Hoke vs. RR recruiting (Rivals data only)
I saw this on the Rivals message board and thought it would piss some people off this morning. Debate away!
Hoke current 1st full class:
0 5-star recruits
10 4-star recruits
10 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.5
R-Rod's 1st full class:
1 5-star recruits
13 4-star recruits
8 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.68
Hoke 1st partial class:
0 5-star recruits
6 4-star recruits
13 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.2
R-Rod 1st Partial Class
0 5-star recruits
17 4-star recruits
6 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.66
I know people love to bash RR and rub a Hoke tummy, but the numbers seem to tell a different tale about the recruiting prowess of the loveable Hok-e bear.
Gallon is a WR. Sort of.
A better criticism would have been to say he is taking too small of a sample by just comparing one Hoke recruit to a RR recruit and concluding something based off that.
are you? I said that Magnuson has prototypical size for a LT and Gallon doesn't have prototypical size for a RB/WR.
Picking up some fucking reading comprehension? BRILLIANT!
That Gallon kid that you are making disparaging remarks about is actually a member of the Michigan Football Team. Eric Magnuson has yet to play a down for his high school senior season. You could possibly show a little more respect for the members of the team you say you cheer for.
How on earth is he making disparaging remarks? He said Gallon lacks prototypical size for a RB or WR. He's not saying anything about his skill level or his intelligence. He's saying the dude is 5'8''.
If you can't read into the comment and figure out it is negative towards Gallon then you have blinders on. I just believe the kids on the team should have a little more respect earned then a junior in high school.
Respect? Do you mean like the respect you should show for the current coach of the program who is doing extremely well in spite of the train wreck left by his fired predecessor?
If you can't read into the comment and figure out it is negative towards Gallon then you have blinders on
The comment was negative towards Gallon's size not Gallon himself
I just believe the kids on the team should have a little more respect earned then a junior in high school.
First, it's "than" not "then," and second, the comment didn't disrespect Gallon at all, it just said he was small for a WR. He is small, everyone knows he's small, he'd probably tell you he's small, so let's not get all defensive when someone points out the obvious.
I am truly amazed that after 8 months you still confuse excitement about Hoke and his recruits for disrespect towards Rodriguez and his recruits, still constantly bring up the past when everyone just wants to move forward and be excited about the future.
Would you like to tell Gallon that you think he is too small for the NFL and see what he has to say to you?
Because if it isn't a negative comment towards him i am sure you would have no problem telling him that to his face, right?
I am not confused.
"Jeremy Gallon is small" doesn't seem, to me, to be an insult. It is fact - for a football player, Jeremy Gallon is small.
Like I commented earlier; you can be the first in line to tell Jeremy Gallon that he is small to his face. Since it is not insulting in the least and all...
You seem to think that someone who is 5'8" will fly into a violent rage about being called small. I just scanned the comments of Brian's commitment post to him, approximately half of which is devoted to his height, and see no complaint from you. There are countless references throughout this blog of him being "an electron", which, again, you didn't seem to deign to comment on.
The guy is small. That's not saying he's bad, mean, or anything else. There is less of him that there are of most adult males. It's a fact.
The guy seemingly has a dream to become an NFL player yet you don't see it as an insult to say "Hey man you're too small to be in the NFL."
If you were going to school with the hopes of becoming a CEO some day and someone said "Hey man you're too stupid to become a CEO." I am thinking it would be insulting.
I'm sure that you get similarly offended at the literally hundreds of NFL scouting reports that mention size.
Look, how many times did Michigan fans adoringly mention Hart's size?
Hart made it to the NFL, correct?
Thanks again for agreeing with me.
He hadn't in 2004-2007, when RBUAS earned a slavish following writing paeans to his midgetude, and the rest of the fanbase loved the scrappy lil' guy. And, by the way, virtually EVERYONE said Hart was too small to be a featured back.
Excellent timing, BTW:
Mike Hart released.
This is probably pointless to debate further because you always seem to intentionally miss the point, but I said he was small for a wide receiver (I.E. shorter than most other wide receivers at this level). I quite clearly never said anything about his hopes and dreams to become an NFL player.
Brady would tell you that the players deserve far more respect than the coaching staff due to the work they have put in and definitely deserve more of your respect than a junior in high school.
to jump through RR haters. Eventually you'll skew the data enough to fit your narrative.
Agreed. Anything that makes Hoke look good is solid data. Anything that make RR look good is obviously garbage.
These are just facts. You have the right to your own opinion, but not the right to your own facts.
15-22
0-3 and never competitive against Ohio State.
0-3 against Michigan State.
0-3 against Penn State.
1-2 against Illinois.
1-2 against Wisconsin.
0-1 in bowl games.
When is this shit going to stop? He is gone.
It will stop when the His Dudenesses of the interwebs stop trying to convince us he was awesome.
It's July. How about you wait until the class is finished before you start whining?
These are extremely misleading facts, though. You're manipulaitng the facts to serve your purpose. The kids in Hoke's class haven't played their senior season, so they can improve or hurt their ranking. This is only a fair comparison after NSD, and even then it isn't that fair. Hoke has to rebuild Michigan's image, while RR inherited a great program and was a much bigger name hire
These are facts, but facts are (kind of) meaningless in a context. In law when analyzing precedent and how you apply it to a certain case you are working on one must determine if the factual situation is similar to the previous one. If one deems the context (factual situation) is different, then one can depart from previous court rulings. Just to highlight the importance of context.
