Why as a program do we refuse to embrace the passing game?
We've had some pretty good QBs and wide receivers come through here have we not? How many all Americans did we have in the 90s and 2000s? We even had some pretty good ones in the bad years of the 2010s in Greg Mathews, Junior Hemmingway, Jeremy Gallon, Roy Roundtree, and Devin Funchess (what a waste between him and Devin Gardner). Darboh and Chesson we're probably the best. It seemed like the first two years under Harbaugh we embraced the pass more with those guys, we just didn't have a running game that was good enough to pick up a few yards when we needed it. Now we have one and we're bound and determined to run it up the middle no matter what, despite having Nico Collins, DPJ, and Tarik Black.
What is it where coaches are bound and determined to run the ball? Nostalgia? The only coach to really embrace the pass seemed to be Gary Moeller and that's just based on watching old games as he was fired when I was only 1.
Even Tressel who ran primarily MANBALL knew what he had in Troy Smith and Pryor and scored 42 on our vaunted defense in 2006. Urban has just taken that and made it even better. OSU fans don't have some nostalgia about running manball, they just want to win.
Like I said earlier, I think we embraced the pass more when we had Fisch, and the route combinations seemed to make more sense. I just hate to see the guys we have now be wasted by nostagia of a time where we were considered underachievers, the same thing we are now.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:48 PM ^
No other team is OSU. That's the bar.
November 25th, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^
Here we are again... People who should know more but for some reason don't.
1. You can't have a strong passing game if you have poor lineman play.
Coach brought in Warinner, Mclwein, and Shea. We have improved with the lineman play but yesterday didn't have JBB playing. A rushed QB can't pass how he would like to.
It's as simple as that.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:44 PM ^
Think you are wrong. Now, having a good O-line helps. But, getting the ball out quick is very limited in our playbook. You watch other teams? Happens frequently. Few Questions to consider about our passing game.
1. Why do we never use our RB’s in the pass game? They have caught like 5 passes all year, and never are targeted.
2. Why do we think we need do play action pass all the time? Especially when the run game isn’t working or down 17+.
3. Why do we not have a hurry up in the playbook? Down 17+ in Q4, we are huddling and hiking ball inside 10 on play clock.
4. With Black/Collins, 6-4 and taller, why don’t we attack down the field more with 1 on 1’s? Between a catch or PI, odds of something good over 50%. This can be done without a great line, with a simple 3-5 step drop.
All of the above show how clueless we are in the passing game. Yes, can’t draw up plays where Gentry catches ball or Shea doesn’t under throw, but attack teams weak links. Yesterday, more quick passes to WR’s were needed and possibly quicker tempo to slow them down. Unfortunately neither are in the plsybokk which is concerning.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^
#1 is because we leave them in to block a ton because our Tackles struggle to pass block.
#2 is because we're trying to hold DEs to their rush assignments because our Tackles struggle to pass block.
You're trying to refute a post that says our line is a problem, yet you give two examples of how we're limited because of our line. And then cap it off with raging about how clueless the coaching staff is.
I'm having fun. This is a fun place today.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:42 PM ^
1) Chris Evans had 3 receptions yesterday and 17 on the year.
2) I'd guess it buys us time, and lets our receivers run their routes.
3) Very very worrisome.
4) No one really knows.
I think it comes down to the 'body shot' philosophy of this offense. We want to pound the gut and wear them out in the second half, which will allow for a more successful run game. It's basically using the run to open up the run.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^
Reply to point 2:
Bo had no passing plays that were not play action. The Wangler to Carter "miracle" touchdown against Indiana was a play action. Wangler said all passes were play action. JH is Bo 2.0.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:48 PM ^
OSU has had bad line play all year and they still make it work with quick short passes
November 25th, 2018 at 2:47 PM ^
Lies!!!! If you get the ball out quickly you can stem the tide of the pass rush. Eventually that will give you time to hit some deep passes. It’s the exact way Purdue defeated OSU earlier in the year.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:05 PM ^
What about screens and RPO? Wasn't Harbaugh talking up RPO before the season?
When OSU was struggling earlier in the year, screen-passes were the go-to play.
November 25th, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^
We have 3, 4 star and above receivers. Yet we refused to attack the worst pass D in Ohio history, through the air until the game was a blowout.
When we do pass we run 20 yard seam routes to a former quarterback.
In the red zone we refused to call shots into the endzone for our first 2 field goal drives.
