December 29th, 2010 at 11:22 AM ^
Id say I joined heavens gate again, but I did that yesterday....hmm ill go with Al Qaeda today. Just as long as im dying from these CC posts.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:22 AM ^
I just can't imagine he would want to come here now if he can go to the NFL. His stock won't be higher than it is now. Further, I don't see why we would want a guy who clearly has a taste for the NFL.
Whatever. No energy anymore.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
Yes his stock will be higher, after winning four straight national championships at Michigan.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^
There are a number of reasons a coach would want to coach in college when he can coach in the NFL. A number of coaches left the NFL ranks to be college coaches (again), sometimes because they got fired, and sometimes because they wanted out. Either way, it's not such a crazy thought that a guy would prefer to coach at the highest level in college as opposed to the league.
NFL coaches last about 3-4 years on average. Maybe Harbaugh wants more job security than that? If he has success at UM, we'll pay him close to what he'd get in the NFL, he would have a lot more autonomy, wouldn't have to deal with the NFL egos and could coach at the school where he played. These are not bad reasons.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:45 AM ^
I think the avg's are moving closer together and will continue to do so. The NFL will always have shorter avg's. And pay is moving closer as well, but the NFL will always pay more. If JH wants Carroll money, there is no way a college coach could come near that.
Curious, is it harder to coach in the NFL with the ego's or college, where you have to travel a lot more to recruit players as well as all the other aspects of having to deal with the NCAA.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:02 PM ^
I think it depends on the person. I wasn't really saying that the NFL is more difficult, just that there are certain things in the NFL that you don't have to deal with in college.
In the NFL you have big egos - guys who make way more than you do and think they're above the coach and the team. You have 16 games, plus the pre-season, plus the playoffs if you go. You have the draft and the salary cap making it harder to be good for many years in a row. And you have a GM who may or may not let you do a whole lot of what you want in terms of assistants or draft choices or what not.
In college you have student who need to go to class, and pass. You have to spend a lot of your off-season travelling and trying to sell 16-17 year olds on your school/team. You have to do a lot more teaching, as most of these guys aren't nearly as sound as the pros. You have alumni who feel a lot more of a connection to you your team than even the strongest NFL fans (this can be a pro and a con).
These lists are far from exhaustive, but what I was trying to say above is that there are a lot of reasons why a coach would prefer college to the pros.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
No, you were not saying it. I was just curious as to what you and others thought would be a tougher job. I always hear about recruiting being a year round process. It would seem in the NFL, you do have an off season where you can plan or scout and may not travel as much.
I got the impression that college is more work for less pay, but a more stable position. But, then you look at all the firings this year in CF. I don't follow Maryland football, but firing the Fridge after 8 wins, makes you think CF is becoming more and more like the NFL.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
"NFL coaches last about 3-4 years on average. Maybe Harbaugh wants more job security than that? "
I'm assuming this was some sort of joke... Please be some sort of joke.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:06 PM ^
Oh come on, I'm sure Harbaugh would coach longer at UM than he would at the 49ers or whatever team picks him up. If he went to the NFL, he's go to a team that needed a lot of help, and if he didn't take them to the playoffs in 3-4 years, he'd be out. Carolina and SF need a whole lot to get them there.
If he came to Michigan, he's the hometown golden boy. He'd be given more time here than in the league (and certainly more than RR was given) and with the parity there is in the NFL he'd have a much easier time producing a winner at UM than at either of those teams, at least on a consistent basis.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^
Well, I think that SF was only a game or two away from making the playoffs this year (albeit because of a terrible division), so I'm not sure it's such a hard row to hoe.
I also don't think the "golden boy" element is worth nearly as much as you suggest. If he were in RR's place, I think it would buy him an extra year. Also, you have to remember that in four or five years there is going to be another "it" coach, someone who we have to get NOW, or forever miss our chance.
Last, if he does have NFL aspirations, I can't see him committing to UM for more than 4-5 years. I just don't see someone coaching in college for 15-20 years and then going pro. Maybe I'm wrong, and this is not based on anything other than a hunch.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:28 PM ^
Right, SF wasn't good, they were just close to the playoffs because of a terrible division. They have the same record as the Lions, and one (1!) NFC team has a worse record.
