Hoke vs. RR recruiting (Rivals data only)
I saw this on the Rivals message board and thought it would piss some people off this morning. Debate away!
Hoke current 1st full class:
0 5-star recruits
10 4-star recruits
10 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.5
R-Rod's 1st full class:
1 5-star recruits
13 4-star recruits
8 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.68
Hoke 1st partial class:
0 5-star recruits
6 4-star recruits
13 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.2
R-Rod 1st Partial Class
0 5-star recruits
17 4-star recruits
6 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.66
I know people love to bash RR and rub a Hoke tummy, but the numbers seem to tell a different tale about the recruiting prowess of the loveable Hok-e bear.
Can we please quit the freaking Hoke/RR comparisons? I love Coach Rod and wish him all the best, but Brady Hoke is our coach.
Hoke is having this success after the worst three year strech in Michigan football history. RR came in after three straight years of finishing top 10 in the coach's poll. You can't even begin tp compare the two things.
surely you dont mean 2005, 2006, and 2007? unless you are not talking about michigan, which makes your comparison even worse.
major brainfart. I thought I read that somewhere else in this thread, but now I realize how ridiculous that sounds. My bad...
Richrod got his first victory over Ohio State last year. Everyone beat Ohio State. Remember?
Not true at all.
Vacated wins mean no one lost to OSU, but we didn't beat them (we don't get the win on our record, it is just tht they don't either).
Michigan still gets a loss against OSU on their record, while OSU gets nothing. That means Michigan is 57-44-6 against OSU, while OSU is 43-57-6 against Michigan. Woo most nonsensical punishment in the NCAA!
Honestly I think the only thing to take away from this is that a new coach is often successful with recruiting. RR went 3-9 his first year and still managed to pull a great recruiting class, Hoke is in his first year and is also pulling in a great recruiting class. I think what will be telling is if Hoke can maintain his high level of recruiting in years 2 and 3 which is something that RR could not do.
A better comparison would be RR's last full year to Hoke's first full (albeit not yet complete) first year. It gives a nice look at how far and how quickly the program had fallen under RR, and how Hoke has been amazingly successful in spite of that:
RR 2010:
4* = 6
3* = 20
2* = 1
Hoke 2012:
4* = 10
3* = 9
NR = 1
It's very convenient to use Rivals only considering that it's the service with no midewestern recruiting analyst. RR recruited heavily in Florida, which had plenty of attention. Also, using the first partial class is kind of a bunk exercise, since it was mostly recruited by the previous staff and reflects their recruiting more than your own.
Let's consider where we are: Rich had the job of taking a program that was consistently excellent, and making it better. Unfortunately, his approach (for whatever reasons) made it a lot worse over a three year period. It's a shame, but he will succeed elsewhere.
Hoke, on the other hand, inherits a program that hit several all-time bottoms, and while it has improved slightly each year against weaker teams, it has consistently tanked badly against the better teams in the conference.
I think Hoke has the more difficult job.
That Hoke can recruit good players is an excellent start. That Hoke attracted the quality of coaches he has should lead to big improvement. But Michigan hasn't played a single down under Hoke, so it's impossible to predict where we'll be over the next few years. The spring game gave me a sense that the kind of success we're after is going to take some time, maybe a season or two. I wouldn't call it a sense of doom, but it certainly didn't appear to be clicking.
I'll tell you what I like about Hoke: he's inspiring confidence. The recruits are fired up. From what I read, the team is enthusiastic. I'm not hearing excuses, I'm hearing positives from Hoke. I have yet to hear Hoke or any coach say, "Well, we don't have much to work with, all the guys are spread players," etc. What I've heard Hoke say is, more or less, "We plan to win the Big Ten, and if we don't, we've failed."
That's kind of gutsy. And that sounds like Michigan to me.
Go Blue!
Plus, uh, you know, RR had a string of 1 bizillion consecutive winning seasons and bowl appearances to sell. Whereas Hoke has to use the device from Men In Black to help recruits forget about the last three torturous seasons. Given the circumstances, Hoke is outperforming RR in every aspect that we can compare thus far.
Isn't this thread an example of trolling?
No. It's an example of a contrary viewpoint.
What's your story, man? Were you a Michigan fan pre-RR or did you just decide to support Michigan because of RR's hire? Your Chuck Woodson avatar suggests the former, your behavior suggests the latter.
Sorry if most mgobloggers already know this guy's story, but I need to know so I can take preventative measures should a similar sickness ever threaten my sanity.
Long time fan. My dad took me to games when I was a little kid.
My dad always wanted me to go to Michigan.
I didn't have the grades to get in out of high school, but I worked hard and got in to grad school.
I was a student from 2008 to 2011 and I loved the RR hire (still do). I think he was treated poorly by our fans and athletic department and I think he was on the verge of breaking through to what he foresaw Michigan being.
