Way OT: The Joys of Homeownership
Mods please take this down if it’s too OT, although it might also be helpful to others that are looking to buy a house.
So I just took another kick in the nuts this morning and it got me thinking about others’ homeownership problems. Misery loves company after all. So please chime in with your own stories. Anyway, here’s my issue.
I bought this house (my first house) 4 years ago (May 2017). It is an older house, from the 1950s, so I knew there would be issues. But the location is great (location, location, location, 5 minutes from work, etc.) and it is an established neighborhood where housing prices never really go down. I had no idea that it would immediately turn into a money pit.
1. The original hardwood floors started buckling within the first 4 months. They actually raised about 4 inches in some areas, went down in the winter when I stopped using the AC, and then buckled again in the summer. Last spring they buckled again and haven’t gone down. I found out last fall that the subfloor is rotting and needs to be replaced. But I can’t get the subfloors replaced yet because…
2. They also found water under the house. Like most houses here, it is pier and beam which means that it is raised about 12-14 inches from the ground with an open crawl space. Water drains from the back yard and settles under the house. Hence the subfloor rotting. I need to have a drainage system set up around the house before I can replace the subfloors. Otherwise, they’d just rot again.
None of this was picked up in the home inspection. In fact, the inspector wrongly claimed in his report that there was a drainage system. So now I need to put in a drainage system, replace the subfloors, and install new flooring.
3. There have been on and off problems with the AC. I’ve spent about $2000 for repairs over the last three years. After another visit today they told me I need a new AC system rather than repairs because it’s almost 20 years old (from 2003). I was surprised at this because I clearly remember the inspector saying it was a newer system. So I checked the inspection report and, yep, he said it was only 4 years old (installed in 2013) when I bought the house. It’s actually 10 years older than he said it was.
I won’t even mention the periodic drips in the roof (supposedly a 5 year old roof when I purchased).
Other than these issues, I really love the house. Great neighborhood for running/walking the dog, big yard in the middle of the city, etc.
So what are your nightmare stories? Is it too early to start drinking?
Man that sucks! Any chance of going after the inspector? The drainage system mistake is pretty significant!
Go after that inspector.
Home inspections/inspectors are a huge racquet imo. I've had to correct things a home inspector has said is wrong in my field. Most of the time half of them are just minor/dumb things that pose no risk/harm and the other half are things that are not code violations that feels like they made them up. From my experience with them, they know a lot about 1 aspect, maybe 2, then nothing to very little about the rest.
Personally I think they are a waste of money and you'd be better off having someone from each trade take a look, but thats just me. It'll cost you more upfront, but save in the long term if there's truly something wrong with the place.
I bought a new house this past Saturday. Inspection is scheduled for this Friday. My real estate person picked an inspector she trusts (for what that’s worth) and I’m bringing my contractor who did all of the work on my current house over the years. Hopefully I won’t go into this house as blind as the OP did.
3 adults working from home forced me to buy a house that could handle us and a 4th adult for the next few months.
Ack
Having your agent pick the inspector is a glaring conflict, even more so if your agent is not a buyer's agent. Had a bad experience with this dynamic.
She is the buyers agent in this case. AND I’m bringing my guy along. In Michigan, any licensed contractor can act as a house inspector. My guy is licensed.
when I bought this house, the guy was just a business card. He didn’t do that great of a job. This time, the outfit looks like they specialize in this and include radon testing.
I was wondering if that was possible.
It is possible. You will have two issues - first, given that the inspection occurred four years ago, the statute of limitations might have run. Second, even if not barred, you will need an expert to establish that your inspector fell below the applicable standard of care. This is not a huge thing, but it will cost you money in the short term.
Good luck.
What might also not be available due to statute of limitations issues (not my area of law or my state) is whether there was a requirement for the party from whom you purchased the house to disclose preexisting problems of which they were aware and that they failed to do so.
This.
I feel like I need to take cuts here.
Hey blue@lsu, I'm in the Flooring business for over 15 years, wood is still a living entity even after it is cut down from a tree, the reason pro Installers install a floor about a 1/4 inch from the walls all around is because wood expands in heat and contracts in cold weather, this is why baseboards are so important besides giving the floor a clean finished look.
Maybe consider a "water proof" tongue and groove LVT, luxury vinyl tile, the reason for the quotation is because nothing is really 100% waterproof, but more water resistant, if you will. Maybe that can solve your problem.
Would be surprised if you the inspector and his company can be held responsible. I’m sure the property condition report provided by the inspector has language indemnify the inspector and findings.
check your PUrchase agreement
Yea paging all the mgolawyers...
Yeah it is!
