Article On Letting Harbaugh Help Pick His Boss (AD) At Michigan
November 7th, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
I'm been lurking for over over 5 years and only this post has stirred me enough to register and post a reply. We all laughed at OSU AD Gee when he said he hoped Tressel wouldn't fire him. Gee's statement was a clear indication that the OSU's AD and university were subservient to the football program; a situation that most thought was an abomination and showed how bad an institution OSU actually is. Now, there is a serious suggestion that Michigan go one step further (not just joke about it like Gee) but actually put the football coach in charge of hiring his own boss.
I know the last 6-7 years have been hard, but have they been so hard that we are rushing to tarnish the University just to get a football coach? Are we so desperate to beat the SEC, that we want to become them, handing the keys to the instiution to the football coach if it will get us wins?
If you are willing to give Harbaugh this much power before he is even hired just think what power he will have and circumstances will be overlook if he actually wins.
I guess I just value my degrees and the University's reputation too much to degrade them for whatever it takes to win at football.
We need to get a grip. Harbaugh is only a football coach. He is not the second coming of Bo,Yost, and Crisler rolled into one -- even if he was he is still just a football coach and I still wouldn't do this.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^
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November 7th, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^
Thanks for the correction. I caught that right after I posted. IT just proves my point even more. OSU was derided for its president's joking subservience to its football coach. Now people want UM to go one better and actually make the new president subservient to the football coach.
Eleven Warriors and Red Cedar would rightfully laugh at us.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
Now people want UM to go one better and actually make the new president subservient to the football coach.
As the one who would be the most impactful in protecting the annual $85 million (direct) football cashflow, it seems reasonable to me that a highly successful football coach would have the most defacto power in the athletic department. Afterall, the successful football coach would be bringing the most to the table.
But the successful football coach's domain would be just the athletic department and its resources as they relate to football.
Show me one example of a well-received suggestion that Harbaugh should have more power than Schlissel.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
Exactly what I tried saying below, but you were much more eloquent than I was. The two positions work so closely together and are most responsible for the success/failure of the department (right or wrong) that getting an agreement between the two is important. In this instance, I think its a good idea to have JH consult on the hire because it sends a message that the department values his opinion.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:53 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:34 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:43 AM ^
Desperation to win football games -- in conference out of conference, even national championship -- is not a reason to sacrifice the University. Remeber football, no matter how much we love it, is only a game.
Michigan is the leaders and best and relevant regardless of the football team's record. Football will ebb and flow (see 1960's), but if we ruin the University's reputation chasing a football coach and winning recorrd that will take much longer to repair.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:15 AM ^
do you insist that there's a sacrifice involved (to the university) if the possible new football coach has input to the new AD? Its not the new president, its the AD...the person who's success and failure is closely tied to that coach? I'm having trouble accepting your assertions that UM is somehow cheapening itself or hurting itself by asking a successful coach who he thinks he could work well with.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:39 AM ^
This is not the case where a corporation ask its already employed executives for their input on possible hires. This is going to a prospective employee and asking them who they think should be there boss. Implicit (if not explicit) in making that query is whomever the prospective employee wants will be hired. This essentially gives the prospective employee the final say on the hiring. In this case it gives a prosepective football coach, not even the current coach, veto power over the hiring. The president then becomes secondary to the football coach. Again, OSU was humiliated for days by even suggesting this. The very idea is damaging to the University.
In practice it would be worse. Say Harbaurgh is consulted and doesn't become Michigan's next coach. I can only imagine the outcry when it's leaked/rumored that Harbaugh said he'd would have come to Michiagn if Brad Bates was hired but Schlissel hired Jeff Long. Or if Schlissel does hire whomever Harbaugh annoints, there always be the question of who has the real power and authority in the athletic department - the football coach, the guy the football coach hired or the university president who was told by the football coach to hire the AD. Does Harbaugh also get the authority to fire the ADif he can't work well with him?
Do we really want to start down this path just to win some football games?
November 7th, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 10:22 AM ^
Coaches like Beilein and Harbaugh are the all-stars in this situation. It's not "degrading" to make sure the person hired to be their boss is not going to drive them away (or, as in JH's case, keep him from coming in the first place). It's just being realistic.
November 7th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
When you are paying an employee 4-5-6 million a year, that person has gone beyond normal employee status. That person is a VIP. And VIPs get perks that the rest of us don't get, like getting input on who their boss is. Hell, if Harbaugh is the coach, he will make a lot MORE money than the AD does. So yeah, why wouldn't he have input on who the AD is? He shouldn't get to directly pick the AD, nor should he be allowed to control that person once he/she is hired. But as the highest paid and probably most important employee in the athletic department, giving Harbaugh input into who the AD was going to be certainly wouldn't be out of the question. GIving Belein input wouldn't be nuts either.
November 7th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
whether Harbaugh is the second coming of Bo, Yost and Crisler rolled into one until we hire him and see what he is capable of doing at UM!!!
November 7th, 2014 at 4:17 PM ^
Assuming he's interested...