I dont know what's wrong with Harbaugh.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
He’s more concerned with trying to recreate 1985 and quintessential Bo then figuring out what offenses actually score points against elite teams in 2018.
November 25th, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^
Harbaugh is a Bo disciple and I have to believe that a power run game is the way things were done back in the day. It would seem like a relatively easy thing to complete short passes but with this team every pass seems like work in spite of a very good QB.
There is a reason why many college offenses have switched to a pass-heavy offense and why the NFL is going in the same direction.
November 25th, 2018 at 12:59 PM ^
Peters has a good arm & looked damn good on his single pass yesterday.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:04 PM ^
He will transfer and end up being a good college QB. They seem to have given up on him at Michigan.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^
god, the most michigan fan comment ever. “he looked good on that one throw.”
November 25th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^
Well... Peter's first pass was a good completion. Bring in Milton, he throws an INT. So they bring back Milton again on next series. Damn, I really can't figure it out.
November 25th, 2018 at 12:59 PM ^
I have been saying it for years, the best model for an offense is the NFL style Passing Spread which New England operates. They manage to get a run game out of it as well. Lots of crossing routes, TE and slot WR use, and they go deep shots as well.
Yesterday was very frustrating. Nearly all pass plays seemed to be 2 or 3 man routes...all verticals!
Watching OSU carve us up with crossing routes and then seeing Pep unable to have any in his game was indefensible.
Harbaugh had better WAKE THE FUCK UP. This is 2018.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^
Until people figured him out harbaugh did pretty well in San Francisco with a running qb. He shredded up Green Bay a few times including in the playoffs and almost won a super bowl.
Im saying he can adjust and play to the offenses strength to get in the end zone.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:00 PM ^
The more times I log back on, the more I wish HUEL would have picked today to shut the site down and do some more fixing of the bugs.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:04 PM ^
Dude, we did embrace it. Did you not see the McMurray package yesterday? No reason to target Black, DPJ and Collins when you have JM against OSU.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
Where's the guy who said we didn't save anything special for OSU?
November 25th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
That and the Uber effective swing passes and play actions on 3rd and long.
Ingenious!
November 25th, 2018 at 1:05 PM ^
We were quarterback U back in the 1990's and early 2000's. I remember it well. Grbac, Navarre, Henson, Brady. All those guys could sling it. We had 300+ yard passing games pretty much on the regular. We had 1000+ yard receivers. Moeller and Carr were not afraid to throw the ball but we've always been a team that preferred running the ball first, especially when it's working. And when it wasn't working those coaches would throw more. But the thing that we had were GREAT offensive lines, some of the best Michigan has ever had. JH seems more intent on running the ball with lesser OL's than Moeller and Carr had. It's a little stubborn and frustrating.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
Because Harbaugh needs three TEs and two FBs on the field
November 25th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
I’m a decent high school OC in the state, I’m only saying this because I don’t want to come off as a “know it all” “or a guy with all the answers” IMHO Michigan runs way too many basic “90s” football 9 route tree routes. Even man ball Bama has implemented new routes into their system which started with Kiffin. OSU blitzed Michigan leaving their DBs on an island, the difference is they knew every route that was coming. Harbaugh or Pep i don’t know who’s giving the okay but Michigan needs to add some more rub routes, 1 and ups, 3 and ups, whips, double moves, even some spread combo routes like cross, pivots, raider, smash like fuck use some damn imagination.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:10 PM ^
Thank you. I looked at the route trees during every wide camera shot yesterday. Same boring, non-innovative routes that fool no one.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^
It makes me wonder if the defense even prepared for these combo routes because they looked absolutely clueless when facing them, Even worse when OSU broke out the Whips and wheel routes. I think the offenses lack of innovation hurts the defense because you only know what you play against in practice everyday
November 25th, 2018 at 1:40 PM ^
Good point. The lack of zone coverage hurts the QB as well, we he has to read zones that he never sees implemented by the defensive first team.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:29 PM ^
Ohio State was sure fooled on those routes in '17 game, though, receivers open all day with no QB to get the receivers the ball.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
Maybe Schiano was last year but this year they changed their defensive game plan for Michigan.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^
Pretty obvious why: they had zero respect for O'Korn, so why waste practice time? With Patterson they had to respect that, so they made the effort. Too bad it was so easy for them.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
Hell call some jump balls if you aren't intelligent and OC to scheme all that.
In college jump balls are almost guaranteed yards either on a catch or PI
November 25th, 2018 at 1:14 PM ^
My Brother-In-Law was an OC/Co-HC for a Division 2 team and he’s said similar things in regards to Michigan’s route concepts.
