Why You Should (Or Shouldn't) Subscribe To A Recruiting Service Comment Count

Brian

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SO MANY CLICKY CLICKS

Hello. At MGoBlog, we link all kind of things. Some of these things are behind paywalls. We've always tried to leave something useful behind those paywalls, whether that's by only quoting a few sentences or leaving it alone for days or months before we get around to our post on Player X. (With few exceptions, this site goes for thoroughness over immediacy.) But occasionally what we do raises hackles.

Sometimes we get yelled at for quoting people. Sometimes we get yelled at for not quoting people. Usually when people get mad I say "if you want we can stop using your stuff" and they say "well…," because a link with a ($) is also an ad for them. Comments here will occasionally say "I dropped my subscription to X because of MGoBlog" and while that's accurate for that guy it's clearly not accurate for everybody.

Here's the lay of the land when it comes to Michigan recruiting sites.

What we do

We have twice-weekly roundups of whatever's out there, from the three major recruiting services (Rivals, 247, and Scout) or newspapers or blogs with original reporting.

When a player commits we do a Hello post that summarizes the player's rankings, offers, stats, and scouting. We'll revisit them after Signing Day in the recruiting profiles.

What they do

Daily updates with indications as to where recruits are leaning—not gospel, broadly accurate. More in depth scouting. Some video, though these days Hudl has all the highlights you care to watch.

They also have program stuff—every site had extensive coverage of the coaching search. While that doesn't differentiate them much from this space, they have insider stuff on practices, players to watch, coaching moves, the works. The recent shoe contract negotiations are a better example. Most of them were publishing stuff about it more frequently than we did.

In general, they publish more, and more frequently, and are better-connected to the program. We will use a subsection of their posts later—often months later—in order to give you an overview of the recruiting situation or a particular player.

Why to subscribe

If you go into withdrawal between Monday and Thursday recruiting roundups; if you would like to have a very good feel for where player X is leaning; if you want their scouting more completely and (sometimes) much more quickly; if you want the comprehensive inside chatter now and not later.

Each also has a message board community. We have a message board community, but it's not for everybody. It can be harsh around here for people who don't fit; it is possible that certain MGoBlog readers will find a community of like-minded fans on a premium site elsewhere. That alone can be worth more than the cost of admission.

[After THE JUMP: an overview of your options.]

Which one?

This will be a matter of personal preference. Full disclosure: I do radio with Sam weekly, Tim Sullivan and Brandon Brown of Rivals used to work for MGoBlog, Tom Van Haaren of ESPN used to work for MGoBlog, and I tried to hire Steve Lorenz of 24/7 just before 24/7 started a Michigan site. Oh, and Isaiah Hole, who is shooting for 24/7, also works with us.

ESPN

Pros:

  • Cheap.
  • You also get John Gasaway columns.
  • Tom's a good dude.

Cons:

  • They send you a magazine like it's 1950 or something.
  • They've moved away from day-to-day recruiting coverage. Tom is now regional and doesn't talk about Michigan too much any more. You get the scouting reports with your insider subscription and not much else.

If you get Insider it's probably not for the recruiting content. It is cheaper than everywhere else and gives you access to other useful content, however.

SCOUT

Pros:

  • In my e-pinion, Sam is the most plugged in guy. There is no question he is for basketball. He was ahead of the curve when he said Michigan had a very legit shot for Jaylen Brown and has been on point on just about every recruiting event there. Sam gets a lot of stuff direct from coaches, and there's a big difference between that and getting stuff from people who were at practice.
  • He's also the most plugged in for football, though that's a closer competition. Remember when Michigan brought in Tyrone Wheatley for an interview and Sam couldn't report on it because he knew Wheatley too well? Yeah.
  • National or regional Scout guys are pretty responsive on their message boards. They seem to do the best job in that department; posts from Brian Snow and Allen Trieu are frequent.

Cons:

  • The software is broke-ass. They've put some effort into it lately, but I'm still using their old board code to read the board because the new stuff broke my back button.
  • Now there's auto-playing video everywhere. A number of their articles are video interviews with recruits with no transcription, or two guys talking about recruits with no transcription.
  • Not that this is going to come up much, but their SEO is horrendous. Google a recruit and the front page will have 24/7, Rivals, and ESPN pages for the kid. Scout will be way down the list. I don't have much confidence in the Scout management, since they appear to be chasing metrics instead of thinking about how to serve their customers.

