Five Buckeyes' juniors mulling NFL jump
The undisclosed players are sending in their papers to the NFL for evaluation. I hope they all get evaluated by the same person that did Donovan Warren's report. I can't see TP going pro early, but you never know...
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/21116/five-buckeyes-juniors-mu…
December 15th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^
Pryor has been a full time starter for three years and is not that much different now than when he started
That is not true. As a QB he is significantly better (mecanics, footwork, accuracy, decision making, etc.) than he was as a freshman, He isn't NFL ready, but he certainly has improved each year, and there is no reason to think that he won't improve his senior year also.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:14 AM ^
December 15th, 2010 at 10:15 AM ^
this was point chris spielman made, we need to recruit NFL caliber kids..let the bashing of this comment begin..
December 15th, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
This is great news. What are they loosing 24 total seniors this year on their entire roster? I can't remember where I heard that number. I am making the logical assumption that the Juniors who are considering leaving play meaningful minutes. Junior tOSU 2-deep:
OFFENSE
QB Terrell Pryor$, QB Joe Bauserman*
RB Dan Herron$
WR DeVier Posey$, WR Grant Schwartz*, WR Ryan Shuck*
TE Spencer Smith*
OT Mike Adams$, OT J.B. Shugarts$
OG Zack Slagle*
C Michael Brewster$
DEFENSE
DE Nathan Williams$, Solomon Thomas*
LB Andrew Sweet$, Etinne Sabino*
$ denotes estimated solid contributor or starter
*denotes estimated non-contributor
With all the seniors they loose, and if a few Juniors go, we could catch up in a heartbeat experience and talent wise to them next year.
December 15th, 2010 at 1:12 PM ^
Offensively, I agree with you. Defensively, I don't. All OSU does is reload and put one of the best defenses on the field in the big ten year in and year out. Unless, OSU's defense has a significantly drop off compared to what they've done the last 4-5 years, I'll be surpised if UM's defense is as good as OSU's next year.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
Thats just a list of the juniors they have on their two deep. I'm not speculating as to who will leave or how many. I just listed out every junior to see the pool of players who could leave. All I am saying is that OSU is loosing a lot of seniors, and maybe a few juniors. This translates into a smaller experience ratio vs Michigan next season. They still will have a better defense, and I never made any assumption saying that we would have the better defense. I do expect OSU to reload, but when you have to replace possibly 24-29 upperclassmen, this will make a difference. All this is showing is that there will be a much smaller gap between UM and OSU next year regarding age and experience.
December 15th, 2010 at 3:15 PM ^
Lose, it's LOSE DAMMIT!!!
December 15th, 2010 at 8:09 PM ^
It's also Andrew SWEAT not Andrew SWEET.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
The string is broken. UM 40 - OSU 27. Book it guaranteed.
GO BLUE!
December 15th, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
I love how hometown bias clouds Michigan fans' judgment.
Terrelle Pryor completed 65% of his passes, threw 25 TDs and 11 INTs, and has a 157.98 PER this year. Plus he's 6'6" and 233 lbs. and runs pretty fast. Oh, and he's 11-1.
But yeah, he sucks. He'll definitely be a tight end in the NFL! Those passing numbers in the Big Ten are horrible!
December 15th, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
shall we?
Miami- 12/27
Illinois- 9/16
Wisconsin- 14/28
Penn State- 8/13
Iowa- 18/33
But yeah, I'm sure those six touchdowns against EMU will get the scouts going nuts. Vince Young also completed 65 percent of his passes as a r. junior. He must be a great passer in the pros.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
His team won 4 out of 5 of those games, right?
You prefer Tom Brady's Superbowl Rings or Peyton Manning's passing stats?
December 15th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
counterpoint: Brady did something to earn those wins.
Bottom line: if you can't do anything better than average to below-average against winning teams in college, I don't like your pro odds. Just me, though. I know Pryor had success running the ball in most of those games, but the rushing yards don't come easily for a QB in the pros, so I'm more inclined to look at the passing game.
Do you really think Pryor can be the face of a pro franchise when he gets butthurt and cries every time Mark May pokes fun of him or he doesn't make the all-Big 10 team? I want my team's QB to be mature and thick-skinned. Pryor is neither.
Do you trust Pryor to hit a 40-yard post on a rope? What about a 15-yard out? 18-yard comeback? Do you trust him to step up in the pocket and deliver a good throw with LaMarr Woodley about to put him into next week? He has a hard enough time throwing a deep ball that doesn't start quacking halfway through with no pass rush at the college level, but I'm supposed to be convinced that he can be a good pro QB? Sorry, I'm not buying.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
Nobody's claiming that he's going to put up great numbers in the NFL. But to believe that he'll automatically be a tight end or wide receiver is a little silly.
