MSU Interim President John Engler was dismissive of sexual assault claims as governor

Submitted by Leaders And Best on

People are now taking a closer look at John Engler's record after his appointment as MSU interim president. Only took 24 hours to have it start blowing up in their face. It is being reported that Engler fought and dismissed the investigation of rape and assault of female inmates in Michigan prisons by guards. The women ended up winning lawsuits against the State of Michigan after years of stonewalling. Sounds like the perfect person to lead MSU now. The incompetence of their trustees shows no limits.

http://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/msu-interim-president-john-engler-was-dismissive-sexual-assault-claims-governor

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090716/FREE/907169994/michigan-settles-prison-sexual-abuse-suit-for-100m

MGoBoard

UMForLife

January 31st, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^

So you would rather talk about Taco Tuesday or Weed Wednesday. I think you are right. You should start a topic on Weed Wednesday. That would be fun to talk about. Who cares about the thing that goes on in MSU and an important decision that would affect many students and athletes in the state of michigan.

Joined: 11/04/2013

MGoPoints: 63393

Section 1.8

January 31st, 2018 at 7:14 PM ^

Because your post and this particular story are so politically loaded.  I'd love to respond in detail.  But I've been so disappointed in the past with how politically-themed posts get moderated here.  I don't think my reply would be well-recieved by the mods.

All that I think I can do is leave you with a down-vote, which I have almost never employed in all my years in and out of MGBlog.

 

 

 

 

Joined: 01/04/2018

MGoPoints: 1167

Leaders And Best

January 31st, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^

Please tell me how this post is politically-themed? I didn't realize rape and sexual assault was a political issue. I guess I missed which party endorses rape.

I take pride that this is the first downvote of  "all your years" on mgoblog. "Joined: 01/04/2018"

I think you meant "all your days."

Joined: 09/09/2009

MGoPoints: 22529

Section 1.8

January 31st, 2018 at 8:41 PM ^

It was obviously fed to someone at Bridge by Deb Labelle who is a lawyer and political activist.  And of course the UN High Commision for Human Rights getting involved in US politics is always loaded, as it was in Flint and Detroit when activists tried to get the UN involved in water issues.

And no; no political party is "pro-rape."  I don't consider that anymore of a serious notion (I know you didn't mean it seriuosly) than I would take seriously the notion that by sending a letter declining the "assistance" of the UN, that John Engler "was dismissive of sexual assault claims as governor."

I'll say this too; my most troublesome "politics" issues on the MGoBoard were never when I was trying to make a political point with a new thread.  It was always when someone else created a political thread -- political in the way that fit the politics of a majority of the members -- and I chimed in to say, "Hey, isn't this poitics?"

Just like now.

 

Joined: 01/04/2018

MGoPoints: 1167

4godkingandwol…

February 1st, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^

... The UN thing is such a red herring that acts as a trigger phrase to insight tribal divisions. It is commonly used by nationalistic groups to dismiss or discredit legitimate arguments that are not aligned with those group's agendas. 

Take that entire piece out of this, and you still have a governor who actively worked to limit the ability of the US justice department to investigate serious (and later proven) accusations about the treatement of femaile prisoners by prison guards. He stonewalled, dismissed, and ultimately was proven to be wrong. His actions showed he had zero interest in justice for these women, and complete interest in protecting the "state". This is not political in any way. I fucking voted for the guy. It's just fact. 

 

 

 

Joined: 08/06/2008

MGoPoints: 31376

Njia

January 31st, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^

But for the life of me, I can’t even begin to describe how irritated I get at your sanctimonious rhetoric. I wonder just why it is that you even bother to read anything posted on this site, let alone have a screen name? Your posts are literally awash in a self-referential, congratulatory tone that sets your view of the facts somehow above all others. In other words, there’s “your opinion,” and the “wrong one(s).” Frankly, the irony in every one of your posts is that your politics are on display for everyone to see; never more so than when you’re castigating the rest of the readership for the same. You’re insufferable; and as a result, have no one to blame but yourself for the reputation you have justifiably earned on this site.

