Those who stay...

Submitted by Michifornia on December 30th, 2018 at 6:34 PM

Will get a degree and a fantastic education at the BEST public university in the country.  Period.  Until Coach Harbaugh swallows his pride and makes some changes, there's no way a championship (B1G or otherwise) is likely.

Jim Harbaugh is a great recruiter.  Dude can talk a huge game.  When he came back to coach at Michigan, it was one of the greatest moments for me as a diehard fan for 40+ years.  But obviously, something needs to change.  I don't think it's a bad thing attracting kids to a stellar academic institution.  Even promising that you'll be joining an almost guaranteed top 20 program every year.

But I've been buying into the hype every week and every year.  There's so much freakin talk on social media about how great this team is.  How dedicated everyone is.  I am not one to bash any of these student athletes.  They are working hard and doing their best.  It's time to stop trying to convince everyone where this program is.  Enough with all the Twitter hype and all the rhetoric.  It's time to keep it real and shut up until this program can actually win something.  10 wins, nothing to sneeze at.  But 10 wins with all the talk and hype.  Not so great.  Maybe we need to take a more blue collar approach.

Michigan IS a great school.  Heck, we even have a pretty darn good basketball program (doing more with less).  I wear my maize and blue with great pride.  Proud to have earned a degree there.  But enough TALK about how great the football team is.  Harbaugh can bring in some pretty great talent.  But until it starts showing up on the national stage, let's not call it what it isn't.  

Those who stay won't be champions unless Harbaugh changes some things.

Happy New Year!  Be safe and GO BLUE!!


big john lives on 67

December 30th, 2018 at 6:58 PM ^

Sorry. No championships until year five. Which was accompanied by a first round loss in the tournament. 

Two sub-500 finishes in the first four years. In year four, went on a seven game losing streak in the Big Ten. EVERYBODY wanted him gone at that point. Thankfully, the administration at the time was not that stupid. And that’s saying something. 


December 30th, 2018 at 7:10 PM ^

I get giving people time to turn around a difficult situation.  The whole "Rome wasn't built in a day..." is true.  

But how much time does JH deserve?  Not being snarky.  Truly.  How much time should he get?  Also, based upon what we have seen after 4 years, getting pounded by a historic loss to OSU, and the last 2 Bowl games that our teams looked COMPLETELY unprepared, what makes you think that JH can turn it around.

Not being a prick.  I would love my mind changed.  I am in sales.  I am not a football coach.  I would love information to make me feel like next year isn't a complete and total loss already.  I so so so want to be wrong.  I would love your or anyone else thoughts.


December 30th, 2018 at 7:23 PM ^

So you're fine with a Coach who has shown that 50% of the time he doesn't have what it takes to prepare his team for a Bowl game?  I mean his last two performances against SC and FL were simply bad.  He failed his players this year and last year (referring to the Bowl game not the season).


December 30th, 2018 at 7:53 PM ^

Dude...we were playing South Carolina.  We aren't talking about Georgia, Washington, Stanford, or Florida State.  We are talking about a team that just got shut out by Virginia two days ago.  Michigan (by historical standards) should be able to beat a team like SC handily.  Period.


December 30th, 2018 at 7:38 PM ^

People just keep moving the timeline back and back and back as it fits their narrative. Last year it was "Well Dantonio didn't win the big ten until year four" and "Well Dabo Swinney didn't win the ACC until year four". Now it's "Well Beilein didn't win the big ten until year five". It'll just keep moving back. 


December 30th, 2018 at 9:45 PM ^

Lakeyale, OK I will give it a try. People cherry pick stats to fit their narrative. The fashionable point of view is that Harbaugh stinks against good teams and rivals. Let me take the second item for a moment; the cry is that he's 2-6 versus OSU and MSU. But I think any reasonable list of rivals would include PSU (since they are a credible division competitor), Wisconsin (the best of the West division who we use as a measuring stick), and ND (duh). Include those, and it's a 7-9 record. Still not great, but far from being one sided.

I don't have the patience to unpack how people are counting his alleged 1-9 record against "ranked" opponents. Let me just point out that some people aren't counting wins over Wisconsin and PSU from this season because they are unranked at the end of the season, while others don't count the depantsing of PSU in 2016, even though they ended the season as the B1G champion, because PSU wasn't ranked at the time we played them. I'm not saying Harbaugh had a winning record; duh, no one but Saban or Meyer does that to elite teams consistently. I'm just saying the counting has some really slippery assumptions.

