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I haven't forgotten at all what it was like to be a student. I had season tickets to both football and basketball all four years, and never missed a game. And we had fucking Brian Ellerbe as our coach during most of my time. If I could make it to see us get killed in half our games, you can find a way to see John Beilein's top 10 team in action. And yes, you can do that and still have fun, and still graduate.
Just about every person reading this blog, who were students at one point in time, has the same enthusiasm for Michigan sports. Every sport has a core group that attends every single game so congrats to you for going to all the basketball games. If you are telling us that the student section was packed for every game on the home schedule when you were a student I call BS.
The qualm I have with the AD isn't necessarily the overselling of student tickets it's the fact that they tricked and mislead students to believe they were buying one thing but then swapping it out with a whole new product mere weeks before tip off. That is stealing. If this policy was disclosed during the spring and summer months when students were signing up for tickets I'd be fine with the policy. Dropping this on the students during classes is just wrong.
Both sides have serious work to do.
Stop playing this moronic blame game, get movers and shakers from both parties together, and figure this shit out, instead of embarrassing the rest of us.
drive from all over the state of Michigan and further to attend games, and yet students who live on campus can't get their ass out there for a game. Think about that for a minute.
Ah yes the "there are starving kids overseas so eat the rest of your leftovers" argument.
that as a student you should go to as many games as possible when you are a student. When you graduate it may not be as easy to attend them as when you were a student and near campus.
All you adults did a great job of driving across the state of MI to attend bball games before we were a top ten team. All like, 100 of you that ever cared to come.
This post will anger you because of the tone. Thus now you know why much of what is posted here angers students -- simply tone. Though many have been frustrated by attendance figures for awhile, so I understand THEIR exasperation.
"I am being provided with an inferior product half the season. Now due to television, money and other factors, the scheduling in college football has gone to crap. In the Bo Schembechler days, Michigan played titans of college football like UCLA, Washington, Miami and Notre Dame in non-conference games. "
Maybe this changes some with the expansion to a nine-game conference shedule, and by that, I mean that perhaps they get more selective about who the OOC opponents will be in time. The general downward trend in overall quality was probably magnified by this past Saturday's slate of games, but I would think that it might take a lot to disincentivize these.
Attended every game from beginning to end. Rain or shine. Cold or hot and everything in between. Hung over!? no excuse
I'm clearly more on your side, OP, but are you actually a student?
"apethetic" I know it's one letter off, but it just looks so obviously wrong - apathetic
Yeah, I'm with the students on this one. Not everyone is a die-hard fan who is going to go watch South Carolina Central on a Tuesday night, so those attendance numbers are skewed. I sure as hell never went to those games, in fact I'm not sure I went to a non-conference game the whole time I was in college.
All of these changes are great if you're the super fan whose life revolves around the sport. But the average fan is still a fan, right?
Agreed. A lot of the bashing of the students is equivalent to the stalker girl with the crazy eyes making the "just love me because I need you to love me" argument. If you want to attract people you actually have to attract them. You can't just compel or guilt them.
But the "average fan" can still be a fan from somewhere way up in the stands. You still get to go to all the good games and show up late to the crappy ones, you just don't get Section 25 Row 5.
Where's the horrendous injustice?
But you don't get to go to all the good games. You don't get to go to MSU and possibly other games where more than 3000 students want to go.
Recent grad here so I tend so side more with the students. I agree that the athletic department is not treating the students very well. I don't think they're treating them unfairly but they're definitely not treating them well when they should be the first class citizens in the realm of Michigan athletics.
That said, this blog post is so awfully written that it really detracts from the point being made. As unfair as it may be, when you don't write like a Michigan student no one is going to take you seriously as one. I would hope the student body could come up with a little more well-written response than this.
This. I'm an "old alum" that actually happens to be on the students' side for the most part, but this blog post actually decreases my sympathy. The worst part was complaining about the FREE donuts that Hoke PERSONALLY DELIVERED. Entitled much?
Unacceptable!
Even if I was willing to consider the guy's argument, he lost me with the whining about the free donuts.
But seriously, complete lack of sympathy to the current students on all of their petulant whining. I attended every game as a student, was there early, and stayed until it was over. And found a bunch of friends who felt exactly the same way I did.