Pay him (JH) and his staff well, and minimize his non-football obligations. Assure him the next AD will be the anti-DB - experienced, competent, low-profile (no EGO) - and that he (JH) will have autonomy over all things football.
Paint that picture for him, and I don't think he gives a shit who the AD is, as long as that AD just leaves him alone.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^
He's obviously a great coach but let's just say, and I don't necessarily blame him for this, a "volatile situation" is created wherever he goes. Why would it be any different at Michigan? What's been his longest stay at any head coaching job? Four years? How long would he be at Michigan before he pisses everyone off? Again, I'm not blaming him for this, but his intensity, his best quality and the reason he wins, wears on people. He doesn't care if you like him or not, and he won't give the warm and fuzzy press conferences fans here seem to need.
Has he said he even wants to coach college football again? And what happens in three years when the Colts or the Bears or whoever offers him their "head coaching and GM" job? Everything about him suggests he goes for the new challenge. People have some knight-in-shining-armor fantasy for this guy, like if we only get Harbaugh we've solved our football problems forever, but there's nothing to suggest that's the case.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^
and I promise I won't be pissed off.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 10:29 AM ^
1. No one could say he's not a "Michigan Man."
2. He wins big wherever he goes.
3. He knows how to win without cutting academic corners (see Stanford).
4. He apparently wears on professional players. Bo would have worn on pro players too, so wearing on NFL guys isn't inherently a problem.
5. No one else comes close to matching all of Harbaugh's qualities as far as Michigan is concerned.
I'm not expecting him to come to Michigan. And there are other good coaches out there. But it's reasonable to see Harbaugh as far and away the best possible coach for Michigan.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^
For a second I thought I missed a pretty epic thread.
November 7th, 2014 at 11:00 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 9:44 AM ^
I don't think this is the mindset that President S is going to have. My opinion is that JH is THE guy that has to be the #1 choice to bring all the M people back together. But does the President and administration think that? My concern is they think a "good" coach is someone who wins 8-9 games a year and keeps the players out of the headlines. I can guess they won't have the idea that any 1 guy is that critically important.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
Do whatever it takes. Period.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:58 AM ^
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November 7th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
The article develops strikingly similar ideas and in the same sequence as expressed in mgoblog posts three days ago.
“Seek input about the AD hire from possible coach candidates eg, Mullen, Miles, the Harbaughs, etc. Who does he think would do a good job, which possible AD is the coach familiar with, and who would he like to work with?
Such input would be especially crucial if we want a FB coach with a strong personality. That coach may not want to work for an equally controlling and demanding boss.
So, we don't just want the guy who, in theory, should be the best AD. We also need somebody whose relationships, in practice, would attract the best FB coach.”
Comment: "So you want the football coach to hire the AD? Are you a buckeye? Sounds like something an OSU AD once said."
Response. “An elite FB coach has more options and more lucrative ones than an excellent AD. That is why the FB coach makes 5-10x what the AD makes. So, an elite coach is likely to wield a lot of informal power, even if his "boss" has the formal power.
Suppose, then, that we wanted to get Jim Harbaugh. Given his past power struggles with his bosses, he'd not likely come unless he felt very comfortable with his new AD. So why not consult him?
Comment:"The reality I see is that these coaches know very few of the possible AD candidates. What they do know of them may have little to do with most of the AD's job. Asking them who we should hire strikes me as unprofessional. What if we vet their choice and find him unsuitable? If we're trying to hire a coach before the AD, maybe the coaching candidates will have a chance to give some input. If there was an AD candidate they wouldn't be willing to work with, I'd be surprised, but that would be good to know."
Response. “It would not surprise me that a coach would object to some ADs. Harbaugh, who likes control, reportedly would not want to work under a control freak like Dave Brandon. Can you see Brandon sitting with Harbaugh watching film and telling him what would work? ...or telling him to fire his OC and hire somebody else?
Regrdless of these rumored events actually occurred, many people would be wise to consider bosses' personalities before taking a job. Wise candidates often try to get information about the bosses from former or current employees or associated staff.. A coach who believes he could be offered the UM HC job--and has strong motivation to come here--also could ask others to gather more information about the AD candidates before giving UM an opinion of them.
Coaches are asked all the time their opinion about potential coaching hires--so why not about potential ADs? Granted, it would seem unprofessional for Schlissel to call a coach like Harbaugh and directly ask him what AD Harbaugh wants UM to choose. That would never happen. But there are often far more indirect ways to pose questions and get information via intermediaries.”
November 7th, 2014 at 10:13 AM ^
I want to say that I'd be all for Harbaugh picking his own AD, and part of me really is, but something about that really doesn't feel right if we have to go to that extreme. For one, it completely reiterates the fact that we're desperate. Rightly so, given the current state of affairs in our program. But two, it would make me wonder if the new AD would give much thought to the other sports if he's "Harbaugh's man."
That was one thing I liked about DB. He invested heavily in our non-revenue sports and gave them the best facilities in America. If Harbaugh is allowed to pick his own guy, there's the small chance he picks someone who's really only going to give a crap about the football team and what Harbaugh has to say.