But, you and others are not wrong to think Michigan has received way more than its fair share of dong punches the past few years. We come by our PTSD honestly. First, when do we lose? The last two games of the year, and the disappointment has months of the off season to fester. In the last 18 seasons, Michigan has lost to OSU and then lost a bowl game 15 times (or did not go to a bowl). That will get any fan base muttering to itself in a paranoid fashion.

Second, we have had the Ding-Dangest series of unlikely outcomes the last decade. We hired RichRod, the brilliant offensive innovator whose system was going drag the B1G into modern football by shredding all the other staid programs. And indeed his offense has shredded all the other staid programs; problem is that it's Meyer and OSU doing the shredding. Michigan on the other hand got the worst version of RichRod in his entire career. He was inexplicably awful at every facet of his job in a way he hasn't been either before or since.

So, Michigan bought the conventional thinking that RichRod was a cultural mismatch, and we needed a coach who's been here before and will get us back to what makes Michigan great. Enter Brady Hoke, who vowed to return to power football and "toughness." Yet his era was remarkable for fielding soft, disorganized teams, and after getting bullied by other teams, apologizing to them for perceived slights.

Finally, enter Jim Harbaugh, who is kinda the best of both kinds of hire. An alum who understands Michigan's brand of football, who is widely considered one of the most innovative offensive minds and will both beat you up and trick you with power football, and the QB whisperer. However, in his first four seasons, the QB whisperer has been unable to beg, borrow or steal a QB who is better than above average, or keep his starting QB healthy. Despite his track record at Stanford, he has put together serviceable offensive lines who sort of (but not completely) are able to run his power system only with great difficulty and inconsistently. Finally, this innovative mind in the last two seasons has fielded offenses remarkable only for their predictability and inability to adjust to opposing defense. Finally, the worst performances have tended to be after the team had extra time (bye week, season opener or bowl game) to prepare.

It's no wonder we fans think everything Michigan football touches turns to shit, because the last decade that has been our reality. But, that doesn't mean it will continue forever.

Let me cite three examples where I believe Harbaugh has shown his ability to adapt. First, he took the players Coach Hoke recruited but could only get to a 5-7 record, and put a monster on the field in 2016, with NFL players all over the field, and who got robbed in Columbus.

Second, let me observe that Harbaugh seems to admit a weakness is real only after two seasons. In the first season, he assumes it's a blip. For example, Michigan's O-line has been a sore spot for years. However, Harbaugh ignored issues that cropped up in the 2016 season, and stuck with a Rube Goldberg division of position coaching duties with two coaches running different systems. The predictable catastrophe then motivated him to hire an excellent O-line coach who largely addressed the long standing issues.

Third, we've now had two seasons of of predictable, uncreative offense that is too conservative and underuses passing. The fact that we are flashing back to the very things the Hoke offenses did poorly, and the one thing about Bo that caused us to regularly complain, adds ANOTHER level of PTSD to our freak-out. I think Harbaugh gets it. I think Pep will be gone, or he will have totally different marching orders for next season.  We all need to calm the hell down, spend time with our families, and invest a little less of our egos in games in which we have no ability whatsoever to influence.

There, does that help?


December 30th, 2018 at 8:35 PM ^

No, they weren't. But then again, it's human nature to revise history. Beilein didn't have a WINNING Big Ten record in his first four years, yet this comment you're responding to makes it sound like there was this clear cut future in the making. Harbaugh just finished 8-1 and tied for first in the division. Is that worse than going 9-9? All that proves is that 4 years isn't enough to make a full judgment on whether a coach can succeed.


December 30th, 2018 at 9:35 PM ^

The 08 team was worse than 07 of course because Dion Harris, Petway, Lester Abram and Courtney Sims were all gone and the only talent was a young DeShawn Sims/Manny Harris. The 09 team improved. There was a step back in year 3, similar to football in 2017. The 2010 team actually had a worse record than prior year but some of that was bad luck, they had a bad record of like 2-8 or something in games decided by 6 points or less. That team couldn't shoot 3s, get ORebs, or get to the line at all. And then 2011, 2012, and 2013 were all progressively better. The basketball program was a lot more of a mess than the football program and didn't have the resources that the football team gets. Also, Hoke left a lot of talent, especially on defense as the 2017 draft demonstrated. Whereas there were basically 2 serviceable players in Sims/Harris and we were playing guys like Ron Coleman, Jevohn Shepard, Ant Wright, Kelvin Grady, Zack Gibson. Good kids, but not guys who should've been playing meaningful B1G minutes. 