Who says JH has NFL aspirations? If he comes to UM, I don't see him leaving unless he's fired, because I bet more than coaching in the NFL he would love to be the next Bo and coach UM for 20 years. He's young enough to do it, and unless he's not successful, we'll let him do it. If he gives us a decade of success, we'll pay him NFL type money, or very close. If he comes in and he's "meh" then he won't have the option to go to the NFL.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:38 PM ^
Ok, I don't know whether JH has NFL aspirations, but supposing he does (and supposing he also wants to coach at UM - otherwise it's all moot) what are his options? He could coach at UM, then go to the NFL, or he could coach in the NFL and then come back to UM.
I think the latter makes more sense. Coming here first would be problematic for a couple reasons: For one, if he doesn't do really well, the NFL will no longer be an option. If he does do well, he will be expected to stay a long time. Also, I think there will be a growing concern that he can only coach in college. As I said before, I think (personally) that a coach who has been in college for 15-20 yrs is unlikely to leave for the NFL.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:47 PM ^
Well, now we've completely changed the discussion from your original post to trying to guess what JH's aspirations are. If he wants to coach at UM, he has a shot now and might not again. If he goes to the NFL, coaches for 4 year and gets fired, UM might not have an opening and then he's stuck coaching a college team he'd presumably desire less than UM. Even if he wants to coach the NFL more than UM, it's a gamble. And if it's very possible he'd rather coach Michigan than the Carolina Panthers.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^
I think it's safe to say that JH has NFL aspirations considering that he interviewed with the Jets in 2009 (the job that went to Rex Ryan eventually). I believe he was also offered the Bills job after they got rid of Juron (he turned it down though), so there had to have been some communication there too. Does that mean he will go to the NFL even after her took a job here? I really have no idea, but it does give the impression that has a keen interest on it.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:55 PM ^
I guess that's what I meant. I'm sure all football coaches have NFL aspirations to some extent, but not all of them would prefer an NFL job over success at the college team of their dreams.
My gut feeling on it is, if UM is winning under Harbaugh, I don't think he'd leave that for an NFL gig that might be up in a few years. If Harbaugh isn't winning are UM, then either he won't get an NFL job or we're OK with him taking it. Either way, I'm not worried about the NFL poaching our star coach when we're winning Big Ten titles.
December 29th, 2010 at 1:02 PM ^
I'm seeing it the other way on that issue. My worry is that if Harbaugh has success (and I believe that he would) he would pull a Saban and bolt for the NFL, leaving us pretty SOL. Now I could be wrong because Michigan is more of a destination job, and he has ties here, but it still worries me that he has expressed interest in the past.
December 29th, 2010 at 1:54 PM ^
December 29th, 2010 at 7:34 PM ^
Obviously, the fanbase here is torn over Harbaugh, with stalawart supporters for and against him. But I must respond to this post because it speaks to a segment of the fanbase that is about to place unbearable pressure on whoever is coaching here.
First off, your list of coaches is apples and oranges since most of those coaches never had NFL aspirations. We know for a fact that Harbaugh has at least entertained the idea with the interviews.
Second, the idea of a former players coming in and saving the day needs to be abandoned, especially with Harbaugh. This was the same Harbaugh who threw his alma mater under the bus by criticizing and questioning our academic standards. Those comments prompted an investigation into the "general studies" program that embarrassed the university. Make no mistake, this was not tough love from a caring alum. This was a selfish attempt to paint a recruiting competitor in a bad light, at the expense of an alma mater. Harbaugh made those comments to enhance Stanford's recruiting in CA. Since then, solid recruits have been offered, but none have accepted. You cannot argue that at least some of this has to do with Harbaugh.
Remember when those comments came out and everyone here was calling Harbaugh a traitor? Remember when people were saying "that's it, he's never coaching here." We were all understandably upset, united in our opposition with the way Harbaugh made those statements. If he really cared, he would have raised the issue behind closed doors. How did you feel at that time?
Now, the Harbaugh supporters are denying these recent truths and casting him as a savior. I think part of it has to do with a longing for the past, when Michigan played Big Ten style football with mostly local recruits. Now that Michigan has abandoned those roots and is recruiting nationally, certain segments of the fanbase (especially local media) get upset.
But lest you forget, it was the boring "Debored" style offense that EVERYONE critcized. Everyone was longing for more creativity on offense. We were concerned with the lack of conditioning on both sides of the ball. We were concerned that our defense was too slow to stop spreads. And yet now everyone longs for that past, even as we criticized it uniformly as we watched our program slowly slip into irrelevance.