December 20th, 2010 at 1:31 PM ^
Brady basically had a Pryor day in the 02 Super Bowl. 16-27 for 145 yards 1td, 0int. If that is earning it, Pryor has earned everyone of his wins too.
He won the MVP but I think everyone that saw the game would give it to the Patriot D.
College example? How about Joe Flacco against Villanova his senior year: 17-37. 145 yards 1td 1int. If Joe Flacco can't get it done against Villanova, I just don't see how any team could take a chance on him.
BOTTOM LINE, as it were, your POV means onions come draft day and the NFL is better for it.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:18 AM ^
Miami: 12/27 for 233 yards and 1 touchdown, plus over 100 yards rushing
Illinois: 9/16 for 76 yards, 2 touchdowns, 1 INT, plus over 100 yards rushing
Wisconsin: admittedly a bad game against a team that's beating other Big Ten teams by 60 points.
Penn State: 8/13 for 139 yards, 2 touchdowns, 1 INT in a 24-point win
Iowa: 18/33 for 195 yards, 1 touchdown, 2 interceptions plus 78 yards rushing
So his numbers against the cream of the crop of the Big Ten were 61/117 for 799 yards, 6 touchdowns, 5 interceptions; 400 rushing yards; and 4 wins and 1 loss.
Not great, but those stats don't exactly scream "NFL tight end" either. And for all the comparisons to Vince Young, Pryor runs more of a pro-style offense than Young and should have a slightly easier transition.
If I were an NFL GM, I wouldn't want Pryor because he seems like an ass. But he'll be an ass whether he plays QB or TE.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
He got hurt during the Illinois game. He strained his left quad at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, so virtually all of those stats came in the first half.
He wasn't able to run at all during the Indiana game the next week, where he was 24/30 for 334 yds, 3 TDs, 1 INT. Yeah, it was Indiana, but that's still an impressive stat line, especially for someone who's not a pocket QB.
December 15th, 2010 at 9:09 PM ^
Apparently it was blowing passes off by yards and there were also strange things like 41 yard field goals coming up short.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:14 PM ^
It is a good debate and you never know how the winds of the NFL will change.
Currently the VY experiment has been a mixed bag. He is still a terrible passer, but his legs do allow him to be effective as a qb when he is not going crazy.
Tebow has not been allowed to play yet.
Newton and Pryor are next. Is the NFL still willing to take a chance on these kind of qb's? It's and organiztional commitment, because you have to really mold your offense around these guys, because they can't operate a pro style scheme and be effective. Newton seems to have the arm and accuarcy needed. Pryor looks more like D. Stanton with speed. Pryor reminds me very much of V. Young minus the toughness to run. Pryor does not want to run.
Both put up good stats that made people say see he completes over 60% of his passes he is accurate, when in reality they pile up the stats because teams are paralyzed defensively because of their ability to break the pocket. People say it doesn't work in the NFL, it does, it is just not as effective.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
But those numbers just aren't that good. The rushing numbers are fine, but he won't do nearly as much of that in the NFL. It shows he's mobile, which is good. But an NFL team will want their QB to be able to make all of the throws, against NFL CBs, and to do so 30-35 times a game if necessary (he threw 30 passes twice in 12 games this year).
So against the cream of the Big Ten crop, he had a terrible game against the best team, and aboverage and nothing more against the other good teams. The only good game he had in that group was PSU, and those other teams aren't world-beater defenses either.
He wins games because OSU has a great defense, otherwise he might have gone 8-4 this year. Outside of Wisco, he never had to come from behind, so his passing wasn't really tested.
TP is a good, but not great, college QB. However, of the guys in college football right now, I bet we could name 10 guys who we all agree will be better NFL QBs. And that doesn't bode well for being drafted too highly as a QB in the league. My no-brainers - Ryan Mallett, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Landry Jones, probably Aaron Murray, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Barkley, Nick Foles, Brandon Weeden (?), Andy Dalton (?). Not a bad start.
EDIT: I'll add Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and Dayne Crist to that list as well.
December 15th, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^
Again, nobody's saying that he's going to be a superstar NFL quarterback.
I'm saying that it's kind of silly to say "He sucks! He's going to be a tight end in the NFL!" There's a big difference.
December 15th, 2010 at 3:53 PM ^
OK, I guess I didn't catch anyone saying he sucks, just that there is a lot in between "he sucks" and "he's going to play QB in the NFL." And if he wasn't so big and athletic, people would say that he has a shot as a back-up QB for a bit.
I think the "He's going to be a TE in the pros" comment has more to do with his potential as a TE than as his lack there of at QB. TP is 6'6" 235 and fast. That's a combination that current starting TEs in the NFL don't all have.
