February 8th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
I don't see how his Mom saying "UM fans are hypocrites who insulted my son when they thought he was going to OSU, then praised him when he thought of coming back to UM, then attacked him again when he stuck with OSU" is "slamming" anyone. There is a vocal minority of UM fans who are just as insufferable and myopic as any fanbase, and they are not above talking shit to a 17-year-old because he didn't stay committed to a school that fired most of the coaches that recruited him, then tried to snag him in under a month.
And as for Weber being afraid of "competition", people who honestly believe this need to grow up. This kid wants to play early and often, and as he noted there is no promise that UM is going to be back to being "Michigan" any time soon. He looked at the depth chart at OSU and sees an opportunity to play early despite Elliott being back. At Michigan, it's a jumble and who knows how Weber would fit in. Meyer, for all his personal warts, is a great coach he consistently produces great RBs. I hate him with the heat of a million suns, but a HS kid who gets an opportunity to play for the reigning national champion in an offense that will undobutedly maximize his abilities isn't being a coward. And there is absolutely a chance that Weber washes at OSU if he stays, but that isn't because a bunch of internet posters believe he failed to meet their definition of "toughness" because he went to a rival.
February 8th, 2015 at 2:04 PM ^
He looked at the depth chart at OSU and sees an opportunity to play early despite Elliott being back. At Michigan, it's a jumble and who knows how Weber would fit in.
In other words Weber liked the idea of only having to compete against Elliot instead of Green, Smith, Isaac, and possibly Johnson. Sounds like he prefers less competition rather than more. He might not be afraid of competition, but as you pointed out, he'd rather not deal with it.
February 8th, 2015 at 2:38 PM ^
"What made u guys think he would ever think to recommit to a university that knows he's a child and calls him such disgusting names?"
How is that not slamming the university? She wasn't talking about the fans, she said "university" as if Harbaugh and staff was responsible.
Yet OSU fans were calling her son a crybaby and telling him to go home and suckle all over the internet the last few days because he was upset , but that's not addressed.
Those who point fingers at others calling them to grow up need to do the same. Quite frankly this holier-than-thou attitude is a bit nauseating.... there is nothing wrong pointing something out for what it is. There is no other logical reason why else he has acted the way he has when he 1). Cooled on MSU as soon as he found out there was no longer a possibility of being the lone RB taking for that class, 2.) Cooled on Michigan a 2nd time for the same reason and 3). Stuck with OSU because he was the only RB in his position and would have had more development and less competition overall if he did go to a different program, even with additional RBs.
It's not about growing up...it's about listening to what is said, watching what is done, and connecting the dots.
In the end, I really could care less and Michigan shouldn't either. Pretty much done talking about. What he said during NSD stands as it does....there's nothing to defend nor deny so not sure why people are playing that game. He's demonstrated he's a buckeye through and through because it's pretty obvious there's a deep level of mistrust, disrespect, and dislike toward Michigan. As I said...we got the better RB IMO.
February 8th, 2015 at 3:36 PM ^
Because fans represent the university? Because those people who follow Michigan, who kept wanting him to rejoin UM late in the process, then disparaged him all along when he was committed to OSU? She isn't "knocking" the university, but the student body and fans who can be just as terrible as anyone else. I highly doubt chemistry department talks much crap toward Weber, and I'd like to see evidence of Harbaugh saying anything negative about him. He did take a shot at OSU, which is totally fine by me.
She was addressing insults directed at her son by UM fans. I'm sure if/when Weber leaves OSU he'll get called a million names by OSU people and she'll have something to say then as well. Parents defend their kids, in particular when assholes on the internet question their manhood because they are playing football at a school they don't root for.
I'm not being holier-than-thou; I'm saying don't insult HS kids because they don't come to your school. And then don't act hurt when people attached to that family defend said kid from attacks by these mostly-anonymous individuals. I don't know if you have ever done so and I'm not accusing you of it, but there are LOTS of people who do, even around here, and it is annoying. We have no idea why Weber cooled on MSU; I was always under the impression that it was UM or OSU for him. He "cooled" on Michigan because the guys who recruited him were being fired. I mean, he decommitted on November 22, way before even the idea of Harbaugh coming to Michigan was in play for most people. And Hoke had other RB offers at that time, and I can't imagine that he didn't know other kids were looking to commit.
