Is Lavall Jordan our Izzo?

Submitted by UMxWolverines on
Think about it. Up and coming assistant like he was. Izzo took over for a good not great Jud Heathcote. Lavell is known as a great recruiter. Does he take over once Beilein hangs it up?
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recklessaBrandon

February 16th, 2016 at 9:50 PM ^

Why not? Even though we are football-first school Michigan has more than enough sports fandom/obsession and school "spirit"/pride to support 2 major sports teams that don't even share the same season. 

Also, we have some of the best facilities in all of college basketball and a ton of recruiting non-basketball recruiting ammo (Harbaugh can even be an asset--I know there have been posts here about how he has met with baseball recruits and they love it; baseball is more of a second tier college sport, but still). 

The Crisler environment is a bit weak compared to top basketball schools but we have really only had two great seasons, both of which were during the Brandon era of DJs, overselling student tickets, putting big donors close to the floor, etc.

I think we can (and have had--despite the cheating sanctions as everyone probably cheated in early 90s college bball) top tier football and basketball programs and coaches.

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Wolverine Devotee

February 16th, 2016 at 10:37 PM ^

I really don't have a good argument behind it now that I think about it. 

We did almost get Pitino in 2001 but once again, our AD wasn't doing his job and out playing golf or whatever ridiculous story it was.

Billy Donovan and Thad Matta weren't superstar coaches when they arrived at their schools. They both came from mid-majors in Marshall and Xavier (who was in the A-10 at the time).

I do think people are a little delusional in regards to our Basketball history. We aren't even in the top-50 all-time in wins. That's if you include the vacated games. 

Sure we won the national title in 1989, but that team wasn't exactly squeaky clean. 

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Wolverine Devotee

February 17th, 2016 at 12:08 AM ^

There was a John Beckett article when Steve Fisher was fired about golden handshakes taking place in the locker room after games. Can't find the link right now but I'll look for it and post it tomorrow morning in this thread if you're still interested.

Don has called into WTKA a few times mentioning it. I think he was the one that uploaded a few years ago.

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UMxWolverines

February 17th, 2016 at 12:22 AM ^

All it takes is the right coach. We've had a lot of talent but we've never had the combination of a great coach and great players at the same time. And yes, Steve Fisher is good not great. Besides the 1979 title MSU had little basketball history before Izzo. They had two final fours before him.

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brad

February 16th, 2016 at 10:03 PM ^

That's really only been true since the hoops program got nuked. Before that M had one of the only, if not the only, pairs of elite football and basketball programs in college sports.

May be hard to believe at this particular moment, but Michigan AD's makeup and its destiny are to be larger than any one sport, even football.



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jmblue

February 17th, 2016 at 9:11 AM ^

Fisher went 4-0 against Izzo.  It's possible he could have kept the advantage going.  He's shown at SDSU that he is in fact a good coach.

But it's correct that the sanctions (which weren't even levied until 2002) had nothing to do with our demise or MSU's rise, other than that they prompted us to fire Fisher and make a panic hire of Ellerbe.

 

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Wolverine Devotee

February 16th, 2016 at 11:48 PM ^

I saw Michigan Basketball at its worst ever. I was at several games in 2007-08 when the upper level was empty. 

The most I ever saw us win was an NIT until Stu and Zack led us to that first B1G title.

I'm no bandwagoner that throws the team under the bus when things get rough and gives up. I'm tired of these blowout losses and I thought we turned a corner in 2012-13 but what we did was return to our norm in having some great runs and then a down year. 

Matta at Xavier is not as impressive as Shaka Smart going from First Four to Final Four. 

All I'm asking is for people to have patience. We just built the program back up after it being a disaster for over a decade. 

 

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Jack Harbaugh

February 16th, 2016 at 11:31 PM ^

Tell me what superstar coaches you're referring to then? I know of exactly 0 "superstar" coaches that are willing to jump ship to another top program. Izzo, Coach K, Donovan, etc. were good coaches that built their programs. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

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Quailman

February 16th, 2016 at 10:47 PM ^

Yeah, no school known for football like Florida, Ohio State, Oklahoma, or anyone else can ever field a high-level bball program or land a good coach.

Superstar coaches won't be scared of the football coach. They are a superstar. If anything, they will realize the value of having a good football program and how it can help in recruiting. 

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Mr. Yost

February 17th, 2016 at 4:30 AM ^

Is this what we're going to do? A version of fire Beilein after every loss? Really? What did you expect with this team? Honestly. Those who are disappointed...what were your expectations? This team is not disappointing! They're exactly what they should've been if you know anything about basketball. There isn't ONE reason to rip Beilein now and not all the way back in July/August or even earlier when he was recruiting this incoming freshman class. Not one. Beilein is coaching this talent just as good as anyone else would. Izzo, Coach K, whoever...BUT THAT ISN'T THE PROBLEM! The problem is the talent!! And we haven't had any compared to the Final Four expectations that people have...so again, why are you disappointed now? Nothing changed. You should've been mad way back when Beilein was striking out on top recruits (with the exception of Chatman). You blame him for the state of the program, not his win/loss record in 2016. He's doing a very solid job with this team. This team just is very average at playing basketball with average talent compared to the teams we want to compete against.

