with where we were during the Bo/Mo/Carr years.
December 10th, 2019 at 5:37 PM ^
I went back and looked at my list. Bo had the highest winning percentage of coaches with 200 wins. I’m not sure what his rank is amongst coaches with, say 100 wins. Lower, for sure.
But anyways, nobody is pretending his wins are as valuable as a current win over Ohio or whatever you’re arguing. But they are equal to wins of the coaches who coached at his time. And he was better than all of them except Bryant and a bit later, Osborne. Isn’t that how you measure these things? Against one’s contemporaries? If wins were so much easier then, why don’t more coaches have better records?
EDIT: Responded to the wrong comment.
December 8th, 2019 at 10:04 PM ^
Bingo. Solid response.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:09 PM ^
Enough of that "if you don't like it go root for Ohio St" stuff.
Your eyes have to be closed if you don't think there's need for change in the Michigan coaching staff. I want them to win worse than you do. I am willing to say what is wrong.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:57 PM ^
Sorry but the biggest factor going against him is that the university of Michigan is in Michigan. That’s not going to change if you hire a new coach.
Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football and we’ve all acknowledged this is the biggest difference between UM and OSU. Unfortunately, Ohio is one of the most talent-rich areas in the country and Michigan isn’t.
You know what makes recruiting suffer? Losing and coaching changes. Outside of OSU, Harbaugh isn’t losing much. I get everyone’s frustration but sooner or later some people on here need to come to the realization of what this programs actual potential is and whether or not the team is currently underachieving, meeting, or exceeding those expectations.
December 9th, 2019 at 1:13 AM ^
Good thing that a new era of college football starts in 2022 The Moneyball Era.
Michigan Dominated the "11" game era of old farts
OSU has dominated the "12" game era even if we beat them during Lloyd they have won 12 games 13 times and 6 of the last 8 years
Michigan has won 12 games 3 times in their history.
2022 starts the Moneyball era where "here comes the money" starts playing as 5 star recruits walk out and kids getting $250k summer internships will be a new norm.
December 8th, 2019 at 7:58 PM ^
Terrible take.
Don't watch then.
December 8th, 2019 at 8:13 PM ^
Its the optimistic thread and Ezekiel Elliott comments first with a baseless attack on the coaching staff. Impressive.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:14 PM ^
Yeah, there's no problems anywhere on the coaching staff. Great showing against Ohio St, two years in a row. It's 'baseless' tho think they could be better. You have an 'impressive' football mind.
December 8th, 2019 at 9:50 PM ^
Which coaches are you referring to?
December 8th, 2019 at 10:04 PM ^
That must be a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, hidden in a riddle, deciphered only by the sages.
December 9th, 2019 at 12:22 AM ^
Not really. It's a simple question.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:21 PM ^
OTOH, if we get spanked it just further reinforces the gap between the Bamas and OSUs of the world and us.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:24 PM ^
If? If there is a mercy rule, this would be the game it is applied.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:24 PM ^
Yeah, there's a lot for us to lose. When it's actual Bama AND OSU doing the spanking that's tough to overcome on the recruiting trail.
But if we can win the game, then we have evidence to show that we're only a few pieces from consistently winning those games.
December 8th, 2019 at 6:22 PM ^
Make no mistake, I am ecstatic. This should be epic. Greatest coach in college football history against a coach whose team is ill prepared on a consistent basis. Talk about getting getting a lesson in football. This will one glorious beatdown! I will not miss one second of this. The UM coaching staff will be so out classed it will be quite funny.
Go Blue!