Scout's message board has recently undergone a makeover with the departure of Tom Beaver. For reasons inexplicable to me, this incensed a number of people who left. On the other hand, this allowed Sam to bring back a few posters that Beaver had run off. One who now goes by "SqdScoops" dumps big posts with links to everything about Michigan just about every day. If UV is not frequent or catholic enough for you that would be an asset. DOTMAN is also now a mod there, and he's providing a series of interesting interviews that are unlike any other content out there.

Scout is the middle porridge in message boards these days. 24/7 feels like it skews young and Rivals old; Scout's in the middle.

24/7

Pros:

  • Lorenz is very good and also very good at not embroidering his information so it seems like it's more important than it is. You go there, you get the information, and then you have it. I appreciate the directness. I have things to do.
  • They're the newest network and the software is the best. I am constantly hitting up player pages for information and these days I go to 24/7 first.
  • Can be super cheap if you catch them at the right time.
  • If you subscribe to 24/7 they let you read all their premium message boards, not just Michigan's. I may or may not have scoured Kentucky and Kansas boards during the Jaylen Brown recruitment.

Cons:

  • They don't have a particularly complete network right now. 24/7 is weak for basketball in general, and a lot of schools don't have much in terms of a community. This makes the "you can read everything" aspect a little less powerful.
  • Neither do they have a lot of depth past Steve at the Michigan site. Some guys come and go but other than Isaiah I couldn't tell you their names at the moment.

24/7's message board is hyperactive and seems to skew young. Most of it is accessible to non-subscribers, as they don't split into premium and regular halves. They have running threads in which they assemble most things of interest.

RIVALS

Pros:

  • They have some excellent in-depth content. Tim Sullivan will often go to games and come back with a relatively unvarnished take on a particular recruit. Brandon's started doing this as well. They regularly ping opposing coaches for their take on players for informative posts. Other sites will have live scouting from time to time, but when I do the recruiting profile posts I find those the most helpful. Recruits within a reasonable drive of Michigan who commit before their senior years will get a ton of scouting.
  • Mike Spath is the most plugged in guy for hockey. If you care about hockey, he is basically the only choice.
  • Spath also does those posts from Media Day in which he exchanges anonymity for real talk. Those are amongst the most interesting content you'll see from a premium site all year.
  • Rivals has its own camp series that only they scout.

Cons:

  • Mike Farrell, their national guy, can be highly annoying. For example, after Zach Gentry switched to Michigan there were three or four articles questioning the wisdom of that decision since Michigan had Alex Malzone.
  • I'm torn about the utility of their "Inside The Fort" posts. Often when I read them I wonder if I actually learned anything afterwards. This is the opposite of what Lorenz is good at: he gets in and out with things that are clearly information. Sometimes an ITF will have some people saying things may or may not happen, or they'll repeat coachspeak from anonymous sources.
  • Basketball coverage is clearly one or two steps removed from the coaches. A lot of it boils down to "I don't believe this will happen because this guy is getting paid."
  • I find a lot of their insider practice content to be at odds with reality. A recent example: 6'4" Jeremy Clark apparently moved to corner and was getting a lot of run. That makes me nervous; Rivals played it up like this was a great thing.

Rivals's message board can be fusty—it's the most likely place to host complaints about kids getting paid by the $EC and O$U lol. It's also the last place on the internet to have Brandon defenders. They do a good job of responding to questions and have a couple of insider posters who have been accurate in the past. Interactions with national analysts can get testy.

Comments

FreddieMercuryHayes

August 19th, 2015 at 1:05 PM ^

I no longer have any subscriptions, but that's mostly because 1) The MGoBoard is legit my favorite message board community and I approach thinking about sports in the same way the writers of this blog do, and 2) all the recruiting stuff is crazy addicting and too much time and intangled too much of my emotions into college choices of 17 year olds.

Brightside

August 19th, 2015 at 1:09 PM ^

As you get to know some of the personalities of the regular posters MGoBlog is more like a bunch of friends hanging out and talking about all manner of things.  On Topic or OT, there is always an intersting debate or sharing of wisdom...

