[LOCKED] OT: Ole Miss band will no longer play "Dixie"

Submitted by crg on

FYI.  Is this a case of politcal correctness harming college football tradition, long overdue social justice, or something in-between?  While UM football hasn't had to deal with the same history that many southern schools have on this issue, it isn't unassailable either (e.g. Fielding Yost keeping a black player, Willis Ward, out versus Georgia Tech) - so this does have some relevance here.  At least this Ole Miss headline isn't about Hugh Freeze... yet.

 

POST-LOCK EDIT:  I was really hoping this could last for at least a few hours before getting killed.  So much for level-headed discourse.  Oh well - I suppose MOMS know best.

 

http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/08/19/ole-miss-rebels-marching-…

 

MOD EDIT - Well, that went about as well as you could have imagined. Locking this, as apparently feelings on this are - and I cannot imagine why - strangely complex. - LSA

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drjaws

August 20th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^

No. My entire point was legally, there is no difference between the joker down the street flying a confederate flag and Ole Miss playing Dixie.

However, both are horrible ideas, but that was a discussion on morality etc. that isn't a discussion for this site.



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Maize Craze

August 20th, 2016 at 4:02 PM ^

While it may seem weird at first for the fans this is the correct move. Also, the people who drive around with confederate flags are completely out of touch with reality and are best to be ignored. They are easy to ignore, just avoid your local Walmart.



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Wolverine Devotee

August 20th, 2016 at 4:08 PM ^

The traitorous rag should be banned from flying in the US similar to how Germany banned the Nazi flag. 

 

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xtramelanin

August 20th, 2016 at 4:24 PM ^

i hate what you (not you, WD, but the euphemistic 'you') have to say, but i will fight to the death to preserve your right to say it.   

in a free society people say offensive things, its the hurley-burley of life.  i prefer that over communist and muslim countries who will imprison you or cut your head off if you get sideways in your 'approved' communication.  

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Wolverine Devotee

August 20th, 2016 at 4:29 PM ^

Germany is a democracy and they ban the Nazi flag, though. Or am I off?

The US flag idea of mine comes from my anger given I had virtually an entire generation in my family fight in WWII and Korea. The flag doesn't stand for the government here, it stands for those who defend and defended it.

You disrespect it, you disrespect everyone who fought and died for YOUR rights.

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xtramelanin

August 20th, 2016 at 4:33 PM ^

and they outlaw all manner of speech and even homeschooling, so they are further to the left of us in their outlook and i will stop there to stay away from politics.

and i get how you feel about disrespect for our flag and for the same reasons you mention - but freedom comes with a cost and that cost includes offensive speech, people carrying guns in places that we are no longer used to, etc.   if you start legislating speech and conduct like that, you eventually end up on the wrong side of the speech police. 

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UMxWolverines

August 20th, 2016 at 4:43 PM ^

Cmon man. One was used as a symbol of mass murder. The other, while technically treasonous against the Union, was a symbol of rebellion from a government ovestepping their boundaries. If the government decided to tax every person in Michigan more than any other state would you be pissed? 

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bacon1431

August 20th, 2016 at 5:12 PM ^

You're arguing against something I didn't say. If the Nazi flag is a symbol of mass murder nad genocide, then the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism and slavery. You could say the Nazi flag was just a symbol of the Aryan way of life and policies of the party (not just the Aryan supremacy). That's essentially what you've said the Confederate flag stands for. Some people fought on the Confederate side because they felt they were being oppressed by the Union. Absolutely. But when you boil it down to the bare bones, the war was fought because the Souther states wanted to preserve how they made their money - industries supported by slavery. An institution that killed millions of people (much like how the Nazi regime killed millions of people). Doesn't mean that the South is significantly more racist than the North. The KKK originated and thrived in the MW, so we know that's not true.

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enlightenedbum

August 20th, 2016 at 5:33 PM ^

It was not a rebellion against a government overstepping its boundaries.  It was against the fear of slave power in the Congress being limited by the banning of slavery in the territories.  Which is a power the Congress was well understood to have.  So they fired on Fort Sumter before Lincoln made a move against them.

And if you ever questioned whether the war was about slavery, read the documents of secession.  Primary documents tell us that yeah, the first and paramount complaint was about slavery.  Everything else was made up afterwards to glorify the traitors.

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The Mad Hatter

August 20th, 2016 at 4:51 PM ^

Or hanging up the stars and bars on my porch either. But you need to think about those actions in a larger context. We are the ONLY country on earth where the right of free speech is nearly absolute. It is our most important right and forms the foundation of our nation and all the other rights our Constitution guarantees.