And when one of our friends left one game early in 4 years as a student, it was later commemorated for all eternity with a "gift" of a stadium brick listing the date, opponent and the inscription noting that he left the game early.
You know what I don't like? The "I went to every single solitary game so everyone else should too" argument. Not every can go, or wants to go to every basketball game. And that's OK. Football is one thing - they are all on the same day of the week (which is a weekend), there are only 6-8 of them all year and they all matter a lot.
Students have stuff going on during the week. I remember having basketball tickets only to find out about a lab I had to make up that evening so I didn't go. It wasn't a big game, but it wouldn't have mattered. I remember other games that I skipped because I just had too much studying to do. I usually had the game on in the background, but just the time I saved by not walking to Crisler and back allowed me to get my work done.
And you just can't expect Michigan students to be as passionate about basketball as they are about football. It's just different. I love MIchigan basketball. But it's not football.
My point is that not every student is the "I went to all the games every year from start to finish" kid, and if you only want those kids to come to the games - you'll have a lot of crowds like we had in 2004 or whatever.
If you don't want to then you don't have to. No one is forcing you to. However, if you want the best tickets then you'll have to step up. Either step up or quit complaining.
Well I live in Los Angeles so I won't be going to any of them. But it seems silly that if you want to go to the best games, you have to go to all of them. If I was still a student, I would have said, "Fine, then I won't go to any of them." Which is not what the AD wants, I would imagine.
No, the better solution is for AD is to say "fine, you don't have to show up for every game. But we are going to oversell the tix so that the student section is still full." I still don't understand what the problem is.
The problem is some kids will pay for season tickets and no be allowed in for MSU. That's a pretty big problem.
First, at most that is going to affect only 1500 students. Second, theses are the people who are least loyal. Third, they can still go buy regular tix for the MSU game. Even paying for the regular price you are still going to come out ahead compared to the regular season tix price.
Problem solved.
so you're just completely fine with the the athletic department stealing?
I have no idea when people are talking about "stealing". How could it be "stealing" when you could get a FULL REFUND if you are not happy with the deal? How could it be "stealing" when you could turn around and get a regular season ticket that guarantees you a seat no matter what?
If you do not like the deal, then get the full season tickets at the regular price.
If you want the HEAVILY discounted student tickets, then you are going to have to go along with it.
"I am going to rob your bank. If you catch me at it, I will give a FULL REFUND, so don't call what I do 'stealing.'" Gotcha.
1500 students is 1/3 of the number of people who bought tickets. That's not a small number. And why in the world should they have to buy regular tickets for a game for which they have already purchased a ticket?
Compared to over 50% of the kids who don't show up on most games, 1500 is a smaller number.
They are purchasing HEAVILY discounted tickets that come with certain restrictions. If you do not like the restrictions, you can buy guaranteed season tickets at the regular price.
You have a choice. Which one you choose is completely up to you.
They weren't sold with restrictions. The restrictions came after the sale
Heavily discounted ? The average student is buying a $30,000 licensing fee for the privilege of purchasing "discounted " tickets. Lets not forget that college athletics exist because it is a school with students. Become a pistons fan if the "discounted" student tickets piss you off.
The problem is some kids will pay for season tickets and no be allowed in for MSU. That's a pretty big problem.
I don't see that as a problem. Way fewer than 3,000 students will show up for many of the other games, and the ones that do will be the ones who get to see MSU. The ones who aren't allowed in for MSU are the ones who didn't go to any other games and bought season tickets just so they could see the glamor games.
If all you (generic "you") want to see is MSU, and you buy season tickets just for that game, and get locked out because you didn't go to the others, just buy a regular ticket for that game, it'll be cheaper.
Are you thinking that the lower students seats aren't full for all the games? Because that impression is wrong. The empty seats (and there are a lot of them) in the lower area that would look bad are on the non-student seats. We should probably allow students to occupy these seats if they aren't full after 5 min of game time and then make the skippers forfeit their right to the bigger games.
You need to go to the games you commit to attending, in order to have a claim on an MSU ticket.