There are no magic potions. There are no white knights. Harbaugh certainly isn't one, although I would support him if he keeps the offense and hires a strong and proven DC like Randy Shannon. Fact is, as the rivals, ESPN, scout etc... rankings clearly show, the best talent is in Florida, Texas, California, and SEC states, so we must recruit those states. Fact is, spreads are still predominant in the college football landscape. Almost every top program outside the Big Ten (including Oregon and Auburn), run the spread. We still need speed on offense. No one is critcizing Rodriguez for his offense, only his gut-wrenchingly poor decisions on defense. If we had a strong DC who recruited well like Randy Shannon, and kept the current offense, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.
Maybe we went too far by bringing in Rodriguez and changing everything. But to completely go back to the past would be worse. I would support either Rodriguez or Harbaugh if they recognized the changes that need to be made defensively.
December 29th, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^
If Harbaugh leaves Michigan for the NFL, that can only mean that he will have succeeded greatly here. I can live with that.
I don't think Saban is a great point of comparison. Steve Spurrier is probably better. Spurrier is a UF alumnus and, while he harbored NFL dreams for a long time, was happy at UF for a long time (1999-2001) before finally leaving for the pros after he felt like he'd accomplished everything he could at the college level. If Harbaugh comes here, I don't think he'd be looking at the job as a temporary pit stop. He might eventually want to move on, but I think he'd want to establish a firm legacy here first.
December 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
If RR is only given three years, then why would JH be given MORE?
Doesn't JH HAVE to win more games each of years as compared to RR?
Of course, that shouldn't be hard. RR's record is hardly stellar here. So if JH doesn't have 8 or more wins his third year, he will be let go.
Right?
December 29th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
December 29th, 2010 at 3:41 PM ^
Any site that allows drunken "golphers" such as Anison to blacklist acual contributingmembers isn't worth a fuck any way. So take what you read from that site with a "wait and see" if they know what they're talking about attitude.
Been proven over the years the members to the site have much more knowledge re: UM football than do the monitors.
December 29th, 2010 at 4:32 PM ^
If RR is only given three years, then why would JH be given MORE?
David Brandon did not hire RR and in fact, back during the AD search, he was rumored to not be a fan of RR's at all (Brian wrote about this a year ago). If he hires Harbaugh, that's his guy. He will have a personal stake in his success in a way that he doesn't right now.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
If Jim's really interested in job security, he should apply for this Calibration Engineer job at Bosch. They're a private company, so they never lay people off.
Title: Calibration Engineer
Req Number: 15051 / 30014332
Location(s): Plymouth MI
For 100 years, Robert Bosch LLC has set the standard for quality and innovation in North America. Bosch is known worldwide for developing and manufacturing the best in automotive parts.
Major Job Duties Include:
* Calibration, Verification and Validation of ABS/TCS/ESC Brake Modulation Systems.
* Technical interface between customer and internal technical project teams for ABS/TCS/ESC Brake systems.
* Evaluation of the customer specifications and coordination of tracking system within technical project teams.
* Coordination of test vehicles and necessary test equipment to perform tests.
* Calibration of ABS/TCS/ESC Brake Modulation Systems (in vehicle testing).
* Participation in vehicle test sessions in different locations (summer and winter).
* Project handling and project documentation according to specified processes.
* Performing release procedures (verification and validation) for ABS/TCS/ESC software for different sample stages as well as final production software.
* Customer support and meetings on a daily basis.
Minimum Job Requirements Include:
* Bachelor's Degree in Engineering (ME or EE).
* A minimum of 2 years in automotive or control systems
* Knowledge in automotive techniques, vehicle dynamics and control theory.
* Experience with planning and conduction of tests as well as evaluation of test results.
* Strong verbal and written communication skills necessary.
* Vehicle driving experience (willing to learn operating a vehicle at the physical limits).
* Team oriented working style.
* Flexible, in order to participate in test sessions in different locations (in and outside of the U.S.).
* Past experience dealing with OEM customers strongly preferred with strong negotiation skills necessary.
Okay, so he doesn't have a BSME, automotive controls experience, or knowledge of vehicle dynamics, but with a bit of a fudged resume, I think he can at least get his foot in the door. Plus, the Stanford name and Michigan undergrad degree won't hurt at all.