My only real fandom was the RR era in it's entirety. I think the man deserved more than 3 years to re-build a program that was stuck in a rut. It may not have needed re-building, but it certainly did once an offensive change of that magnitude was ushered in.
I feel the RR disrespect and mistreatment is sad coming from fans of this great university. We are better than that.
You realize that by creating this thread, you opened a venue for people to complain about Rodriguez, right?
Actually, looking at the facts I was hoping for the exact opposite of that.
Rich Rodriguez's first 1.5 classes were, indeed, highly ranked. At the same precise point in their tenures, Rodriguez seemed to have done better than Hoke has now. I will give you that.
Obviously, it's nearly impossible for most people to look at that without seeing what we can in hindsight - a distressingly large number of those guys left early for various reasons, and a good many others never panned out. The hope, obviously, is that Hoke's class doesn't suffer that fate.
Whether Rodriguez actually recruited better or not is something we won't be able to answer for years.
Your first paragraph is saying that you will giveme the basis of my entire post.
Thanks. I am glad you agree with me.
I'm saying your post is factually correct, yes.
What I quibble with is it's purpose, which you surely won't admit to: to stir shit. If not, the final sentence makes no sense.
Well, congratulations: shit-stirred. You've successfully created a honeypot for people to do precisely what you purport to dislike.
Thank you for agreeing with me.
I am glad you too are a troll and a hater of all things Michigan like I seem to be cast.
You make no sense.
Last word?
Butts
Last word.
You are a child.
Just root for Michigan, I wasn't a spread fan but what was I going to do switch teams? Did RR get shafted, maybe but he's also been at the helm for the worst three years in UM history. What are you gonna do if UM is successful this year, beat your chest and say "BUT BUT it's with RR guys". Just enjoy the fucking ride or start a Clemson Blog when RR gets hired there.
That's a nugget of wisdom if I've ever heard one, but I am just going to continue doing whatever the fuck I feel like doing. Thanks.
I defended RR to coworkers/friends (bare cupboard, on the verge, etc...) all the time until about the Wisky/OSU game when i began wavering...
It's now time to let it go brother...he's not coming back and we are moving forward with a new sherrif for better or worse.
Get on board and Go Blue!
So RR was your first girlfriend and she left you when she was forced to move away. Got it. I know you can't see it, but she wasn't right for you - she was making you change things about your personality that were inherent to who you are/were, she was making your old friends angry and they weren't coming around as much anymore, and she was kind of giving you the reputation of a loser, making it harder for you to meet new friends.
So you lied about hanging out in Detroit back in 1984 during the Tigers "epic championship parties," right?
Can we just clear it up now that one of those two stories you are lying about?
I was in Detroit in 2006. Thanks. And go fuck yourself.
You clearly insinuated '84 last week with a "you might not understand this, young man" tone and saying when the Tigers WON the World Series.
your brain is small. Go back and read what I wrote.
I believe a lot if the success Hoke has had is due to the trouble at OSU. Don't get me wrong he has done a great job and taken advantage of a huge opportunity.
Dudeness, let it go. Move on already...
Dear HisDudeness-
You look as ridiculous as this guy:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4585287.stm
The war is over. You can come out of your cave.
This thread was basically to point out that RR did a lot of good for this university. Nearly all of the guys currently on the team (and I would say 99% of those you will see on the field this season) are those who pledged to play for RR. So when you are watching and cheering the team this year just remember that any coach or kid who signed on at this university should be respected.
No, it will be nowhere near 99% for the starters (those recruited and "pledged" to RR vs. those recruited and "pledged" to Carr).
If you take out Stonum, 7 of the 11 projected starters on offense originally committed to RR. On defense, 5 of the 11 committed to RR (not sure what to do with Kovacs since no one recruited him).
Taking out Kovacs, 12 of 21 recruited (projected) starters pledged to RR and 9 pledged to Carr.
If stonum starts, make it 11 to 10 (with Kovacs as the 22nd starter).
If you take it into the two deep it slants a little more to RR, but players like Mealer, Khoury, Cox, Moore, Herron, Fitzgerald were all Carr guys.
That coach came before or after Rich Rod.
No it wasn't.
It was to piss people off. Your words, not mine.
Well, that too.
Right. You were trolling.
From Urban DIctionary:
Trolling:
1. Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.
2. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet, generally on message boards. When done in a moderated internet community, this can result in banning.
Basically you have already admitted to both definitions. Someone who bitches a lot will soon be labeled, due to the need for simplification, a bitch. Shall we heretofore label you a troll?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
Irony. Look that up while you are at it.
Oh I definitely make some comments here and there simply to antagonize. Many posters here do that now and then. But that is not my schtick, nor is it theirs. That is not all I do. But its all you do. Its your schtick. And I would never create a thread just for that purpose. My approach and yours are worlds apart.