My issue is that people are writing as if they know how this whole Weber situation played out, casting people as heroes and villains when I seriously doubt they have any more information than the casual fan. You talk about connecting dots and seeing what is said, but those dots are absolutely subjective in many contexts, including here. I personally never expected Weber to commit back to UM; I think he even considered it because of local pressures. OSU is a better situation for him right now, and while I think Michigan is going to return to prominence I would absolutely have jumped at an opportunity to play on a defending national title holder with a line toward meaningful carries instead of dealing with a crowded backfield of older players and a team in flux. But I guess that doesn't make me a true Michigan fan to a subset of people around here.
February 8th, 2015 at 5:38 PM ^
Wow? Really? I don't think you read a single thing I wrote or at least gave it any thought. Please enlighten me.....when does discussing what happened/what was said= disrespecting a kid and not talking about it means respectful?
I never once attacked this kid. I never called him any names or said anything nasty about him or his family---but if discussing what is the most likely reasons things happened the way they did means to "attack" someone then you have some pretty thin skin and lack understanding of what it means to be attacked. I suggest you go look at what people say on twitter to some of these recruits if you think what I said was attacking him.
You talk about making assumptions but you are making some pretty far reaching ones yourself in regards to how his mom would respond if OSU fans were acting the same way. Hey guess what? They were.....and she hasn't publically defended her son from them. See how your assumptions aren't right either? Smh.
What the kid said during NSD is fact---how you want to take it is your prerogative. How I want to take it is mine---discussing it is NOT being disrespectful or attacking a kid.
Your reading comprehension is also a bit lacking because I did not say he decommited to Michigan because of another RB. I know good and well WHY he did. If you re-read what I wrote, I said he "cooled on Michigan the 2nd time" (that means when Harbaugh was recruiting him in case you're confused) because of the RB issue. He even SAID it. So what is being disputed here? You don't believe him? Fine--then don't but don't take it out on people on the board for discussing it and call it attacking.
We're not going to agree and I could care less, but let's just get something straight.....I know I never attacked that kid nor would I ever attack that recruit. I never once believed for a minute Weber was ever going to come here after decommiting so there was no hurt feelings like you talked about in your post.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. When you add 2 +2, you get 4. If it walks like a duck, quack like a duck, then it's probably a duck. Connect the dots and see the picture. That's just common sense. You make observations and you infer based on information obtained. Did I say I knew 100% what was going on? No... but I'll say this again, you do have a holier-than-thou attitude because apparently discussing what the kid said or did means and if we agree/disagree with it that he's being attacked and doing so is just beneath your standards.
February 8th, 2015 at 9:18 PM ^
You know, I was going to post another detailed response, but honestly you don't seem willing to read it. I actually said I don't know if you are one who has attacked her son on social media, only that there are people who have done so and that was what she responded to. And that your "connecting the dots" argument is purely subjective, that all of your "smoke + fire" arguments are just another way of saying you think incident A + B equals C while my counter that A + B equals D, E, F, 7, whatever are invalid, and...
Nevermind, there I go again. Trying to argue a point with someone who isn't listening.
Okay, one final point b/c I can't leave it alone. You said
1). Cooled on MSU as soon as he found out there was no longer a possibility of being the lone RB taking for that class, 2.) Cooled on Michigan a 2nd time for the same reason and 3). Stuck with OSU because he was the only RB in his position and would have had more development and less competition overall if he did go to a different program, even with additional RBs.
I then responded with:
We have no idea why Weber cooled on MSU; I was always under the impression that it was UM or OSU for him. He "cooled" on Michigan because the guys who recruited him were being fired. I mean, he decommitted on November 22, way before even the idea of Harbaugh coming to Michigan was in play for most people. And Hoke had other RB offers at that time, and I can't imagine that he didn't know other kids were looking to commit.
You then said, about my reading comprehension:
Your reading comprehension is also a bit lacking because I did not say he decommited to Michigan because of another RB.
So, yeah, you can argue semantics if you want but I'm not buying this massive distinction I apparently missed.