I'd like to think, though, that Harbaugh's a reasonable man, and he'd recognize that football isn't the only sport on campus. Especially now that we've got a top-flight basketball program, a perennially good hockey team, and several elite non-revenue teams. As long as he picked a competent AD who has the best interest of ALL our student athletes in mind, I could live with him picking his own man. At the end of the day, football is the money-maker on campus. May not be fair sometimes to the rest of the student athletes, but that's just the way it is. That being said, if Harbaugh just wants his own yes man, I'd really rather pass on him.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
Interesting article? Ok. "Makes sense"? Definitely not. I know it's really hard to maintain perspective on what type of institution Michigan is when you're a rabid fan of the football team, which most of us are, but this is a non-starter. We are not a school where the coach of a sports team has such influence over the administration of the university, that's just absurd. There are faculty members who make more money than their administrative superiors, but they don't 'pick their own boss'.
Look who the regents picked to be our new president - a man without a clue about D1 sports. That's how important football is to the overall administration and direction of the university. We're not a football school, we're a world-class research institution with a proud athletic tradition.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
...we were talking about letting Harbaugh help choose the school's president. But we're talking about the athletic director. The athletic director isn't going to tell the engineering, business, etc. schools what to do.
I wouldn't let Harbaugh choose the new athletic director by himself. But giving him input is a different story.
November 7th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
He should only get "input" if he's already on staff. The FC choosing the person who will oversee all sports, all AD compliance and academic requirements, and facilities development? No way.
We're not a school that chooses a 'fundraiser' as a president, a la that school in Columbus, we choose a brilliant academic administrator with the ability to take on that role. Similarly, we're not a school that focuses on football performance when deciding how and by whom the AD is going to be run and to integrate with the mission of the university. Thankfully. I love the team and I've been drowning my sorrows on Saturdays this fall like most of you but I never lose sight of why I attended and why I love and support the U decades later.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^
If Harbaugh were to call Schlissel and say "I am really interested in coming to Michigan. The arrows are pointing in the right direction, and I think we can really make this work, especially if we can get Bates on board." You really do not think Michigan would pull the trigger on this and hire Brad Bates?
November 7th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
No, I don't. I think Schlissel would turn the matter over to Jim Hackett, probably with a caveat about new hires not picking their own bosses.
There's been some mention on this board of Schlissel being "Duderstadt 2", in a negative way. I hope he is: the U thrived under Duderstadt and so did the football team, winning 4 or 5 B1G championships. It was a fantastic time to be part of the U community.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
Bacon say that he went to grade school with Jim. They played sports together at a young age. I don't know as if i have ever heard his say, "Jim is my friend". We all went to elementary school with many, but it doesn't make us friends 30 years later.
November 7th, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^
Football now and I'm sure he's seen how the money flows. He's also putting people in place who know what they're doing.
What bigger way to let students and alumni know the leadership is listening to them than to go out and get the coach that every person under the Sun says is the perfect guy for Michigan.
We like Harbaugh's passion just like we loved Schembechler's passion and their commitment to what is right no matter the outside influences is another thing we love. There's no right time to do the wrong thing and there's no wrong time to do the right thing.
Khakis, head sets, passion, strategy, setting up your next move, 10 year war, Tight End over the middle, two tight ends, calling your shot, etc. etc.
How much more do we need to see. He is the future of Michigan Football and the students and alumni love him for his passion and honesty. Even if that honesty means calling out his alma mater for going astray.
The Team, The Team, The Team.....
Hail.
November 7th, 2014 at 11:12 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 6:36 PM ^
I agree with Mittelstadt..........great points......GO BLUE
November 7th, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^
I love Harbaugh obviously but his first three season records at Stanford look vaguely familiar...
I love pounding how good a coach RR was into your brains.
IF we get Harbaugh, hell IF we get my fucking grandpa I expect this fanbase to treat that person with respect and support for five seasons before casting old man crapping his pants judgement.
FIVE SEASONS, folks.
Prepare thy anus's
November 7th, 2014 at 11:01 AM ^
Are you saying we should give Hoke another year?
November 7th, 2014 at 11:10 AM ^
Normally I would say yes, but Hoke being runnoft now would kind of sort of make what you morons did to RR right in my wormy brain... so... no screw Hoke, he sucks at everything.
But starting NOW we have to give 5 years minimum and then judge. Nothing worse for an organization than instability.
November 7th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 7:59 PM ^
November 7th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
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November 7th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
If youre a great coach and leader it's all apples.
Why would anyone walk into a job and think they cant win there.
Also Michigans expectations are far too high for how they play the game. If you do the things the SEC is willing to do then you can claim the same expectations. We don't, so we shouldn't.
And I think you all know what our expectations are as a program. We aren't competing for National Titles.
From the horses mouth: "B1G titles are what our goals are."
So... yep. Pretty much apples to apples I'd say.
Michigan needs to stop living in the past.
November 7th, 2014 at 9:56 PM ^
and that has nothing to do with the SEC.