With the basketball program, the difference was back to back classes of Hardaway/Jordan Morgan/Burke and then the Albrecht/Stauskas/McGary/GR3/LeVert. That's an extraordinary injection of talent. I guess that's possible but to replicate that, the 2018 and 2019 classes would have to significantly exceed expectations.


It's the same argument as the Dabo Clemson argument. Yeah, it can happen. But for every time that's panned out as well as it did for Beilein or Swinney, there are 50 other examples of where it never blew up like that. So....appreciate the basketball program. 


December 30th, 2018 at 9:18 PM ^

Beilein brought us back from our basketball program almost getting the death penalty where the basketball team will always get 2nd pub. He has Michigan beating blue bloods and in the national title game and should've won in 2013 if not for a poorly officiated game,

Harbaugh walks into a top 10 job with all the resources any college could offer and has done nothing.


No comparison. And the criticisms of Beileins defense were valid and he went out and did something about it

big john lives on 67

December 30th, 2018 at 11:32 PM ^

This comparison is a joke. 

Everybody wanted Beilein gone in year four. If it was up to the jokers clamoring for Harbaugh’s job, we would be looking for our second post-Beilein head coach by now. 

It is way easier to build a basketball team than a football team. Especially, a football team that has been in transition for a decade. And also, given the way our division rivals run their programs. 

The man has done a great job and will continue to do so. It takes time to build a winner while following the rules in today’s college sports with the rampant cheating. 

Thankfully, those in charge have way more sense than the fools on this board who are willing to plunge into another round of transition. You can be proud of having less sense than Dave Brandon and the ND AD.  Congratulations!



December 30th, 2018 at 9:53 PM ^

Or a fact. The 2008 hoops team had 2 fringe NBA/DLeague guys in DeShawn Sims and Manny Harris (minus Udoh due to transfer) and we gave serious minutes to Ron Coleman, Kelvin Grady, Jevohn Shepard, Ant Wright, CJ Lee, etc. The cupboard was really bare. Whereas the 2015 football team had Jabrill Peppers, Dymonte Thomas, Jourdan Lewis, Taco Charlton, Chris Wormley, Delano Hill, Jake Butt, Amara Darboh, Jehu Chesson, Chase Winovich, DeVeon Simith, Ben Gedeon, Channing Stribling, Mike McCray, Zack Gentry, Karan Higdon, Tyree Kinnel, Graham Glasgow, Kyle Kalis, Willie Henry, Ben Braden, Maurice Hurst, Ty Isaac, Mason Cole, Mario Ojemudia, Jon Runyan, JBB, Grant Newsome, Erik Magnuson, Khalid Hill, Ian Bunting, Matt Godin, Ryan Glasgow, Jeremy Clark, Joe Bolden etc. Some of those guys are just guys and there were certainly some holes in talent by position or depth but overall that's a lot of talent to walk in to for a rebuild. Harbaugh inherited top 15 or so talent while Beilien was stuck with a roster that was mostly composed of MAC level players. 


December 30th, 2018 at 8:07 PM ^

The difference between the attitudes of OSU vs UM is striking. In the back of my mind, I had a real bad feeling that all of the talking we did would come back to bite us and it did. Why the "Revenge Tour" BS and Chase's "cracking bucknuts" video before the game. The guarantees...… ENOUGH ! It's embarrassing especially after the complete thumping OSU administered. Meanwhile OSU kept their mouths shut. Take a run through some of the other boards and our opponents are still laughing at us. ENOUGH ! 

We had several key players sit out yesterday.  Every player is playing for OSU citing that they don't want to let their teammates and coaches down. Again, notice the difference in attitudes ?

JH is a good football coach but I'm beginning to wonder if he has the ability to coach and develop young college kids. He didn't have to worry about this in the NFL. He's no Bo but I guess nobody is. I sure do miss him. He was in control and everybody knew it