What would LC's '08 record have been if he hadn't retired?
I know some of you hate speculative hypotheticals, but it's the offseason and there are only so many recruiting videos to keep us occupied until September.
I was reading some old stuff regarding the debate about whether or not LC "left the cupboard bare", and it piqued my interest in this question.
I'm interested to hear what you all think LC's record would have been if Mallet had started every game for Michigan...
But in the interest of drawing a comparison to the situation RR encountered (i.e., no B10-caliber QB on the roster), I'm also interested to hear what you guys think LC's record would have been if Mallet had experienced a season-ending injury before the Utah game.
Please no more.
If you don't like it, then don't come into the thread.
Until fall rolls around, what the hell else are we supposed to do to pass the workday?
How about actual work? Oh wait.....nevermind I am not doing that either
Luckily a big part of my job is clicking run and waiting for a few hundred load cases to finish. So when IT asks me why I refreshed mgoblog 3,456 times in an 8-hour period, I have a semi-legitimate excuse.
I know what you mean. Brian has royally spoiled us with content and a place to slack off on slow days. However, my point was that if he doesn't want to see the thread he can go to another thread (or start his own) and actually contribute instead of someone else trying to pass the time while they too are bored.
These just aren't helpful. I know it's not the OP's intentions, but more often than not, these threads dissolve into a "RichRod is failing, should be fired," vs a "Llllloyd was over the hill and I'm glad he was ousted," sort of, uh, uglyness.
The question between two individuals isn't a bad one, but in a forum where tensions run high because the program is not where we would all like it, things often go south quickly.
Completely agree...why do people post on threads that they don't "like". Just move on...you do not run the site. If the head honchos don't like something, they will remove it.
This won't end well.
Oh, hi there self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well played, jonny.
Mallett transfers anyway... we go 3-9.
National Championship.
13-0, just like every other hypothetical season
8-4 or 7-5.
I'm sure this is something Mathlete could statistically figure out for you, or Misopogon could turn into a treatise - length analysis with fancy graphs and photoshopped movie pictures.
But my guess is 9-4.
6-6. Mallett gone, Minor and Brown both still injured, We might have kept Arrington but that's it for receivers. My guess is that we still lose to Utah, beat ND, lose to Wisconsin, beat Toledo, beat Purdue, and beat NW.
I agree except I think we beat Utah. We barely lost that game and if Mallett had been playing, we proabably would have won.
I agree that if Mallett was there, we would have won, but he was going to leave no matter what, so that's why I put it down as a loss.
I wish it had turned out differently. I really do. Michigan is my team. It's my school.
The RR hire dragged us into a nasty, public lawsuit. We're essentially been reduced to self-sanction. And our record under RR is worse than had the reins been handed over to *any* LC assistant.
Trying to figure out what Lloyd's record would be isn't going to change the cruel reality we've been faced with. Once the Titanic hits the iceberg, wondering how things would be different if it hadn't really doesn't do anyone any good.
Rational!
It needs to be September 4th....
Can a bear resist a beehive?
A) With Mallet (but no Mr. Plow), I'd guess 7-6. (Of course that would include a bowl loss.)
B) Without Mallet, 5-7. (Wins would include Purdue, NW, and Toledo but *not* Wisconsin. There would be lots of howling and whatnot from the fan base, too.)
Lloyd coached the same players as RR, (no mallett, manningham, arrington, etc) Michigan is NO better than 5-7 IMO.
Threet and Sherdidan were awful, with all due respect. That was the worst OL in Michigan history. Lloyd's staff would've gotten more out of Toney Clemons, but let's not forget Jr Hemingway didn't play all season after the Utah game. Don't forget about Minor and Brown being banged up all year as well. That team was just a mess.
5 of the 7 best returning 2008 OL did not ever put on a football uniform again outside of Justin Boren. Essentially, our backups' backups started,. Kraus and Long were not included in the 5 of 7 either.
Ah but Carr had a QB committ John Wienke, who decommitted and went to Iowa. We would not have necessarily been down to Sheridan and Threet if Mallett had left. Plus our quarteback coach was pretty damned good.
Have the last 2 seasons taught you nothing about pinning your hopes on a true freshman qb?
I get it. Just saying there may have been a more viable option that Nick and Steve. (Though I believe if Mallett had left, Steve was the guy.)
That said, I also believe that this is all silly, because Lloyd retired.
However, I think if Lloyd had stayed, Loefler would have stayed. And if so, then so would have Mallett.
WOTS was Mallett was gonzo, no matter what.
Tough call but I say 10-2, with the losses going to Penn State and Ohio State. I believe the cupboard was left bare in part because LC left. As much as we hate to admit it, Boren would have remained a Michigan Man, and Manningham may have returned to school. We would have had a pretty solid offense with Mallet at the helm, Minor/Brown, Manningham, and a fairly solid offense line. The defense would have been serviceable under English, having been in the same defense for a few years.
Mallet goes down before Utah...6-6. Insert the Force at QB and the M maintains its tradition of having a solid running game, with a dash of LC's version of the spread sprinkled in here and there. But these are all hypotheticals...
T. Jizzle
that Forcier was a freshman in 2009, right?
