Rival Defenders and White Knights, explain yourselves

Submitted by The Mad Hatter on

I've noticed a curious phenomenon on this blog and the currently active Sparty disrespekt thread reminded me of it.  Since there is exactly nothing else going on in the Michigan football universe at the moment, I have a question.

Why do you feel the need to defend OSU, and especially MSU, in every single thread about either team?  I'm pretty sure that there's no one on their boards saying "Michigan is going to kick our asses this and every year now that they have Harbaugh as coach", or anything similar.

And yet, every single time OSU or MSU is mentioned here, several people show up in a thread with...

"MSU will be great as long as Dantonio is coach", "We can't say anything until we beat OSU", etc, etc.

WHY?!?!?!?!

 

 

HAIL-YEA

July 18th, 2016 at 6:52 PM ^

everyone on this blog knows that, what's your point?  What I am sick of is everything think we have to act like a bunch of pussies because of MSU's little run the last few years. You can acknowledge that they had good teams and still believe Harbaugh will pound them.

Gooseggs

July 18th, 2016 at 7:46 PM ^

It's frustrating how do many here feel the need to regurgitate every accomplishment for our rivals over and over. You think you're being level headed but you're really just regurgitating the myopic propaganda that comes from spartyzz. It's confusing that um fans feel the need to boost their rivals and throw it in their own fans faces. Thank you for sharing those facts. Do you want to talk about our 1/2 championship in 97 also?

ijohnb

July 18th, 2016 at 2:16 PM ^

They have owned us, split with OSU, won three BIG championships (one tie), won the Rose Bowl, the Cotton Bowl, and went to the College Football playoff.  They also have as many 11 win seasons than anybody else in the country the last 5 or 6 years.  They may not have been GREAT, but they may have been regular great.

 

evenyoubrutus

July 18th, 2016 at 2:18 PM ^

They have been very good. It just happened to coincide with the worst period for Michigan in about 50 years. They have not looked like a national powerhouse by any means. Name five programs across the country in the last two decades you would consider "great" over an extended period and I guarantee you MSU is nowhere near any of them.

ijohnb

July 18th, 2016 at 2:23 PM ^

I am not trying to say they are the cream of the crop.  However, if we had the same resume as set forth above over the last decade, I would consider it to be the continuation of Michigan's "greatness" as a football program.

In any case, sometimes I think that we are a little too close to the issue to see what Michigan State has really done in the last decade.  It pains me to say it because I want to puke on their faces, but they are no longer just a "cute story" of the little engine that could.  They have made themselves more formidable than I would have ever guessed they could have.

theyellowdart

July 18th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

If I was making a list over the last two decades, no MSU wouldn't be anywhere close to being on it.

If I was making a list over the last decade, MSU still wouldn't be on the list, but wouldn't be super far off from being on it.

If I was making a list over the last 5-6 years MSU would be on my list in the #4/#5 spot.

 

I don't care about the semantics argument behind great or very good though.  To me, MSU is currently a great team and a great program, outside of poor recruiting (which isn't anything new) I don't see any glaring or obvious reasons as to why they will not be great going forward.

That recruiting will bite them in the ass for a season or two here and there though.

leonidaswolverine

July 18th, 2016 at 1:40 PM ^

I know that a good deal of homerism is to be expected on a UM board, but the fact remains that both our rivals have elite coaches who have proven more in CFB than ours, and have had a lot of success against us lately. Further, not giving our rivals their due as tough opponents lessens our accomplishments in past seasons and undermine the importance of wins against them this season.

I don't really understand the "we can't say anything until we beat x" crowd though, as its summer on a UM forum and all we really have to do is speculate.  

Sledgehammer

July 18th, 2016 at 2:24 PM ^

Has Dantonio really proven more than Harbaugh on the college level? Dantonio took a historically average team and has them at a near elite level. Harbaugh has taken a historically terrible team with some of the highest academic standards in the country and turned them into a near elite program that is carrying on after he left. I would say that what Harbaugh did at Stanford is more impressive than what Dantonio has done at State. The only difference is the length in tenure. If Harbaugh stayed at Stanford, I think he would have had more success than Dantonio has in the same time span.

leonidaswolverine

July 18th, 2016 at 3:07 PM ^

But Harbuagh only had one 10+ win season at Stanford, and two winning seasons. Dantonio has 5 in the last six years. I agree with your speculation about Stanford if Harbaugh stayed, but he didn't, and as such hasn't proved himself in the same way. 

I'm definitely not saying Harbaugh won't prove to be the better coach, but what-ifs and Shaw wins don't outweigh Dantonio's actual direct success. 

stephenrjking

July 18th, 2016 at 1:40 PM ^

I don't feel the need to pop into every thread about those teams. I usually ignore them.

But when they come up, say, in a discussion about recruiting, I prefer intellectual honesty to demogoguery and empty-headed rival bashing. So I will, when the subject is at hand, grant that Michigan State continues to be excellent virtually every season despite having to replace key players without the benefit of top 10 recruiting classes, and grant that Urban Meyer is an excellent coach with lots of talent.

It's not that hard, really. I suppose the OP is addressing grammar Nazi-like obsession with bringing this up every time the topic is broached, and if so I understand where he is coming from, but simply saying that those teams are good and will continue to be isn't defending them at all.

