OT - 100th anniversary of the Somme

Submitted by M-Dog on
 
People often think of World War I as this quaint, jaunty escapade with men on horses in silly hats, and soldiers with pop-gun bayonet rifles.  Especially as compared to World War II.
 
But far from it.  WWI was a gruesome brutal event, especially for the soldiers that fought in it.
 
Worst of all was the Battle of the Somme, begun 100 years ago today.  Link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Somme
 
 
20,000 British soldiers died on the first day, most of them in the first 5 minutes of the battle.
 
After 5 days of (ineffective) cannon bombardment of the German front lines, the British commanders ordered their troops go over the top and walk over a mile of open land to the German trenches, where they were to finish them off in bayonet charges.  They were assured that the Germans would be numb and decimated from the bombardment and would put up little resistance.
 
Not so.
 
The British troops were cut down like rows of corn in a hail of German machine gun fire.  Death rates, not just casualty rates, but death rates, were 90%+ in the first wave.
 
In their infinite arrogant wisdom, when the British generals heard what happened, they ordered another wave to attack - with the same result. 
 
This type of thing went on until November 1916 until it was called off.  When it was all said and done at the price of a million casualties, the end result of the battle was that the Allies advanced into the German lines . . . only 6 miles.   
 
The Somme is the epitome of the saying "always fighting the last war."  The 1800's bayonet charges were no match for machine guns on the other side.  Unfortunately, it took the wise old generals in charge months and months to realize this.  When their attacks failed in piles of dead bodies, they just ordered more.  They completely ignored the reconnaissance that came back to them because it went counter to their brilliant plans.
 
When people on here were criticizing Brady Hoke for his 27 yards in 27 attempts game, they posted a parody sketch video of British WWI generals bragging how they will surprise the Hun by blindly charging into their lines  for the 18th time after 17 failures . . . because who would believe that someone would be so stupid as to try it again?  That sketch was based on the Somme.  It's only "funny" when separated by 100 years of history.
 
It's been a bad week for the Brits, but they've faced worse. Far worse.
 
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stephenrjking

July 1st, 2016 at 9:39 PM ^

Eastern Europe was, of course, a disastrous result of the war. 

But the principle of unconditional surrender was absolutely right. The militaristic impulse in Germany and Japan needed not only defeat, but total demolition.

That's what happened. And the result was the quick emergence of two democratic, economic powerhouses.

The failing wasn't the demand for surrender, but to fail to protect Eastern Europe from the drop of the curtain.

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Jason80

July 1st, 2016 at 8:38 PM ^

Himmler did attempt to negotiate terms however was rebuffed as his position to do so on behalf of the Reich was obviously dubious. However it does illustrate that even those in the SS were willing to stop killing and dying for a lost war. Conjecture aside though perhaps the allies learned from Versailles that securing peace was more important than winning the peace.

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Brimley

July 1st, 2016 at 9:55 PM ^

1) Chamberlain gets a bad rap.  Remember that the British military was a mess in 38 (only twenty years after WWI).  The mood of the nation was decidedly anti-war as well (cross ref the Oxford debate in 1933 in which 2/3 of the assembled determined that "this House will in no circumstances fight for King and country.").  With the benefit of a lot of hindsight, we can say he should've taken a firm stand, but at the time, this would've been fairly nuts.

2) EVERYBODY was cashed in 1918.  Sweeping into Germany (maybe...or would it have taken a couple more years and a whole lot of death?) again sounds great with hindsight.  Remember there was rebellion among the soldiers going on (rightfully; what the hell was the point of WW1 anyway?  My socialist grandfather saw it as workers killing workers) and asking them to just give a few more months/years might've been the breaking point for them.  They needed to end it.

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Commie_High96

July 1st, 2016 at 10:10 PM ^

These are very good points: the British army was very undermanned before both the first and second world wars. Great navy, small army. It wasn't just Chamberlin who tried to negotiate with Hitler, the French and Russians also were falling over themselves to keep a war from happening. The US also wanted no part of it is either. You have to remember all sides were cashed because of Spanish flu as well. That stopped the war as much as anything else. You socialist grandfather was right, but also, there were many ways to keep WW1 from happening, all sides screwed it up. My own grandfather was in the trenches when he got Spanish flu and was sent to a field hospital. After he left his home noire brigade was wiped out. His wife was notified he died and only found out he did not after the war ended and he showed up to his home in Montana and surprised everyone. He got to see his own grave.

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VoiceOReason

July 1st, 2016 at 10:53 PM ^

"The iron harvest is the annual "harvest" of unexploded ordnance, barbed wire, shrapnel, bullets and congruent trench supports collected by Belgian and French farmers after ploughing their fields. The harvest generally applies to the material from World War I, which is still found in large quantities across the former Western Front.[1]

During World War I an estimated one tonne of explosives was fired for every square metre of territory on the Western front.[2] As many as one in every three shells fired did not detonate.[3] In the Ypres Salient, an estimated 300 million projectiles that the British and the Germans forces fired at each other during World War I were duds, and most of them have not been recovered.[4]In 2013, 160 tonnes of munitions, from bullets to 15 inch naval gun shells, were unearthed from the areas around Ypres.[4]

Unexploded weapons—in the form of shells, bullets, and grenades—buried themselves on impact or were otherwise quickly swallowed in the mud. As time passes, construction work, field ploughing, and natural processes bring the rusting shells to the surface. Most of the iron harvest is found during the spring planting and autumn ploughing as the region of northern France and Flanders are rich agricultural areas.[5] Farmers collect the munitions and place them along the boundaries of fields or other collection points for authorities.[5]"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

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weasel3216

July 1st, 2016 at 6:01 PM ^

Spot on about the tactics used. The tactics used to start the war didn't account for the advancement in weapons from the 1800's and thus the results you mentioned.