The above info is telling, but does no really tell the whole story. I can understand your frustration with the blind rhetorical faith in certain traditional Michigan themes, such as Manball, and how people bring these themes up frequently. That being said, there was plenty of blind faith in RR. We cannot really compare RR to Hoke, since Hoke has not coached a game, and even when that happens, the entire situation with Hoke and RR will be different, since they both bring two different reactions and coaching philosophies to the field. Yes, it sucked RR didn't do better and that there was so much internal strife here, but he did go 15-22 and he did hire Greg Robinson...huh. You cannot take your frustration with how the RR situation worked out and let it impact you analysis of the Hoke era so far. Hoke has done a great job recruiting, and when all is said and done his first class will rival RR's if not be better (assuming everything doesn't fall apart). Yes, people forget RR could recruit quite well when he wasn't under the constant threat of being fired, and yes, people will make comparisons to Pro-offense and spread-offense by comparing a left tackle to a slot receiver. Yes, people forget several of the national champs in the recent years run a spread offense, but the Michigan is moving on and we need to stick with Michigan. You cannot criticize someone for wearing Hoke/Manball colored glasses and then wear RR/spread/disdain for conservatism glasses yourself. It is a spade calling a spade.
The only thing I'd add is that the term "Manball" should be retired, especially if it's in reference to offenses that operate exclusively out of the I formation, because that's not even what we're going to do.
•Rich Rodriguez was hired on December 17.
•Brady Hoke was hired on January 11.
•Rich Rodriguez took over a team that went to 33 straight bowl games.
•Brady Hoke is taking over a team that won six Big Ten games in three years.
•Rich Rodriguez was coming off of three straight top ten finishes in the Coaches Poll.
•Brady Hoke is coming off of a third place finish in the Mountain West Conference.
Which situation sounds more conducive to recruiting to you?
The fact that the numbers you've presented are as close as they are given the circumstances just speaks to how impressive Hoke's accomplishment have been thus far. Thank you for taking the time to help highlight this for us!
Unfortunately his dudeness ignores these facts.
really aren't any hoops needed. Hoke is landing better players with better offers. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer a recruit from the big-time programs over beating programs like WVU, UCF and Indiana for recruits. Just me, though.
I'll try fruitlessly to try and reach a few people on everyone of these type threads. The comparisons are not fair so let's just forget about it. RR was trying to recruit under a cloud of uncertainty about his job and the NCAA. He did pretty good his 1st year and he was doing great last year when his job security was on a little firmer ground.
Hoke's doing a great job and better than RR, but I still wanted to see what kind of guys RR was going to pull with DR at QB, no NCAA cloud and vote of confidence from Brandon. I think 2011 and 2012 would have been a monster classes for RR.
Anyway this is like trying to compare L. Fickel's recruiting vs Tressel.
I've got news for ya, RR brought that NCAA cloud on himself.
I don't think the star ratings tell the whole story on why the fan base is so excited about Hoke's recruiting. It has more to do with the type of players that Hoke is recruiting rather than strictly star ratings that are exciting the fan base.
The last 3 seasons were terrible for michigan fans and I believe the fan base is excited about the change back to old school "Michigan Football" recruiting. Whether or not that belief is accurate, I believe this is what is exciting the fan base.
I guess that's like, your opinion, man.
Also have to take into context who we are recruiting. I know The data doesn't really back it up, but this class is also breaking the perception that RR didn't care about MI nor the Midwest. Also, I don't have the data, but in this class, don't we only have like 5 recruits in this whole class who don't have a 4th star on at least one of the sites?
by the Sparty mods in an effort to put down UM fans lauding Hoke's recruiting. Congrats Dudeness, this must be a great day for you alligning yourself with Sparty
Hoke has put together a great class while suffocating the abilities of two of our main competitors for recruits. RR was an excellent recruiter, but he continued to focus nationally and that left the door open for MSU especially to pluck some solid local recruits. That will not be the case anymore and that is a great thing for our program.
I knew it all along! Hoke WAS responsible for the Tatgate investigation.
This is exactly what I was about to post....it's a fair enough point that the average Rivals rating is quite comparable between RR/Hoke, but Hoke (other than Magnuson/Houma and maybe Bars) is taking kids from schools within the Big Ten footprint and thus simultaneously taking away from our prime competitors. This is a HUGE deal IMO....especially in regards to MSU/OSU. Hoke has 8 4-stars (or better) from MI/OH in this, his first full, class, with the potential of adding a few more to it. RR had 4 4-stars (or better) from MI/OH in his first full class.
These numbers are really telling. I'll take it a step further. RichRod won three games his first year and Brady Hoke hasn't won a game yet! Clearly RR is the superior coach.
only you could field a full team of 6'1, 168 pound slot receivers. Rich recruited offense based on the "awesomeness" scale and recruited defensed based on the most for value for the least effort.
Hoke is 14-1 in head to head recruiting battles with Dantonio. Total domination!
Who's the one for MSU?
Pittman, but there is speculation he tried to commit to UM and they told him he needed to get his academics in order first.
Thanks. Forgot about him.
Sevon Pittman is the one I believe
I think the number for the RR zombies to consider is 20. Yes, 20. That's the number of players in Hoke's first "partial" class that he assembled in roughly three weeks. Let's compare that to the number of players that the haters said he would be lucky to assemble - 10.
The Hoke haters said that the new coach would fail entirely at recruiting, lose Denard, etc. They were wrong about everything. Everything. So now, one of the haters compares Hoke's miraculous (according to the haters) partial year 1 recovery to say what...that RR did better? RR had more time. RR wasn't following the worst three-year stretch in anyone's memory. RR wasn't taking over a team recently hit with NCAA violations. RR didn't have to overcome...RR.
Bottom line for the Hoke haters is that they're intellectually inconsistent. Look, if you felt the guy wouldn't get 10 commits, don't criticize his landing of 20. Further, you can't compare a final class of one coach with the unfinished class of another.