December 29th, 2010 at 7:10 PM ^
A major reason. In college, if you don't succeed, it's probably your fault. You get the talent, you keep the talent, you coach the talent. Most guys don't think they'll fail. You go to the pros, unless you're a proven commodity, you coach the talent....and....that's it. I guess you also pray you don't have Matt Millen doing the other two. Because Millen fired 3 coaches and hired 3, but he got to stick around. In college, you're GM and Coach. So if you think you're good (and who doesn't?), you feel a lot more confident about succeeding. No cap, no draft...if you can recruit the best players every year, you get rewarded for being good, not penalized for parity's sake.
December 29th, 2010 at 4:28 PM ^
I just can't imagine he would want to come here now if he can go to the NFL.
It's pretty simple: there are 32 NFL jobs, and several come open every year. There is only one Michigan job, and it's come open four times in the last half-century. If he wants this job, he'd better strike while the iron is hot.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^
I don't know why John Harbaugh would want to leave the Ravens. I mean seriously guys, can we give it a rest? This guy is coaching an NFL team that keeps competing for the Super Bowl every season he's been coach. No way would he leave that for Michigan.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
This is me saying nothing, just like my momma always told me.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
Is this before or after your grandparents tell you to sit down? I would just skip the pleasantries and tell your tall skinny ass "DOWN IN FRONT" :)
December 29th, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^
Michigan football is getting better than my stories I watch on daytime TV.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
You're a woman!!!
December 29th, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^
Espn is reporting it now.
Wait, no their not.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
Their? There? They're?
December 29th, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
seems at all out of the ordinary for that board. That's what it's been like every day for a month.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:31 AM ^
Need a great title for this new daytime soap opera that is the state of Michigan's Head Coach
December 29th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
Only three outcomes left:
1 - If DB has already decided on JH he will look like an ass after Denard puts 35+ on MSU and we win the game.
2 - If DB has already decided on keeping RR he will look like an ass for not endorsing the coach and help smoothing the waters.
3 - If DB has already decided on JH and we lose to MSU bad he will look like a freakin genius.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^
December 29th, 2010 at 11:39 AM ^
for your scenario of a CC Soap.
December 29th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
actually i think the word you seek is fubar
December 29th, 2010 at 11:39 AM ^
What if Dave Brandon hasn't made up his mind yet?
December 29th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^
and you still get the same results. Ass or genius.
However, if he hasn't decided then you get option #4: WTF are you doing DB?
December 29th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^
This is a complex decision, and I think to break it down so simply, is unfair.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
but since I live in Houston I have not been in the UM bubble and what does that mean anyway?
Sorry but as an Ex CEO of a large corp. and now AD of one of the largest sports budgets DB has had 4-5 months worth of data so he should have a good idea of what direction he is going.
Also, there can only be a finite set of outcomes, I think he made a mistake with his hardline approach to 'Evaluate at the end of the season' mantra.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
Instead of us sniping at each other. Happy New Year!
December 29th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^
Whatever his plan is, I hope is somehow ends with him bringing about Ohio being stripped of its statehood.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:09 PM ^
Or, the more likely possibilities:
If we crush Mississippi State, Brandon brings Rodriguez back.
If we get crushed, Brandon makes subtle inquiries re Harbaugh. If he can get Harbaugh he does so; if not, he brings Rodriguez back and makes the expected statements about continued improvement, giving him time, etc., and keeps the fact that he approached Harbaugh under wraps.
If its a close game, Brandon does one of the two preceding options, but we don't know which way he's leaning.
By acting now, Brandon runs a greater risk of being second-guessed to smithereens if the MSU game is a blowout either way. By delaying, he can take the results of that game into account in making his decision.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
Or Dave Brandon isn't going to base his head coaching decision on one game because Dave Brandon isn't an idiot.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:27 PM ^
You are correct cbus, DB is not going to base his decision on one game, no way in hell. He would look very stupid bringing RR back, and losing all these recruits right and left.
December 29th, 2010 at 12:36 PM ^
I never said his decision was based entirely on one game, but if it's a close call (which it certainly is, otherwise a decision would have been made already), a blowout loss or victory in the final game can tilt it one way or the other. Especially if you're trying to determine how much progress has been made for next year.
8-5, ending the season with a blowout win over a ranked team, looks a lot different than 7-6 with a crappy offensive performance and a blowout defeat to end the season.
December 29th, 2010 at 2:17 PM ^
It seems that almost everybody on MGoBlog must be very decisively (rash?) in making their decisions. Why can't the bowl game make the decision? Every heard of overtime?
I think RR is in overtime. The bowl game decides it.