Oh yes, that minor detail. I was excited about the apportunity to remake Michigan's football history at the touch of a couple of keyboard keys. But then again, this is all hypothetical, right? I'm free to make up shit on the fly, even if it means the Force travels between California and Michigan on the weekends and plays a HS game on Friday and Michigan game on Saturday. He is THE FORCE after all.
not really.
He is the FORCE and you are a douche. This is based on inside information....T. Jizzle
Nice. There must be a rule book around here that I don't know about. Not sure how I became the douche when others did the name calling when they disagreed with my opinion/information. Glad I'm not thin-skinned ...
Mallet was gone no matter what. Same with Manningham. Arrington had a very good bowl game, so it would be hard to see him coming back. We probably kept Boren.
We still have Sheridan/Threet as QBs. Minor and Brown are still glass dolls. Our OL is still one of the worst in the last few decades. Our D would have been ok, but still not top of the B10 quality.
To think the '08 team could have won 10 games is fucking laughable whoever the coach was. 6-6 tops.
no matter what. There is no guarantee he would have left if LC stayed. Its tough to leave a guaranteed starting QB job as a sophomore despite his run in with Lloyd. There is just as good a chance he would have grown up over the spring and summer and stayed IMO. And for the purposes of this thread, I think that makes the record that year 7-5 and no worse.
He said himself that he always wanted to play at Arkansas, and when Mustaine announced he was taking off, I don't think Mallett wanted anything more.
I agree. But isn't equally as laughable to project what the team, Mallet, Manningham, Boren and Arrington all would have done had LC stayed? Ok, please and thanks.
I'm taking most of my stuff from reports.
Mallet was gone when Mustain left Arkansas, Petrino got the job, Mallet was homesick and didn't like Ann Arbor, and he had run ins with teammates and coaches. He had a foot out the door before the bowl game.
Manningham was going pro no matter what.
Who knows what Boren would have done but most feel that he would have stayed if not for RR coming and putting in a new offense/SC program.
There was a report leading up to the draft asking Arrington if he thought about coming back and he said not too much, stating his concerns with not only the coaching change, but all the starters that '07 team was losing. He knew he had scouts interested after his bowl performance and rode the momentum.
LC was a hell of a coach. But he didn't go 10-2 with alot of teams with better talent. He had teams that had 10X the talent of the '08 team and only went 8-4/9-3. To think a team with that much talent deficiency would go 10-2 is lunacy.
Interesting how you justify your position with more guessing, i.e. "Manning was going pro no matter what." But I imagine we all find our opinions, differences and guessing justfiable, if not biblical, on occasion.
By the way, following spring practice in 2008, I sat down with a current U of M Asisstant and the dad of HS friend who is very close to the program (as I do several times a year) that disagreed with your assessment of Manningham and Arrington. Both WR knew they didn't have a QB to throw them the ball with Mallet departing. That's why they left. But here I go injectining information from inside folks to a blogger justifying guessing with more guessing on a hypothetical blog question.
you thought Forcier was here in '08. Your just talking out your ass.
When did I talk about Manning going pro?
Manningham would have stayed if Mallet had? You've got to be high. Manningham fucking hated Mallett.
Everything I've put down has its basing from articles outside of Boren. If you feel the need to, go find them.
Ok, you got me. Game over...
- You cite articles and I cite a current coach and another man the players affectionately call Coach ___________ (since he was a football coach for an area HS for many years) and I'm the one talking out of my ass?
- I think you got my point even with the "ham" missing from Manningham's name.
- Now liking the quarterback is a prerequisite for deciding whether to go pro, despite how great the quarterback is? I'm almost certain that wouldn't have been the first time a WR didn't like his QB. But to your point, I can imagine how that would have played out had both players stayed - hypothetically, of course: Mallet hikes the ball and drops back. Manningham burns the best CB and safety for [insert team name here] with that sick double move of his. Mallet drops a 65 yard feathery bomb on Manningham's fingertips where only he can catch the ball. At the last second, however, Manningham retracts his fingertips in and lets the ball drop to the ground, thinking, "I fucking hate Mallet's country, showboating ass." After all, who would catch a ball from one of the best, if not the best, sophomore quarterbacks in the country and jeopardize his chance of going pro at the same time.
FWIW, GoBlue1065, this whole conversation, after I was negged for mistakenly putting the Force on the 2008 squad, and despite accurate information, was to see how many negs I could get from the people on this blog who take this shit way too serious.
Thanks for making my point.
So what the fuck did Lloyd do wrong to blow those 56 games
Where is rationalmsufan to give us his 0-13 prediction?
when you're 0-12...
yeah, that was part of the point, I guess I didn't explain it that well.
Assumptions:
Mallett stays. Arrington may have stayed or left. Wienke does not decommit nd go to Iowa. Benedict Boren stays. Minor and Brown both still made of glass. McGuffie may have redshirted. Grady has the bulk of the reps.
The defense plays better in year three under English. Much better. ('07 was the rebuilding year after many key draft departure on D)
W-L as follows:
Utah - a toss-up - win - based on defense
Miami of Ohio - win
ND - a toss up - win (maybe)
Wisconsin - loss
Illinois - a toss up - loss (can't defend read-option)
Toledo - win
Penn State - loss
Michigan State - a toss up - win based on D
Purdue - no 3-3-5 experiment - win
Minnesota - win
Northwestern - win
OSU - loss, but closer based on D