I just nod and agree.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:35 PM ^
In other words...Jim need to go hire a real OC that knows a thing or two about CFB in 2018.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:08 PM ^
Lloyd Carr and DeBoard did the same thing back in 98-2000. They had Brady and then Henson for 9 games in the year that he started. The running game was crappy back then, even with A-Train and 5 OL who went to the NFL, one who will be a Hall of Famer. They did not get push and their run schemes on the 98-00 teams were garbage.
However Michigan had excellent WRs and TEs and they would get down in games, and then be forced to open it up and go 4Ws to pass the ball. Brady would inevitably march the team down the field.
We knew back then, 20 years ago almost...that you needed to open up the offense and pass it.
For some reason, the program and coaches are stuck in this Bo Mindset. Well that worked in 1973 because Michigan could overwhelm other B1G teams with strength and talent. Run, run run, etc. worked back then. It doesn't work today.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^
if only UM could have hired a spread coach. I am sure he would be embraced by the program alumni.
note: I do not want rich rod back but rather am pointing put that it will be nearly impossible to find a coach with both the right pedigree and philosophy. So disappointing and frustrating.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:58 PM ^
Stop getting hung up on a coach’s pedigree and just focus on philosophy.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
I think Harbaugh just wants to control the clock and shorten the games. Even though we have a strong D, he still wants to limit their snaps , give them less chances to blow an assignment and give up a long TD. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you can see yesterday, even our great D can get Fd up.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:56 PM ^
Getting 4 first downs on three passes per first down uses moer time thas running it twice, throwing an incomplete pass and punting.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:10 PM ^
My theory is that, when Harbaugh arrived, we passed (and did so creatively) out of necessity despite that not being the long term plan, and eventually the coaches picked to favor the long term plan.
Of course, we all prefer the old plan. Because it seemed more well suited to punching above one's weight class. And that (not in the Heavyweight class) is our program's current status.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
Cause Bo! Duh. It worked in the 70's with no scholarship limits against teams who would lose to mac schools in today's game, so why wouldn't it work now? We just need time! We're on the right path! Just a few 400 pound 6* lineman with 4.4 speed and a 260 pound RB with 4.0 speed and it'll work. Just be patient you entitled brats. In Harbaugh we trust.
November 25th, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^
Then we would look like Wisconsin. Wait, is Wisconsin our program ceiling?
November 25th, 2018 at 1:18 PM ^
I like to believe also that Harbaugh tries to adapt the O to the strengths of that years team. Going into the season he looks at at strengths and weaknesses.
This year we had a senior workhorse RB, we had a 5 guard OL who were much better at run blocking than pass pro. We had a new QB. Thatbnew QB is a pretty good runner too. We didn't have any proven WRs and not much WR depth after all the transfers.
So you look at all that and you think, ok we need to be a run first team this year.
Looking at next year and it should be the opposite. Lose the senior workhorse RB, have 3 established junior WRs, a better pass pro line, either a 2nd year Shea or 3rd year McCaffrey at QB. If Harbaugh doesn't become a pass first team with that? We are hopeless for any change or adaptation going forward .
November 25th, 2018 at 1:26 PM ^
What? WR is the most talented group on offense.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:44 PM ^
I said before the season, when Harbaugh is looking at what he has for the upcoming year. We did not have an established WR before this season. Luckily we have 3 going into next season.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
Wrong. DPJ was coming on in the latter half of the year. He was clearly a strength. Everyone knew Black would blow up this year too.
November 25th, 2018 at 1:57 PM ^
Are you serious? DPJ had 12 catches for 155 yards last year. Black had another broken foot. As I said no established WRs coming into this season.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^
Are you quoting DPJ's stats getting thrown to by O'Korn as being in any way meaningful? We both watched the games. DPJ struggled early in the season and was clearly the best player on the team by the end of the year.
If Harbaugh couldn't extrapolate out from there, he's a worse coach than even the Hawt Takes claim.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:35 PM ^
Do you understand what the word "established" means? We came into this year with our best WR having 12 catches for 155 yards, what part of that screams "oh we have to be a pass heavy team now!" to you?
Just saying if you looked at the returning pass game vs returning run game coming into this season, it's pretty easy to see why Harbaugh thought we needed to lean on the run this year. Not stating what I think is the best way to go, just saying what I think Harbaugh saw.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:56 PM ^
You don't go into a season with a gameplan based on how your players "established" themselves the previous year.