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93Grad

February 17th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^

when the staff kept striking out on recruits in the 2014 and 2015 classes, but people like you probably brushed it all off with claims that every 2 star would be the next Spike or Novack and every 3 star would be Trey.  Those claims were ridiculous then and still are today.

JB is not a miracle worker.  Every  coach needs talent to win.  To compete at the highest levels you need high end talent.  This staff has repeatedly failed to pull in that high end talent over the last 3 years and this is the result.  

So while I agree it is not that surprising given the poor recruiting it is disappointing as hell because the excuses for the recruiting failures are total BS.

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Mr. Yost

February 17th, 2016 at 12:17 PM ^

HAHAHA!!!

I RIPPED Beilein for his recent recruiting.

That is literally the point of my rant.

It was basically "where the fuck where all of you when I was ripping Beilein for the poor recruiting classes....this is exactly what we got and he's doing well with what we got...but we shouldn't have this, we should have better."

That is truly what I was saying while trying not to put a middle finger up to you and the rest of the "In Beilein I Trust" supporters.

I think he's a GREAT coach. I think he's the best coach in the nation for Michigan. But I think he failed when it comes to recruiting after the Irvin/Walton class.

Oh...one more thing.

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7words

February 16th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^

I'll echo others in the post....... great recruiter???   I don't think we have even a good recruiter on this staff.   McGary was the only high level recruit we've reeled in that there was any competition for.  GR3 was an average recruit that blew up after he committed.  Stauskas was unknown.  Trey was decent and luckily OSU didn't have room for him.  Kam Chatman was severely over ranked it looks like.   Not sure "great recruiter" is something that you'd put in the Pros column for Jordan. 

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BlueIsland

February 17th, 2016 at 11:35 AM ^

As much as I respect Coach B, he has done a horrible job this year. We made that jump to the title game because he allowed his assistants to have more input and he became less rigid. He has taken a total step backwards this year.

The assistants (Bacari especially) convinced Coach B that in order to win that elusive championship, you have to the size, skill and athleticism to compete with the Kentuckys and Louisvilles. That's why we have two legit bigs in the recruiting class with already four on the roster. With the losses last season, and early this season, he has decided to double down on what he knows best, spreading the floor with a stretch four.

Duncan Robinson's early success convinced Coach B, he can play his way and win. There is no reason why Wagner, Wilson and Chatman should be sitting all game. You need to get those guys minutes at the four (with Chatman more minutes at the three). Robinson is playing entirely too many minutes at the four spot. Please believe, Irvin is not a four in this offense. Robinson plays the exact role Novak and GRIII played.

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HarbaughorBust

February 16th, 2016 at 10:04 PM ^

Bacari would love more than anything to recruit inner city kids.  Kids that play with dog in them.   Post players where athleticism is their main trait, not outside jump shots.  

Do you think it was Bacari's idea to go after Donnal in small town NW ohio?   How about making Doyle the first offer in the 2014 class?  That is JB.  

JB cares more about a kid's personality and basketball IQ over raw ability.   Our assistants are looking at a very limited pool of players with that criteria.


Now let's look at exactly what Bacari is suppose to work on in practice.  What do our big guys do within the offense?  They set screens and occasionally get the ball when they roll.  Occasionally shoot a 3.

There's no back to the basket option in the offense.  There's no face up game.  The offense is never ran through the post no matter who the opponent is.   So not only is Bacari's hands tied with the traits JB is looking for, he's trying to sell kids on an offense where they will be an after thought.

People will point to McGary and usually fail to mention that was for about a 10 game stretch.  Opposing coaches will point to 10 years of coaching philosophy when going up against Michigan for an elite big.  

At this point, I've conceded, we'll never land another elite big.  I just want one with above average athleticism and plays p!ssed off. 

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BlueIsland

February 17th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^

Everyone on this board routinely dismissed Jon Horford's parting shots as he left the program but it is what it is. One of the positives he mentioned was the coaching he received from Bacari. So many ppl on this board are UM fans not basketball fans and speak from their fandom.

Bacari started at center (at 6'4) four two U-Detroit NCAA tournament teams. I've seen him play up close and personal at St. Ceceilia, he was no joke in the post. Great defender and rebounder.

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MGoBender

February 17th, 2016 at 7:39 PM ^

Well, in full team practices I believe they run 10 minute periods most of the time.  You have pretty limited time in practice to get a lot done.  I'd argue that 10 minutes of team practice is a lot to devote to post practice. Frankly, that's something that gets developed in the off-season - like shooting free throws.  The old adage: Players get better in the off-season, teams get better during the season.

During practice, you start breaking down minutes and there's not ever going to be much more than 10 minutes to spend on a specific skill.  That's why coaches work hard to develop drills and competitions that combine different skills.  10 min on post play, 10 min of form shooting (which Beilein always does and rightfully so), 10 min of face-up attacking, 10 min of shell/close out drills, 10 min of rebounding, 10 min of 3-point drills, 10 min running the floor/transition drills.  We're up to 70 minutes without even getting into full team offense, full team defense, OOB plays, etc.

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