Point of clarity - the best student seats are always full. The upper overflow seats are just as empty as the general admission upper seats. Also - not all of the lower "high price" seats bought by alumni/older fans are full for mid-week crap games. Where is the outcry to oversell these tickets?
Not true for others. I was at Arkansas on a SATURDAY in the upper deck a couple of sections over and it was full. The student section up top was empty. The only empty section.
tix. Students who had been season ticket holders for 4 years had full season. Those of us who had applied within the past two years split the season with another student. It was perfect- except back then students were jammed in the upper bowl. Students today would die if they had to sit where we did. No students in lower bowl at all!!!
Oh the basketball team isn't worth watching? Good thing you sold back. Those national championship games are a real bore right
Yep a preseason top 5 team that went to the NCAA tournament last year and has an amazing recruiting class has NO chance to be in the title game. In fact, they will be terrible so why should I go see them play?
You didn't make it very well.
as an outside bystander for this little slap fight, I am waiting for you to post a fact and not thinly veiled subjective opinions
They've only had one good season in recent years? So are we only counting seasons that they make it to the title game good? WE ARE BACK!!!!!
That's actually not true...in this particular thread, you haven't given very many facts at all. You've simply reiterated your opinion (about fifteen different ways) that the team has been bad, thus the students are right not to show up. You would have gone miles farther in my mind had you not called last year's product unworthy of watching (which you were guilty of by not specifying that you were referring to teams five years ago). Besides all the preseason accolades, that team was simply damn fun to watch. In fact, national pundits raved about the quality of basketball on the floor in the national championship game, and that was the same team we saw on the court all season save for a short stretch at the end of the season. You are going to come back and say "but students couldn't have predicted that" but that's not the point.....we're talking about students with season tickets in hand last year that didn't show up, not those that chose not to buy them. Those students saw the most entertaining team in the country and still decided not to show up.
Now all that said....I happen to be on the side of students in general. What would make me livid if I were a student is that the rules changed AFTER most had bought their tickets (in a similar vein, I think they should have staged in GA for football over four years so that nobody had to forfeit any seniority they earned under prior rules). Going forward, the system is what it is and students should have the ability to choose to buy or not buy....but the AD has done them wrong for the way in which they're going about this, and it's going to come home to roost with a "lost generation" of alums if they're not careful.
What you said was
You know what else you had in 1993? A basketball team worth watching.
And what I said was, by not specifying, you were lumping all the teams together. I think the vast response to your message is proof that you did not make your point well, which is how I entered this discussion.
Always humurous when someone doesn't realize that they're the jackass in the room.
Thanks for the laugh.
My point is that people who grew up watching awful teams in a terrible arena and then witnessed the worst sanctions ever may not have much interest in basketball when they grow up.
If you're right, and there isn't that much interest in basketball, then the new system won't be a problem.
20+ win seasons in 4 of the last 5 years. They're the ones who can buy tickets.
If you don't like it don't go. I graduated last year and I have no problem with this policy. The department rewards those who are fans for every game not just the important games. You have some people pissed but I promise you a few upset students won't hurt them.
Where are those fans coming from?
Seriously? The rest of Crisler isn't more than half full for those filler games either.
I understand that now they can sell those tickets and make more money, but the point has been made above that you can build a relationship with future alumni, and in the lean years you can expect a more faithful fan base.
Get over yourself! "I had to pay full price to see Inferior opponents. Back when Bo coached ..." Ugh! Bo would have told you to grow a pair. We have scheduled cupcakes for as long as we have scheduled. "Why do I have to pay for improvements to facilities that I won't use?" Because that is how it works. As an institution we build on the shoulders of giants and to future students you are one of those giants.
These are the momentous issues of injustice that occupy students now? Maybe they should stage a sit in. But don't sit too close to Jay ... Smells like vinegar.
Edit: And what are the "upper annals" of the stadium?
"why should I have to pay for improvements I won't even get to use!!?"
Holy shit is that a egocentric statement and completely ignorant of how greatness (or even simply sustainability) is achieved.
I'll just take my 7 years of tuition back then, along with everyone who came before that yutz, and he can have his own private Michigan of Jay financed exclusively by his payments to the university.