Here's the thing - us arguing doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm not going to change your opinion and your damn sure aren't going to change mine. So keep believing what you want about Weber and I'll keep holding on to my own. Since it seems highly unlikely he'll ever affect either of our lives, we can call it a draw and move on.
February 8th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 12:48 PM ^
It could be if he were a transfer, but he would not be transferring. The rules are different for players that never attended the school. It's possible that OSU would work harder to hold onto him if they thought he was going to come here, but a release couldn't have any strings attached.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
point of Jim Harbaugh's tweet. It was about Ohio and UCLA in their recruitment of Weber and Smith, but it's about the nature of using deception to legally bind a student athlete to attend your school by failing to disclose pertinent information that would have altered their recruitment.
Schools are hiding behind the letter of the law to compell enforcement of contracts that were written to benefit their legal interests and restrict student-athletes rights, in some cases without their full knowledge.
The worst part about the Weber case, was that it was an effort by Ohio to prevent Michigan from getting the same athlete regardless of that player's emotional well-being. We know this because of the effort both schools applied in recruiting him and the failure of Ohio's recruiters to acknowlege that RB Coach Stan Drayton was considering leaving the program for a job with the Chicago Bears.
This is about disclsoure and how that impacts the signing of any agreement as a minor, regarless of its other ramifications. It just so happens that Michigan was involved in the recruitement of two kids who were impacted in the same way, with one now free to sign anywhere and the other legally bound to Ohio.
To me, this incident just represents bad PR for our rival and forces them to defend their actions at their own peril in the court of public opinion. It's the larger question that's at issue, and from that standpoint Weber is unfortunately a potential test case for change.
February 8th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:54 AM ^
Hmm...hundreds of post on this since Wednesday, right here on this very board? It sounds like a lot of people here are interested in discussing this topic. Good luck on your mission to stop them, officer.
February 8th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^
The real issue is how Cass Tech and the rest of Detroit High schools view Ohio State and Urban Meyer moving forward. Have you heard of the term "Win the battle, Lose the war"? What cost is one recruit worth? Your integrity?
The most play this gets in the media, the more high school coaches will hear about it and tell their kids--"Be wary of Ohio State--they are shady and will lie to you". That kind of stink is hard to wash off. Maybe it will be limited to Cass Tech. Maybe it will be limited to Detroit area schools. Maybe it will be wider. Who knows? All I know is, the wider that sentiment reaches, the better it is for us.
February 8th, 2015 at 2:11 PM ^
No, the "real issue" is not how this controversy can benefit Michigan's future recruiting, but how every school, including Michigan, should fully disclose all factors important to a recruit so that the kid can make an informed decision that best meets his needs and interests.
February 9th, 2015 at 8:32 AM ^
You don't like this thread and yet you still had to respond multiple times? Gotcha.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^
now, this made my day. . .
February 8th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:10 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 12:43 PM ^
Great...that must mean we have been winning more than OSU....wait, no?...then what is the f-ing point to the above post?
February 8th, 2015 at 1:31 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:07 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:27 AM ^
Even if the coach is recruiting right up until signing day, as long as he doesn't give the impression to the recruit that he's "not going anywhere" (and that includes by omitting to state that you have a job offer in hand), then i don't really have an issue as long as they leave before the LOIs are sent in. Heck, if i actually believed that Drayton's first whiff of the job offer was the day after NSD, I wouldn't begrudge him that. But we all know that's not the case.
MICH better be careful though, because if the program is successful, there are a lot of guys on staff who will be looking around each year given the seemingly upwardly mobile nature of the bulk of our coaches. I just hope we do things correctly if/when the NFL or other schools come calling for position coaches in the coming years.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
Again, it is not that people come and go, it is about what a recruit was being told and the timing of the coach's departure. With Weber, it seems abundantly clear that one position coach was on his way out while another was on his way in.
Surprise....someone managed to forget to tell the recruit.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
You don't think that simply recruiting for the school right up until signing day gives recruits the impression that you aren't going anywhere? How in the hell could that not be the case?