If my team drafted TP as a QB in any round before the 5th, I'd be upset about it. But if my team drafted him as a TE anywhere outside the top-20 or so, I'd think it was a good pick.
December 15th, 2010 at 9:23 PM ^
December 15th, 2010 at 10:35 AM ^
December 15th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
December 15th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
On what round you draft him and how set you are at QB position. He certainly looks as good as Mike Vick did in college......
December 15th, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^
Vick was otherworldly in college. Pryor is meh. Good, but not great.
Denard in his first year was more impressive than Pryor has been in three. If anyone looks like Vick, it is Denard.
December 15th, 2010 at 9:03 PM ^
Michael Vick was good in college. He was not "otherworldly". In fact, his statistics are not even close to Pryor's (or Robinsons...or Newtons...or...):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick#Statistics
| Passing | Rushing | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| YEAR | CMP | ATT | CMP% | YDS | TD | INT | ATT | YDS | TD |
| 1999 | 90 | 153 | 58.8 | 1840 | 12 | 5 | 110 | 580 | 8 |
| 2000 | 97 | 179 | 54.2 | 1439 | 9 | 7 | 113 | 636 | 9 |
He's a good (great-ish) pro QB. College numbers really don't indicate how good someone can be at the NFL level - that has been a repeated motif in history.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
Er...nope. As the poster before me said, Denard is pretty much Vick-Light. Pryor is a big, strong dude with a big arm and a small brain (for a QB)...If we're going to compare him to an elite QB, I liken him more to Roethlisberger. Big arm, extremely hard to take down, makes a lot of stupid, stupid mistakes but usually redeems himself on other big plays. Pryor is more athletic but less polished as a passer (mechanically) then Big Ben, but like Vick, if he puts in the work and has good coaching he can learn how to be a better passer in the NFL.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
You ought to hear how the Buckeye fans where I live in Ohio whine and moan and complain about both TP and Tressel. Expectations set before the year began and before Pryor ever played his 1st down at QB for OSU are ridiculous. He's a very good college QB, and when he goes someone in the NFL will take him and likely get another Mike Vick type QB or better.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
when he goes someone in the NFL will take him and likely get another Mike Vick type QB or better.
In terms of numbers or style? Remember that Vick's numbers in Atlanta were not very good. He was a 55% passer, average rating around 80. Ran around a lot and did get some wins from it. Not a very good QB until this season with Philly, though, after he went through a court-ordered maturation process.
I see TP's style being very different (more akin to Vince Young, or even Jamarcus Russell), but could see similar numbers (note also that VY's numbers are pretty similar to Vick's first several in ATL). What this means is that whoever drafts him will get a work in progress, basically a mediocre pro QB who won't win you a ton of games for at least the first few seasons.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
The Buckeyes fans where you live are idiots.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^
I agree he's had nice stats, but don't equate winning with Pryor at QB - Todd Boeckman went 31-16 over his career at OSU with similar passing numbers and only lost 4 games over 2 seasons. Sure, he shared time with Pryor during that second year, but winning at OSU has never been about the QB. And against any teams with good pass defenses - see below for the particulars, but Miami (TYM), Illinois, Wiscy, and Iowa all kept him around 50% or less in terms of completion percentages.
Pryor is a great athlete who could be an asset in the pros. But consider that when Tebow was coming out, most people figured he would flounder as a QB - and based on some stuff I've heard from Denver, he is still a work in progress. Tebow had better passing numbers, better rushing numbers, better winning percentage, actually won two MNCs, etc., and was farther along as a passer than Pryor has shown these past 3 years.
I'm not hating on the guy for being a Buckeye, but pointing out that a guy who hasn't made dramatic improvements as a passer over the past 3 years and who still struggles against good defenses despite having some very good weapons on offense and a dominant defense to cover up for him isn't being an irrational homer. People will likely say the same things about Denard in a couple of years, and I wouldn't blame them. Pat White, Woddy Danzler, and even Shaun King struggled in making the transition from RR's option QB to a more conventional passing attack, and I woudn't be surprised to see Denard struggle as well.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
I don't necessarily agree that Tebow was further along as a passer than Pryor. He had a lot of mechanical things to fix, and his offense was not pro-oriented at all. Pryor's offense actually uses a fullback, multiple tight end sets, etc. that he'll find in the NFL, too.
December 15th, 2010 at 5:36 PM ^
Pryor doesn't have the intangibles (I can't believe I just used that word) that Tebow has. To be an NFL qb, you have to be able to make good reads and have a very high football IQ. Based on what I've seen of Pryor (not very much, and I'm probably being biased in my assessment), his passes look ugly and his recievers bail him out a lot. Also, many of the draft experts had Tebow going in the second or third round based on his skill-set. A lot of people were also saying he was going to end up as a FB in the NFL. If I had to chose between Tebow and Pryor, I would take Tebow in a second, and I hate both of them.
