Frank Chuck

August 10th, 2021 at 10:22 AM ^

Actually, the problem was the 2017 DL class (which Greg Mattison helped recruit).

From that class, we went 1/8.That's right - we had 7 washouts (re: busts, transfers, medical retirements, etc.) That's no different than how how poorly Hoke did w/r/t his recruited OL. Donovan Jeter can slightly change the final rating but I'm not holding my breath.

In fact, it was the lowest ranked DL player (Kwity Paye) who ended up doing anything meaningful.

People forget that Mattison left after the 2018 season concluded. He was largely responsible for recruiting the 2017 and 2018 DL classes.

Mattison could coach DL well but he played a major part in the rapid decline of our defense. Blaming it purely on Don Brown is revisionist bullshit.

Brown recruited size. That size turned out to be mostly forgettable names. And now the DL is trapped in a vicious cycle. We have to hope that Mazi Smith and Chris Hinton are finally ready to make a sustained impact.

Joined: 05/01/2015

MGoPoints: 15916

Aspyr

August 10th, 2021 at 2:05 PM ^

Chris Partridge, Brown and Mattison all shared D recruiting in 17 & 18 and this was Brown's defense starting in 2016 so he was looking to add the guys he wanted to make it work. Still the talent was there in 2017 (5th ranked class) but less so in 2018 - Hutchinson, Welschof and Upshaw were the only DL recruits.

Mattison was also the reason for the DL success during the Hoke years - which carried over to the first two years of Harbaugh. When Harbaugh took over in 2015 he went from the DC to the DL coach only so that decision is on Harbaugh. 

 

Joined: 06/21/2012

MGoPoints: 2576

bronxblue

August 10th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^

Yeah, Brown had his flaws but a lot of blame was heaped on him for reasons that didn't jive with reality.  And when you look at Mattison at OSU he doesn't seem to be heavily involved in recruiting; his last commitment was an OT from De La Salle in 2019.  So while he's still a good coach he may have been starting to falter on the recruiting trail a bit his last couple years at UM.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172170

goblue2121

August 10th, 2021 at 9:59 AM ^

I don't believe so. The strong side end typically doesn't put up ridiculous pass rushing stats. They often get moved inside on passing situations to provide interior penetration. Gary was used the same way. Winovich, Uche etc were in a better position on the weak side to focus more on pass rush. Kwity is not a situational DL and can move all over the front which is why he provides great value to an NFL team. 

Joined: 06/06/2009

MGoPoints: 11055

MGoStrength

August 10th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^

I've heard many times and the DEs had to stay inside and help more with run support which limited their pass rush.  We were high on the cool aid of Hutch & Paye last year.  That never panned out due to injuries, but also apparently the weak DTs.  But, if you recall the short period of time when both were healthy.  I think at one point we had 3 sacks in a row and two of them were Kwity against Minnesota once they were behind in the game in the 4th quarter and the threat of running the ball was gone.  He was pretty dominant.  Then again, they were down guys from Covid so I'm not sure if any were the OTs.  I have no idea from an Xs and Os if this is true, but it gets repeated often.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

MGoStrength

August 10th, 2021 at 10:18 AM ^

In a 3-4 it will be completely different.  It will be Hinton & Jeter at DE in stead of guys like Hutch & Kwity.  Our old DEs will be rush OLBs.  Our DEs will be more Wormley types and less Hutch & McGregor types.  Our DTs will be more Mone types and less Hurst types.  Our rush OLBs will be more Uche/Winovich types.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

Golden section

August 10th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^

We're still going to need solid nose play because  if Smith or Whittley can't plug the center Hinton and Jeter will have to pinch and that will still open holes.

If the NT's do their job then you're correct MacDonald's  NFL 3-4 (5-2) line should help Hutch breakthrough  or  attract some double teams creating holes for other LB's. 

I wonder how much Nua has to play in the lack of development? Another knock on Paye was his hand work and part of the reason, with his freakish athleticism, he fell as low as he did.  If he's the sponge they say he is shouldn't he be technically better and if he isn't wouldn't that be on coaching? 

This will be a telling year for the Dline.

Joined: 10/19/2020

MGoPoints: 7031

Ezekiels Creatures

August 10th, 2021 at 8:54 PM ^

I saw Mike Macdonald talk about the 3-4. He said it will be a 3-4 only on some plays. It's going to be a 4-3, a 4-2 a 5-2, a 6-1, whatever, depending on the situation. So who knows what we will be seeing. I don't care myself. I just want effectiveness.

Joined: 03/14/2019

MGoPoints: 28664

MGoStrength

August 10th, 2021 at 10:20 PM ^

I saw Mike Macdonald talk about the 3-4. He said it will be a 3-4 only on some plays. It's going to be a 4-3, a 4-2 a 5-2, a 6-1, whatever, depending on the situation.

That's all talk.  Their primary structure will be 3-4.  He's completely changed the names of the positions and the way they line up from before.  Before Hutch was an SDE, now he's an Edge.  Before Hinton lined up in the middle, now he's lining up on the outside.  They may move stuff around, that's what they are primarily doing and being taught as.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

MFanWM

August 10th, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^

I think the development talk at times is also combinations of poor philosophical mixes between the offensive and defensive styles - my gut screams that Harbaugh is still very very old school focused and the messaging becomes "never ever make a mistake".  Control the ball at all costs, control the clock, etc and that limits opportunities and just seems to work like a giant wet blanket.

It always feels like the team comes out to start the game, start the 3rd quarter without any fire or drive - at least the majority of the games and the last several years.  Harbaugh seems to have lost his fastball and the team has followed suit, and the outcome is the above - almost playing on offense not to lose, vs loose and fast and understanding that today's game requires some tempo, some ingenuity and the idea that if you are focused on winning 17-14 - the game may have left you behind.

On the opposite side of the ball - Brown wanted to have the team play with their hair on fire and at times was too stubborn to change to account for personnel and when you combine both - mistakes on either side create very quick holes that the offense is simply not able to make up the difference for.

Joined: 09/19/2010

MGoPoints: 5223

darkstar

August 10th, 2021 at 1:39 PM ^

Late to the party so didn't read all the comments but I'm guessing the consensus to the question - Did Don Brown's defense limit (insert Player A name) - will be a yes.

Joined: 11/08/2016

MGoPoints: 11377