The TRAIN

Submitted by sdogg1m on

I know this is kind of a snowflake thread but please don't negbang me to hard.

The train play: I expect to see more of it. When I say see more of it, I think other teams will copy it. Why? It is a well designed goalline play where the advantages are keeping the defense from setting properly and having almost no time to discover the alignment. Before this plays existance I would rarely see an unsettled defensive formation.

The discussion surrounding this play is that it is "fun" but I think it was meant to diguise a typical goalline play in attempt to boost the success rate of said play; any play. Definitely worked on Saturday in the sole time it was put into use.

I admit I am a noob when it comes to dissecting plays so I may be wrong on the advantages. I don't remember in my 25 years of watching football seeing anything other type of formation that rivals it... Anyone else?

Basically posted this for discussion.

Brian's observation of the play:

People are friggin' pumped for a novelty formation you can't even snap the ball from, and it turns out that is the correct approach. Butt popped wide open as Illinois resorted to man coverage and the ultramesh route won against it.

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Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2016 at 7:46 PM ^

I hope we keep it vanilla versus OSU...don't want too give too much away before we play Bama or Clemson.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(...waiting for the RCMB/ElevenWarriors idiot to copy and paste this back on their board under the title "Those scUM bastards r so arragint!")

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

ToledoGoBlue

October 24th, 2016 at 7:32 PM ^

While I was watching it on Saturday, I wondered what the average weight per player was on that play. Could it be a college record? Possibly a record for any football play ever?

Joined: 01/22/2009

MGoPoints: 539

ChopBlock

October 24th, 2016 at 7:38 PM ^

Love the topic, just felt obligating to downvote since the OP talked about voting.

My question - what would happen if we just used the train on every play? Doesn't seem like it would be any less effective if it were used more - it's just a good chance to obfuscate what you're doing until the last second.

Joined: 12/11/2011

MGoPoints: 2912

Ali G Bomaye

October 25th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^

I think part of the effectiveness of the train is that it's something different. It forces the defense to think about what's going on right up to the snap of the ball. But if we ran it every play, I'd bet that the defense would establish some "rules" as far as how to cover it, and it would be less effective.

Joined: 07/08/2008

MGoPoints: 17672

Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2016 at 7:38 PM ^

Jay brought that play to Jim...it's awesome that he lets him have a little fun.

Last time we ran the ball. So you have to figure out if a RB is in the game...then we go empty set with TEs.

There was no real need for the pick. It was a straight fence play and it forces them to play man, so it'll work.

Next time take a TE out and leave Smith in and check to a run if you see they're in zone for whatever reason.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

LSAClassOf2000

October 24th, 2016 at 7:47 PM ^

That song has been a terrible earworm since the Wisconsin game and the melding together of this song and that formation, but as we've used it to such success twice now, I just sing along now. 

I honestly had not thought about this song in years until Wisconsin weekend actually. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

MGoPoints: 130637

MikeMulligan

October 25th, 2016 at 9:26 AM ^

The train is a huddle formation designed to hide your personel and catch the defense off guard based on their very limited time to identify the formation and allignments once the huddle breaks.

The swinging gate is not a huddle formation, it is an actual formation, intended to see if the defense has prepared for the proper allignments to eliminate the easy 2 pt. conversion. There are eligible recievers ready to go.

So thats kind of like saying that a circular huddle is the same concept as the I formation, it just isnt, nice try, though...learn yourself some football.

Joined: 10/04/2016

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I dumped the Dope

October 24th, 2016 at 8:58 PM ^

In my mind its sort of a divergence to the "run up to the line and try to snap the ball so fast the opponent isnt set"  But reduces the chaos which can also bite the offense.

In this case the opponent is quite set, but are they aligned properly, heck no.

It seems to enforce a man-to-man coverage because there's no time to setup and agree on zone, or multi-depth coverage areas.  

Then the superdrag/crossing pattern, Butt was covered but 2-3 steps slow.

I can see some sort of a jet sweep or reverse play also working out of this, it could be a backwards pass/halfback pass type play as well, for slightly different reasons that the defensive players driven out of the pre-snap urgency are then trying to bite on what they see and not sitting back analyzing.

Genius play design.  Hope we see more of it!

Joined: 09/22/2013

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4yearsofhoke

October 25th, 2016 at 1:20 AM ^

I think it would be easier to run zone vs. "the train." Man to man requies LBs and DBs to literally count who they're going to man up on and the problem is the LBs don't know what the formation will be. (e.g. two TEs, split back, I, trips, 4WR, etc...) If you are running cover two, you just have the corners playing the flat, LBs in the seam, and Safetys up top.

Joined: 12/19/2015

MGoPoints: 2256

Squeezebox

October 24th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^

when they then line up in a tight formation and run up the middle, as that would be the easiest play to defend on short notice. 

I think Harbaugh has some sort of trick play prepared that he will unveil at the appropriate time.   It's all about playing mind games with future opponents.

Joined: 04/25/2014

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HarbaughFever

October 25th, 2016 at 2:58 AM ^

Basically is the Harbaugh version of a no-huddle, hurry-up offense.  Part of the benefit there is not having time to see which players are out there, diagnose the formation, look at which way the offense is tipping, and read your keys as a defense to try and anticipate what's happening.  The TRAIN does the same thing.  GENIUS.

Joined: 09/08/2013

MGoPoints: 303

treetown

October 25th, 2016 at 9:19 AM ^

1. There are supposed to be mandated limits on practice time.

2. It is an easy formation for the offense to line up in - so little effort on their part.

3. Opposing defenses have to prepare for it - may make it harder for them to figure which player packages are in there and where - so uses up time for their part.

4. A bit of chrome. Basically the idea was simple. All of the recievers on the right side crossed and Jake Butt on the left side runs against the flow. This crosses up the defenders and sprang Butt wide open. No doubt there is some counter plays off of that one.

In short, easy for the Michigan offense to install and practice, and uses up time and energy for opposing defenses.

Joined: 11/10/2010

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Jim HarBo

October 25th, 2016 at 9:57 AM ^

It is mostly no different than coming out of a huddle and sprinting to your starting spot, which has been done plenty.  The only possible advantage I could see is if there were some type of read they were performing while in the train, but I'm not sure what that read would be as the defense hasn't show their alignment yet.   

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