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UMProud

July 1st, 2016 at 6:11 PM ^

http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-53-blueprint-for-armageddon-iv/

Pushing the Combatants to the Breaking Point

Episode 53 – Blueprint for Armageddon IV Now Available!

Machine guns, barbed wire and millions upon millions of artillery shells create industrialized meat grinders at Verdun and the Somme. There’s never been a human experience like it…and it changes a generation.

 

Free trust me this is worth your time if you're a WW1 buff.  This episode talks about the Somme.  Credit to unknown MGo poster who put this up in a previous pocast thread.

 

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turtleboy

July 1st, 2016 at 6:17 PM ^

WW1 was a war of senseless mass slaughter on an unprecedented scale. There would've been many more Sommes, Ypres, Verduns, and Paschendaeles had the UK prime minister not told Haig he wasn't getting more reinforcements to squander. The "pals brigades" put entire cities in England into mourning and robbed them of whole generations overnight. Many European officers simply bought their commissions, and they deserve much more criticism than they already get. I can't begin to imagine the consequences of the United States not getting involved.

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UMProud

July 1st, 2016 at 6:31 PM ^

The allies would still have won without the United States.  The British Empire at that time had their pipeline of men fully turned on.  The US brought in a large wave of troops but the British could have brought men in from all over the world indefinitely.

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SalvatoreQuattro

July 1st, 2016 at 6:56 PM ^

That has nothing to do with Hitler. The Balfour Declaration was the British promising both Jews and Palestinians a homeland. The British, who seized what is now Israel/Palestine from the Turks, did not do that. They held onto the territory until after WWII when the current situation was created.

Antisemitism in Europe is thousands of years old and has manifested itself violently just as often. It is the world's oldest hate.The tinder was there long before Hitler was even born.

The fact that so many Communist revolutionaries were Jewish certainly did not help as the Kiel Mutiny towards the end of the war and the Communists seizure of both the National and Bavarian government after the war fed the nationalists belief that there was a "stab in the back" by Jewish Bolsheviks.



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micheal honcho

July 3rd, 2016 at 11:11 AM ^

Right but take a look at US newspapers before & after Balfour. There is a clear line of difference in US opinion towards Germany post Balfour. Hitler used it later as proof that the Jews had betrayed Germany by utilizing their international influence to bring the US into the war against Germany.
Why did Hitler make Jews wear that star on their clothes? Because during the years prior to and during WW1 that was what the proud zionists wore to show their solidarity towards a Jewish state in Israel. Something that the Kaiser had promised them after Germany defeated the colonial powers that currently possessed that region. When the war bogged down and back room peace talks started happening. The Zionists pursued Balfour to cut a deal favorable to their ultimate goal.



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DarkWolverine

July 1st, 2016 at 7:44 PM ^

Grandfather Was There
He was a Sargent and a machine gunner on the German side. Came to Flint in the early 20's and worked for Chevy until retirement. He loved the Tigers and rarely spoke of the war.



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a different Jason

July 1st, 2016 at 7:52 PM ^

The mines laid during the Somme were huge. The story of the miners is very interesting. How they would listen for other miners and blow a small charge entombing the other group. Awful yet riveting. And then Lochnagar, wow

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a different Jason

July 1st, 2016 at 7:52 PM ^

The mines laid during the Somme were huge. The story of the miners is very interesting. How they would listen for other miners and blow a small charge entombing the other group. Awful yet riveting. And then Lochnagar, wow

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Maizenblueball

July 1st, 2016 at 8:25 PM ^

Thanks for posting about this.  I've always loved studying about WW2 but don't know nearly as much about WW1.  I'm going to spend some time this weekend researching more about it, thanks to your post. 

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Wolverine In Iowa

July 1st, 2016 at 11:47 PM ^

Impressive - a lot of knowledgable people here, as usual.  As a history buff, names like "Verdun," "Ypres," "Paschendaele" give me chills.  The Somme was insane.  Battles from WWII that are scary to me are Okinawa and Stalingrad.

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LB

July 2nd, 2016 at 8:38 AM ^

Most impressive was the fact that no one suggested that the so-called leadership was "surprised" by the presence of machine guns.

If you find yourself in Kansas City with a free block of time, I would absolutely recommend a visit to the National WWI Museum and Memorial.

Tarawa, where the casualties after 76 hours equaled the casualties after 6 months of fighting on Guadalcanal. There is a book about Tarawa the describes a Marine in the 5th assault wave looking ahead and not seeing a single assault craft on the beach. Much of that was due to the presence of a reef. That disaster saw the birth of the UDTs, the forerunners of the present-day SEALs.

Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing and dying it was all done in vain
Oh Willy McBride it all happened again
And again, and again, and again, and again

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