Joined: 09/15/2009

MGoPoints: 35773

Section 1.8

February 1st, 2018 at 7:17 AM ^

I didn't say that the topic should not be discussed.  What I suggested is that a full-throated examination of the politics behind the story, including the politics of the "United Nations" being involved in civil litigation in the United States, is probably something that won't be tolerated on the MGoBoard, judging from past controversies.

 

Joined: 01/04/2018

MGoPoints: 1167

Reader71

February 1st, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^

“Because your post and the story are so politically charged...” And here is where you were betrayed by your own politics. You assumed, based on no evidence, that the OP was politically motivated simply because he posted a story that you allege is politically charged. You realized that you overstepped, which is why you are backing off it and changing your story, highlighting a part of what you said while not defending your original statement about OPs political motivation.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

Section 1.8

February 1st, 2018 at 1:07 PM ^

I assumed that the OP was polticially motivated because I had just finished scorching him for his reckless lie suggesting that Education Secretary DeVos somehow acted inappropriately before, during or after a meeting with then-MSU President Simon:

http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-internally-aftermath-msu?page=2#comment-4904115

He put up two of those posts in different places, both with the same picture, and the same allegation that DeVos-Simon meeting was suspicious.  When absolutely nothing about it -- and particularly the result -- was suspicious.

 

Joined: 01/04/2018

MGoPoints: 1167

Reader71

February 1st, 2018 at 2:11 PM ^

I ask you to reread your own post. It demonstrates exactly what I mean. You admittedly assumed someone was politically motivated because they posted twice, wrongly in your opinion, about Secretary DeVos. They then followed that with a post about Engler. In neither the DeVos nor Engler posts is anything overtly political mentioned or even implied. Note well, you haven’t even accused him of writing anything political — you ascribe political motives to his posting. You combine those two events to create a political motivation out of whole cloth. Do you see what I mean? You are either working on unsound assumptions or are a charlatan. Couldn’t the poster have simply been wrong? Are two posts criticizing Republicans, on entirely apolitical grounds (sexual assault), just too much for you to handle without imagining unsupported motivations? I beg you to at least bother to support your assertions. You have a lot to say. If you want people to listen, please adhere to the conventions of discourse. Say a thing, support that thing, have evidence of some type. Don’t hem and haw and signal what you mean while saying something that requires less courage. EDIT: It’s also fantastically ironic that your response to someone seeing suspicion where you don’t think there should be is to become suspicious of him, despite no reason for it.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

NRK

February 1st, 2018 at 1:43 PM ^

Thanks, that is some important context that someone just reading this thread (me) didn't have.

 

When going down the road of talking about politics on here or injecting it into something, just my 2 cents, but at least that would give you some better grounds if in your initial response. Otherwise you're the one injecting politics into it.

Joined: 02/20/2009

MGoPoints: 6411

NRK

February 1st, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^

Literally the only referencs to the UN or United Nations on this board are your posts or one person responding to your post saying "who cares about the UN the rest of the stuff is bad."

 

Yes the article mentions it. But you went out of your way to bring that up rather than talking about the directly on point discussion. This is the issue with politics on this board - people inserting it where it doesn't need to be inserted.

Joined: 02/20/2009

MGoPoints: 6411

Reader71

February 1st, 2018 at 11:50 AM ^

Not to mention his first criticism about the article was that it was “obviously fed” to the writer. This is a totally empty claim. It doesn’t even deserve to by typed. It is meaningless. First, there is no proof of it. Second, even if it were true, this does nothing at all to refute the contents of the article. If you want to make a claim that the person supposedly doing the feeding is lying, make that claim and then support it. He offers not a single word. Then he goes on to use “political activist” as a pejorative without even having the decency to support it in any way at all. No arguments that activism is bad, nor that her particular actions have been bad. Nothing. Utterly devoid of substance. If you presuppose that certain phrases are damning in and of themselves, all you have to do is use them to make a point. This is insane. Like calling UN involvement “loaded”. What does that even begin to mean? Out with it! I thought I missed Section 1, but now I remember how much of an obscurantist he is, how disingenuous his rhetorical style is. He is a rank charlatan. It has nothing at all to do with his politics and everything to do with his intellectual honesty and moral quality. Say what you mean to say, or be correctly labeled a coward.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

Section 1.8

February 1st, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^

  Deb Labelle is happy to be called an "activist."  I think she'd call herself an activist; she's doing ACLU legal work on social/poliotical causes, and she's getting awards LGBT interest groups.

https://www.superlawyers.com/michigan/article/our-prisoners-ourselves/3…

No matter; back to the United Nations.  Do you not understand that infamous prison litigation case?  John Engler didn't handle it; the state AG's office and outside counsel handled it.  For much of the entire history of the prison litigation, Jennifer Granholm was either the AG (beginning in 1999) or governor (beginning in 2003).