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enlightenedbum

August 20th, 2016 at 5:13 PM ^

Canada's the most obvious example.  Others: Australia, the UK, post-war Germany (which goes too far, I think), the Scandnavian nations...  I'm mostly a free speech absolutist actually and argue the other side with Canadian friends on liberal forums, I'm just aware that not everyone does it like we do.

I'm not for outright banning the Confederate flag for individuals, though I am going to judge those people as racist fuckwits.  However, the institutions of the state should not be using the regalia and symbols of treason in defense of slavery, for the obvious reason that it creates an atmosphere hostile to a large portion of the population.  If Ole Miss is meant to serve primarily the citizens of Mississippi, it should serve all of them.  I also think the Stars and Bars should be removed from their flag for the same reason and celebrated when South Carolina finally did so after the Mother Emmanuel shootings.

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KC Wolve

August 20th, 2016 at 5:14 PM ^

Yep, people really don't think about this enough. Like someone said above, it's my right to do..... and I may get my ass kicked for it. Giving up rights is a fucking terrible idea no matter the context. A dude in Canada got fined 40k for a damn joke. Can you imagine if that happened in the US one time?



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LSAClassOf2000

August 20th, 2016 at 4:33 PM ^

As someone with active family ties to Germany, it is the case that while the symbols of the old NSDAP are illegal, the party that rose from its ashes - the NDP - is not. There was an attempt by the Bundestag to petition the Constitutional Court in Germany, which can ban parties outright, and it was ultimately rejected. You will not see swastikas, but sadly the ideology of that party is alive and well and vying for seats in government. 

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Doc Brown

August 20th, 2016 at 4:46 PM ^

Completely disagree. My first amendment rights allow me to make as disrespectful gesture as I want. However, you have the right to kick my ass afterwards.

The bald eagle should only be protect to save a threatened species not for bullshit patriotic reasons.

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JamieH

August 20th, 2016 at 4:15 PM ^

That was literally the ONLY song the Ole Miss band played.  Their half-time show was, I kid you not, "Seven Variations on Dixie". 
 

 

We've had a lot of good wins over the years, but outside of Ohio State, I can't say I've ever been happier to just grind a team into oblivion like I was that day. 

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wolfman81

August 20th, 2016 at 4:18 PM ^

many colleges in the south were founded for one of two reasons. 1. Educate African Americans (historically black colleges and universities) 2. Subjugate African Americans. Many colleges were founded after the Civil War to educate poor white people by making more teachers. This was "important" because voter eligibility laws often had literacy requirements, and poor whites often could not read... Especially schools founded for the second reason were often founded by racists, have buildings named after those racists, and any attempt to celebrate that school's history must be carefully constructed so that it is not a celebration of racism. Many academic institutions need to be aware of this complicated history. As far as Ole Miss goes...I'm not sure I can comment too intelligently because I don't know how near Dixie is to the fans there, but think of it this way. What if Temptation were offensive, and the MMB were to stop playing it. How would we feel? As long as we can stay civil on this, I see no reason to lock this thread. Let's not give the Mods cause to lock the thread, OK? ;)

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xtramelanin

August 20th, 2016 at 4:21 PM ^

like the flag.  i mean, i get history and all, but nowadays you see some dude running around with it and it's obvious he didn't get past 9th grade, much less history class, and the only basis i think those mental midgets have for having those flags is racism.    

 

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enlightenedbum

August 20th, 2016 at 4:59 PM ^

There was a long organized movement among intellectuals (prominent member: Woodrow Wilson) to rehabilitate the Confederacy as a noble effort to preserve freedom from the tyranny of Washington that dominated establishment American history until depressingly recently.

It's also why Grant's Presidency is more often remembered as that of a drunken fool and not for being the best President on race relations until at least Truman, maybe LBJ.

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go16blue

August 20th, 2016 at 5:01 PM ^

The song's history began long before the civil war, and has continued since then. It meant a specific thing in that time period, and represented ideas that are best left in the past. But is that still what it represents to Mississippians today? (I honestly don't know, but my gut would say no.) If it was used to promote racism on campus or at games, good, nix it. And if its use was in a major way alienating black students on campus, then they're right to stop with it. But I don't think it's fair to tell people who feel a strong connection between that song and their home that, because it was co-opted by a racist rebellion or has historical racist connotations, it will forever be a irredeemably racist symbol. And I don't think it's fair to tell those people that they cannot celebrate their heritage with that song, if that's what it means to them.

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