December 15th, 2010 at 6:52 PM ^
I would take Tebow over Pryor, too, but mainly because Pryor is stupid and jerky and Tebow is a good kid.
December 16th, 2010 at 12:57 AM ^
Right, and I guess if I had a point that was it. Tebow's attitude was probably the main reason he was taken so high. Neither one of them was/is supposed to be an elite NFL qb, or even a starting qb for that matter, but Tebow actually has a chance because he's a great leader and hard worker, which is more than you can say about Pryor. I'm nowhere close to being as intelligent as an NFL GM (Matt Millen aside of course), but I wouldn't take a risk on Pryor. He's basically Terrell Owens without the play to back it up.
December 20th, 2010 at 1:38 PM ^
of all the random assessment of Pryor on here, he's not a leader or a hard worker? Based on what, exactly?
December 15th, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^
I'm not denying that the offenses were different and that Tebow didn't have some problems mechanically - I still think he'll never become a top-notch QB in the pros because his mechanics are all over the map. But looking at their junior-year stats, they both threw around 300 passes (Pryor still has a game to play, so he'll likely eclipse that number while Tebow was 298), with Pryor completing a few more but Tebow throwing 5 more TDs against 7 less INTs. He also ran for more TDs and about the same number of yards as Pryor. I couldn't find their downfield success rates, but according to cfbstats.com Tebow threw more accurately on third downs, especially as the yardage grew. Sure, that might be in part the offense, but I also think it shows a lack of maturation by Pryor as a passer in obvious passing downs. I'm not saying anyone should eb pronouncing him a lost cause as a QB, but he definitely has not made the dramatic leap that some people were expecting after last year's Rose Bowl win.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:28 AM ^
Pet peeve.
Pryor needs so much work if he's going to be an effective QB. The physical skills are there, sure, but the mental game isn't. I'm aware that he's 30-4 as a starter, but I'm more inclined to give the bulk of the credit to the running game and stalwart defense that Ohio State tends to have. I don't think he's nearly ready.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:28 AM ^
Herron and Nate Williams are probably the only ones close to going.
Herron can be replaced. I think this is a situation where his value might not be higher next year and there are good backs behind him.
Nate Williams didn't really have a good enough year to leave.
Posey would be silly to leave. The offensive line is staying.
The Ohio State offense will be good. The defense should reload with players coming back from injuries (Moeller, Christian Bryant, CJ Barnett) and talented backups (Sabino, Bell, Fellows, etc)
December 20th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
not leaving. Dan Herron may leave because he sees the backups taking more snaps next year and killing whatever stock he has (a la Pittman in 05). Herron as a senior next year will have three 4*s and a 5* behind him.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:29 AM ^
If the NFL has a lockout, nobody will leave. Meanwhile, it just so happens we've got no pro prospects. I don't believe that all of our ailments are due to bad lucky, but god damn fate has really sucked for the Wolverines this decade. Why couldn't there be a lockout in 2001 or 2006 or 2007 when we badly needed a guy who left early?
December 15th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
If Pryor's unlikely to improve his draft stock by staying another year there's no reason he should "suffer one more year", as he put it.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^
6 GP, 58.6%, 8 TD, 7 INT, 129.53 PER, 7.5 (I hate this stat so much, but since Magnus used it...)
November stats: 3 GP, 60.3%, 5 TD, 4 INT, 135.66 PER, 7.6 ypa.
WOW! What a stud.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
Pryor has improved: in his first two seasons he put up decent but unspectacular numbers against everyone including the "cupcakes", now he can put up huge numbers against the "cupcakes" but is still decent but unspectacular against competent college teams.
He will get destroyed by NFL defenses. Those moonballs he still has a tendency to throw will not get deflected to float into the hands of his WR's for long TD's, but rather, turn into INT's against an NFL-level secondary.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:44 AM ^
From Pryor's comments about how he would "dominate" if he were in the spread option, it sounds like he thinks he no longer needs to be in Columbus. He sounds to me like someone who realizes he made the wrong decision, but can't do anything to fix it on a college level.
If Pryor's ego has him thinking he is a finished product, and that all he has to do to be a great NFL QB is to put on an NFL uniform, then he has already made his decision.
December 15th, 2010 at 3:26 PM ^
He sounds like a confident/moronic 21 year old, just like every other damn 21 year old, athlete or not. Was is a foolish thing to say? Yes. Should he feel this way? Absolutely! Would you rather your QB say, "no I don't think I could play in their offense, I would suck" ? The kid was asked how he would do in those offenses, what did you want him to do? I would rather our QB have the confidence/belief that he can succeed in any system, wouldn't you?
December 15th, 2010 at 9:27 PM ^