Of course, just like in college, an occasional fight breaks out among friends, but hey, we are all passionate people.  In common we share a love for all things Michigan.  We all bring a different background and perspective but are united in our Fandom.

Go Blue!

TheFugitive

August 19th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^

It's free and Dylan is a great writer.  Don't forget to check their site out for squeakyfloor news.

 

 

Edit: In addition to MGoBlog, I go to UMHoops.  Brian and Ace regularly link their site.

redsoxaa

August 19th, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^

I use 24/7 because of Steve.  He may not have every scoop out there, but he is conservative in his takes and seems to genuinely care about his subscribers.  Also, skewing young seems like a good buisiness decision to me.

The Mad Hatter

August 19th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^

people that pay for online content.  Especially when all that content consists of is news, rumors, and information.

What is to stop someone from subscribing to each of the premium sites and just recycling the content provided on their own platform?

JayMo4

August 19th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^

I'd be much more likely to subscribe to any service that doesn't auto-renew your membership.  This is far and away my #1 complaint about these sites.  If you have confidence in the quality of your service, there is no need to rely on people not paying attention as a primary method of retention.

Due to a brief issue with unforseen expenses, I tried to cancel Scout last year on the renewal date, and they didn't let me because I missed the deadline by a matter of hours.  I talked to multiple people on the phone (calmly and politely, I might add) and could not get anyone to budge.  They would not cancel, they would not pro-rate, they wouldn't change my year-by-year to a month-by-month and refund the difference... their response was, and I'm barely paraphrasing at all:  "You agreed to these terms, this is a binding contract."  The tone I encountered was about a half step short of "Naa naa, we got you!"

They made no effort to compromise, and did literally nothing to satisfy me as a long time customer and potential future customer.  In their minds, it was more important to get one more year out of me based on a technicality than to get many more years because their customer service had impressed me enough that once my budget allowed, I would come back.  I'd been a member there for almost a decade at that point, and that counted for nothing.  So while I likely would have returned (the money issues blew over shortly after,) and returned to spending $100 a year for several more years, I'm done with Scout forever and advising others to avoid getting into the same mess they stuck me in.

UMForLife

August 19th, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^

I was a junkie on mlive (or whatever they used to be for M). Things get rough at mlive. Dealing with other fans, especially the sparty's was fun for a while, as I can be a dick also. But it gets old soon. MGoBlog is the best site for me. I read everything, but comment rarely. I see bloggers recognize each others' tendencies and comment on it. There is a place for a person like me who doesn't engage that often. This site design can be better, but I have to say that I like what we have, as it loads pretty fast even on a phone. I will take simplicity over hardcore blogging with fancy technology. Brian is one of the best out there and this very article is proof of that. Getting up to the minute info is not what I value. I value good analysis at a good pace with decent people around and this site does that for me. I guess I wouldn't go anywhere else, thanks to Brian and his team.

gewimin

August 19th, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^

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InterM

August 19th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^

Do Scout/Rivals/247/ESPN provide fabulous money-making tips like this?

Edit:  this comment doesn't make nearly as much sense now that the spammer to whom I was responding has been caved.  But rest assured, you CAN make bucketfuls of money working out of your home . . . .

MDisciple87

August 19th, 2015 at 2:14 PM ^

Nice takes and pretty accurate, though you forgot Clint Brewster on 24/7. He does good things as well and his 'what the coaches see in player X' are always pretty good.

His Dudeness

August 19th, 2015 at 2:21 PM ^

The Rivals ITF stuff is super weird. They have gotten a bit better but often times they basically say "I know something but I can't tell you or else I wont get told anything anymore..."

 

So it's like "Thanks?"

Also the board is the dumbest shit you've ever seen.

OT: I have a pool of blood pooling around my ankle right now, what should I do?

OT: I just divorced my wife last night because she said I was on the Fort too much

OT: Do you ever get in fights with your GF via text

Are all actual examples of posts. It's THE stupid segment of the poluation of Michigan SPROTS fandome.