February 8th, 2015 at 1:46 PM ^
Drayton lied about the Chicago job coming up after NSD - when you are going to hire a guy for hundreds of thousands of dollars to help coach millionaires, you don't start and finish that process in less time than a Rocky marathon. That was the issue people had with what happened at OSU and UCLA - coaches lied to kids, local media basically agreed to keep it quiet, and yet the only people adversely affected are a bunch of 17-year-olds who should "know better".
February 8th, 2015 at 12:11 PM ^
was the tipping factor in favor of Ohio State.
Weber thought that Harbaugh should have stuck to their alleged understanding--that Harbaugh wouldn't take another RB--even though Weber hadn't committed/performed his side of the alleged bargain. (There's nothing deceitful--on either side--in walking away from a proposed, yet-to-be-executed contract.)
And then a day later it becomes glaringly apparent that Ohio State's main recruiter was withholding key information and blantantly lying to Weber in some of his personal promises.
IMO, it's the irony that makes this story larger than the usual meat-market happenings in football factories like OSU.
T.R.U.S.T.
(The Realization Understood by Sophomore Transfers)
February 8th, 2015 at 12:14 PM ^
Harbaugh was openly recruiting Higdon. He took a visit to A2. This was no secret.
If Weber thought there was some understanding that Harbaugh would only take him, then he had to realize that once it was the day before NSD and he was still leaning to staying with OSU, Harbaugh was going to have to act. He could not wait until NSD was over and be stuck with nothing.
We can't know for sure, but I suspect that if Weber committed to Michigan a couple of days earlier and not strung Harbaugh out past the point of no return, he would have been the only RB taken.
February 9th, 2015 at 8:01 AM ^
I'll add that IF Weber expected Harbaugh to sit there holding his dick and not recruit anyone else on the CHANCE that Weber would commit, that would be selfish and unreasonable. I would not want a kid like that. I'm not saying that's what happened, and yes I feel Weber got OSScrewed.
February 8th, 2015 at 1:56 PM ^
Was there any evidence that Weber thought Harbaugh was only recruiting him? I honestly want to know - I won't pay for access to some of the premium boards, but all I've heard in regards to stuff like this is 3rd-party accounts that seem dubious.
Sure, Weber maybe figured Harbaugh wanted him above all others. If so, he's a bit naive. But I doubt Harbaugh would ever say that, and it always read to me like Michigan fans making up justifications after the fact for why he chose OSU.
February 8th, 2015 at 2:23 PM ^
There was no verbal agreement to only take one RB. If the kid would've read this site on Tuesday, he would have known that already. But he did sound surprised the morning of NSD.
February 8th, 2015 at 3:21 PM ^
I guess. He seems a bit naive in general about the recruiting process, but I also think most kids would be surprised when a guy with no offer from Michigan until NSD signs. I get a sense that recruits tend to talk a great deal during the recruiting process, and so a last-minute switch might be a shock to a number of people.
February 8th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ^
Man...Hokes evaluation style seems to get thrown under the bus. Sounds like Hoke took the Randy Shannon approach in terms of going by what guys like Farrell and those guys say who are good.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:09 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:14 AM ^
You still have to coach them up..which obviously Hoke couldn't do at all. Despite offer sheets those kids can always get better with solid coaching and it seems Hoke and his staff couldn't do these things remotely well.
February 8th, 2015 at 1:59 PM ^
That Hoke struggled developing kids is an argument worth having; saying he didn't know how to identify and recruit quality players because his evaluations tended to match everyone else's is silly and unfounded. The one thing Hoke seemed to do really well is recruiting.
February 8th, 2015 at 12:05 PM ^
You can't interpret recruiting from an offer sheet. That' s just not how it works. Many top schools throw out offers in a scattershot mode. The big process in recruiting is how much the schools pursue a kid, if they bring him on campus, and so on. An offer sheet is one piece of data, and a very superficial one.
February 8th, 2015 at 10:56 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 12:14 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:07 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
Who or what is MORK?
February 8th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:08 AM ^
Streaming isn't working for me. WTKA streaming is always pure commercials. I'll wait for the podcast.
February 8th, 2015 at 11:20 AM ^
February 8th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
WTKA.com, podcasts, then scroll down far.