No self-respecting Michigan chief executive is going let the United Nations come in and upset your own investigations and litigation management.  And that is what the Engler letter was, in that Bridge Magazine story.  It was, first and last, a response to the United Nations.  It wasn't a letter or a pleading or evidence or anything else in the prison litigation.  It was a response to a political stunt that had no meaning in the litigation.

Joined: 01/04/2018

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Reader71

February 1st, 2018 at 1:13 PM ^

Thanks. At least now you’re backing up your claims and offering something at all. You also either misunderstand my complaint about your use of “activist” or are playing dumb about what you did. It doesn’t matter that she is an activist or that she calls herself an activist. That’s the point. You use it, and couple it with “lawyer” in a sentence that could only be construed as either intirely irrelevant or meant to cast aspersions about the article. If it’s irrelevent, it goes to your rhetorical failings. If it’s meant to cast doubt about her veracity, it’s wrong, stupid, empty, and transparent. Other notable political activist lawyers include Abraham Lincoln, Clarence Darrow, and Antonin Scalia. Would you have us doubt their writings because they are lawyers and activists? But at least you’re now choosing to offer something, anything, about the matter at hand. Now we know your complaints about the article. Why did it take a direct call out to get you to say anything in your audible voice instead of dog whistle? And I still don’t know what you meant about the U.N. involvement being “loaded”. Out with it. Your style is infuriating. Keep this up and you might have justified complaints about people not liking your politics. Until now, we’ve all had problems with the way you present arguments.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

UMxWolverines

January 31st, 2018 at 7:15 PM ^

This whole thing is making me hate MSU more than OSU, and I never thought that was possible. This is such a disaster...obviously having someone with connections to the school helps in bad situations, but apparently they all have connections to the same bad shit. 

Joined: 03/01/2009

MGoPoints: 65474

MRoseBowl89

January 31st, 2018 at 8:27 PM ^

Seriously, no one  on BoT at MSU thought to do a background check on Engler's record as governor on sexual assault related issues?   How is that possible in this day and age?

I mean if you are going to bring in someone to help correct a culture that has been permissive toward criminal sexual assault and have patterns of coverups and denial of victims rights .... oh wait!  MSU BoT is solving 'the problems.'  Just maybe different problems from what the rest of us think are problems.   We just need Ferguson to tell us about how much else there is going on that is important again.  

Attetmps at business as usual in East Lansing.  Staggering... beginning to wonder just how far they are willing to go even now to protect their 'winning ways'.  Like a dark,corrupt form of "Spartans will".

 

Joined: 06/23/2017

MGoPoints: 75

blueday

January 31st, 2018 at 8:37 PM ^

The final say needs to be from the victims across multiple sports at the greatest cover up U on Earth. When they say justice is served... it's closed. Not when some coach, admin, trustee, donor, player,etc says it's over. Wear the "scarlet" S in shame forever

Joined: 11/04/2014

MGoPoints: 6493

DOBlue48

January 31st, 2018 at 10:16 PM ^

I will patiently stand by and await the response from Rachel Denhollander and her sister-survivors. They are not going away and they are fierce warriors. The likes that Sparty has never faced. Good night sweet sparty.

Joined: 10/21/2015

MGoPoints: 2156

snowcrash

February 1st, 2018 at 1:04 PM ^

It shouldn't have taken that long for someone at MSU to dig that up and take a pass on him. I assume they didn't know about this beforehand, and just failed to do their homework. MSU needs to get its collective act together in more ways than one.

Joined: 07/22/2008

MGoPoints: 6620

JNP63

February 1st, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^

As we have seen many times regarding these matters- - talk is cheap and action difficult. 

Word of the day: Placation

Synonym: MSU

 

Joined: 10/08/2017

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