LJ

July 18th, 2016 at 1:40 PM ^

Maybe it's a desire to have meaningful, measured, and realistic discussion about sports rather than an echo chamber of homerism like every other sports board ever?

JDwolverine

July 18th, 2016 at 2:16 PM ^

OSU has been better than us for more than a decade, but MSU has been lucky as hell because without RR/Hoke, there's zero chance of them having a winning streak against us. Michigan football will always be better than MSU as long as we don't shoot ourself in the foot.

Maybe it's because I live in Michigan, but I find MSU fans way more annoying than OSU. I actually respect what the Buckeyes have done (besides the cheating under Tressel) on the football field and for the most part, their fans actually wanted Michigan to be good again. Sparty slappies can't stand to hear any positive news about us, they even hated on Denard.

MGJS SuperKick Party

July 18th, 2016 at 2:21 PM ^

I respect what Dantonio built too. He's built a machine with 2-3 star players who most programs weren't fighting for, with the occasional 4 star sprinkled in. He's built a program that is very good in the Great Lakes region. Granted Michigan, Ohio State and ND were down when he first started, but that's not the case anymore and the success has been sustained

BigBlue02

July 18th, 2016 at 4:49 PM ^

2 times. And to be honest, they wouldn't have had a losing record a couple years ago if Dantonio would have picked Cook as the starter instead of the clown show he ran with dueling quarterbacks before he moved one of them to WR

LSAClassOf2000

July 18th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^

Actually, let's get more specific than this, and anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing someone speak this way will hopefully agree with me here. Imagine all of the comments in Gameday threads spoken with a Broad Yorkshire accent. I mean that. It makes the deepest, darkest, most existential fandom threads somehow hilarious. It's also the only way I can keep myself sane while modding them. 

Gentleman Squirrels

July 18th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^

I don't know about other people but I don't like to proclaim we're better than our rivals until we actually beat them. I will say that those programs can go to hell for all I care. Both Meyer and Dantonio have shown they're pretty good coaches, though they suck as people. But in general I prefer just saying how good we are/ or gonna be and that with Harbaugh we can definitely win the national championship soon.

1989 UM GRAD

July 18th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^

It's not that people are defending them. It's that, in recent history, both MSU and OSU have enjoyed a much higher degree of success on the football field...both generally and against Michigan.

Danwillhor

July 18th, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^

I'm not a "we're doomed forever" guy but a couple things acre very clear by now: 1 - Msu will not be the msu we grew up with as long as MD is there. Douchebag but a good coach that absolutely hates us. He'll gladly go 1-11 if that one win is against us. 2 - Osu is much more talented than is and has been for a decade. We're not at their level and won't be for a few more years. We can beat them before that but it will take a great effort on our part and a bad one on theirs. As with msu, hate him or not, Meyer is as good as they come in CFB. He'd put 21 on the board with me at QB. He may have ran away from the SEC after digging his own grave but he's now at school that behaves like it's in the SEC but plays half its schedule vs the powers of Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland and Illinois. Osu will sleepwalk to 10 wins as long as Meyer is there and he doesn't go full "OMGBANGINGHOTFLORIDACOEDSMYTEISAMURDERERWHOCARES". Nobody is turning cuck by admitting the reality of Michigan Football and that of our rivals. We've dug a pit while standing in it but we're climbing out. Give it time or we'll all expect the world RIGHT NOW and if/when it doesn't happen RIGHT NOW we'll eat each other again and fall back to the bottom of that pit. We need to realize we're climbing (!) and for FUUU sake, climb carefully.

Magnus

July 18th, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^

The OP seems to be suggesting that, because there are MSU and OSU slappies who show homerism at every turn, then it's okay for all of us to be homer slappies.

Personally, I don't like to get suicidal thoughts when we're down at halftime to Northwestern, so I prefer to keep my thoughts rational.

FolkstyleCoach

July 18th, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^

Oh man, thanks for another laugh Hatter. Surely you can't be serious. Do you even understand how sports work? I'll make it easy for you, the word is "scoreboard".



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4godkingandwol…

July 18th, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^

"I'm pretty sure that there's no one on their boards saying "Michigan is going to kick our asses this and every year now that they have Harbaugh as coach", or anything similar."

Because it's what separates us from those animals. Our bar shouldn't be rcmb.



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PopeLando

July 18th, 2016 at 1:56 PM ^

Talking shit about your rival while having consistently lost to them is pretty much the most MSU thing ever. We are attempting to not do that. Blind hatred for your rival with no acknowledgment of their good qualities is pretty much the most OSU thing ever. We are attempting to not do that either.

Farnn

July 18th, 2016 at 2:01 PM ^

I wonder if the people who can be rational about our rivals are also those who can keep potentially political discussions neutral and from veering off into thread lockdown territory.

ijohnb

July 18th, 2016 at 2:07 PM ^

are the same.  I actually wish that it was possible for everybody to keep a level head during political discussions on this board because there are a lot of smart people on here and honest, fair dialogue may be as important right now as any other time in the history of the country.  Unfortunately, everything remotely political erodes into an MSNBC comment board within 10 minutes and the mods have no choice but to intervene.