 

Atlanta_Blue

August 19th, 2015 at 3:34 PM ^

LOL, this is 100% true. The OT posts on The Fort (the Rivals premium message board) are hilariously bad at times. There are also a high number of posters afflicted by some combination of 1) extreme political views that they are unable to keep to themselves; 2) extremely bad grammar/spelling; and/or 3) extreme stupidity. And of course, those are the people who tend to post the most.

trustBlue

August 19th, 2015 at 2:38 PM ^

I used to subcribe to Rivals, but quit a little over year ago when I realized that I was allowing Michigan football to take up too much of life for something that was bringing me nothing but pain.

Now I check MGoBlog "only" 7-8 times a day and my life feels much more balanced. Rivals produces tons of new content daily so there's always something to feed the urge for news compared to MGoBlog, which sometimes goes a day or two without new content.  

Rivals is certainly better for recruiting, especially locally. But since quitting Rivals I've started caring about recruiting less and less, and frankly, I like it better this way. 

Balas and Borton (Rivals) seem pretty plugged in to the program. I think they were pretty plugged in to the previous coaching staff, though I'm not sure how close they are with Harbaugh (not sure anybody really is).  But a lot of their insider stuff comes from former players and the like. 

MgoBlog is the best for in depth analysis of things like matchups, scheme, players' strengths and weaknesses etc.  The in-season UFRs are amazing, as well as some of the off-season stuff like the game by game breakdowns for Rudock.  You could build a premium site just around that stuff. 

Rivals is focused more on traditional "reporting" - more interviews, more up to the minute, etc. but doesn't really offer anything similar in terms of proprietary analysis.  

One thing I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet is that the Rivals "National board" should be avoided at all costs and at all times by all people of good conscience and moral character.  I'm not easily offended, but that place is an absolute cesspool of rascism and misogyny.  

Sopwith

August 19th, 2015 at 3:02 PM ^

I've been a subscriber to the former since about 2007 and discovered MGoBlog just after RR was hired. I think of it as being a little closer to the party line and getting the establishment view, then getting the guerrila, funnier, more cynical takes on here. The discussion board here is the only discussion board I post on in the entire interwebs.

For the most part, I only go to Rivals to read the "Hot Board" for position-group recruiting summaries and, more than anything, the ITF posts. That's what makes it worth the bucks for me personally. Their insiders seem to be pretty solid-- one example is the summer of 2010, when locals here were speculating if Denard could ever turn into a starting QB at the Div I level and any suggestion that he would be starting the opener vs. UConn was met mostly with derision and sky-is-falling panic. Over at Rivals, we had been hearing all spring and through fall camp that Denard had passed up Tate in work ethic and development over the offseason and he'd be the starter, and a capable one. The reports and observations from insidery insiders seem legit enough on balance. When a rumor is just that, they say so and state degree of confidence in the source. 

Just over the past week, they've had 2-3 ITF posts that would have triggered 100+ post threads had the info been posted here. I find it useful and it gives this addict a satisying hit. Of course, as Brian mentioned, much of this comes down to paying to get some info a few days or maybe weeks before everyone else. I might drop it eventually. But if Michigan sports news overkill is wrong, I don't want to be right.

123blue

August 19th, 2015 at 3:21 PM ^

I signed up for Scout when they ran a crazy special.  Don't recall the exact amount but something like a year for $10.  Anyway, they would be worlds better if they used the MGo guidelines for thread titles (and content, actually).  I can't tell you how many threads are "player name" or "I heard".  Then, the body is often just a link to another page on Scout or, worse, a video without any bullet points of the content.

Frankly, Dotman is the worst offender when it comes to useless thread titles and also cryptic nonsense, super-insidery stuff that only basement cave dwellers understand.  Sam has great content and overall, it's certainly worth $10/year!  I just wish they'd make the tiny changes to improve the site.  My guess is that they value the additional clicks over user experience.

The Geek

August 19th, 2015 at 3:38 PM ^

MGoBlog and other sites during work hours, I absolutely loathe auto-playing video. If I find myself scrambling to mute the speakers or hit the back button, I'm probably not going to visit that site again.

It's so damn presumptuous.

BeatOSU52

August 19th, 2015 at 11:02 PM ^

I remember when ESPN at a premium Michigan board a few years ago called the M-Den.  It was great because Tom VH was there all day answering questions and for the most part all the posters got along.  But then ESPN screwed it all up.  I still subscribe as an insider there mainly because I llike all the fantasy content you get and also am a big fan of their baseball insider writers.