Spent around five grand a few years ago to put in a sump pump and trench system along two of the walls in the finished basement. All good to go for a bit. Came home from vacation last year to find carpet and walls ruined because sump pump just stopped running. Warranty from the company paid for a replacement only. Nothing for damages. Homeowners insurance told me they will cover, but not malfunctions. I asked what the hell else would it be? Their response was they would cover if the water was coming in at a faster rate than the pump was pumping out. That was their idea of coverage. (So I told them that was probably what happened. But because I was not home to witness it happening in real time, no go.)
New pump, trenched the rest of the perimeter of the house, new floor, carpet, walls, by the time it all got finished, $22,000.
Thank goodness the old man drilled into my head as a kid the idea of an emergency fund.
If you're on city water you can have an automatic back-up sump installed that runs off of the water main.
Your water bill will go through the roof it it ever has to run, but it's a hell of a lot less than the deductible if your basement floods.
When I had a sump pump I used a battery backup and it worked fine - after a sump pump failed and flooded an unfinished basement.
Most basement flooding comes from poor drainage. Make sure water drains away from your house - grade changes, downspout extensions before expensive basement water proofing systems.
My only concern with a battery backup is the increased points of failure. With one on the water main, the only moving part is a solid steel impeller. And I'm paranoid about power outages. I grew up in a home where power could be out for days at a time, so there's no way a battery would last running a pump every 90 seconds.
That's why it was funny when my parents got a backup generator connected to the LP tank two years after I moved out. No more power outages for them!
The Master Handyman Glen Haege (RIP) agrees with you - IF you are on city water. But if you have a well or a community well the water powered would not work. In the City of Ann Arbor water costs a lot so I'd rather do a battery for short term and a generator for long term outages.
In Oakland county, they have basically disallowed this. We had to have our water pressure operated backup sump pump removed and replaced with a battery backup one. The water pressure operated apparently have a small probability of backing up into the main water supply and tainting your drinking water.
There was an option to install a special one way valve, but it cost way more than taking out the backup pump and replacing it. Oh, and, if you choose to install the one way valve, you are subject to annual, in-person inspections at about $125 a pop!
My Dude. I want you to go onto Amazon tonight and order a Govee WIFI water alert system. Place one into your sump pit and the others throughout the basement. Depending on circumstances you may still suffer flooding by you may be able to limit your loss. I still have not figured out a reliable way, outside of watching water physically discharge from your outlet pipe each week, to see when a sump quits working but a nice loud alert + push notification may help for any future instances.
My understanding, at least here in Utah, is that the Home Inspector can only be held liable for the amount they charged for the inspection. The law may differ in MI though.
Not to defend what sounds like a pretty crappy inspector, but it was absolutely drilled into us that inspectors are not magicians. They can give you context and check the big, visible stuff, that you just may not have background knowledge on. But they can't see under floors or into walls. There is always an element of risk there. They are not liable for something that they can't find without ripping the house apart.
But then why did they say there's a drainage system? I'm not a lawyer or a homeowner, but some people mentioned the agreement may have an indemnity clause. That may not hold up in court though. No idea what the law is, but law can supersede contracts. You can't just say or do whatever you want just because there's a contract. No idea whether it's really worth going after them either.
Interesting thread all around though. Planning to move back to America and rent is more expensive than I pay here in Korea. Was thinking I'd like to buy a house ASAP. Obviously I know there'd be upkeep but seems like a bit of a money pit for some. I was thinking I may actually prefer a cheap place really falling apart because at least you already know what you're getting into versus paying a lot for what you think is in good shape. Would love hardwood floors with underfloor heating.
kbchex is exactly right here
The floors buckled so severely at our cottage that you could literally roll a softball under the wall between the living room and office. Several floor beams were broken. The sump pumps were insufficiently numerous and powerful to keep that area dry. (This is along the St. Clair River.)
My pops and I decided to cut a hole in the floor, crawl through the muck under the house bringing 8 jacks, synchronizedly lift the *whole thing up* (3 stories) and replace every underlying beam. It still wasn't cheap, but doing it ourselves probably cut the cost by 80-90% (presuming, of course, that our time is worthless).
Any chance you and your Pops want to make a trip down here for some work? I'll make a big pot of Gumbo!
Hmm, we love gumbo but are on the fence. However, if you can throw in a conference championship this fall and we'll take care of every house in your neighborhood.
However, if you can throw in a conference championship this fall and we'll take care of every house in your neighborhood.
I'm sure Juwan will deliver that no problem. Oh, wait, you're not talking football, are you?
I also have a cottage that needs that kind of work. It’s right on Torch Lake. You can do it!
You open to selling or know anyone who is? (dead serious...I've started looking to buy on one of the nice lakes up there)
i didnt realize the title here was sarcastic. we just bought a home in March this year and are loving every bit of it, so was going to add our story. sorry you're having troubles, and since you are, i'll save my glee for a different thread...
Actually, please feel free to share them. It won't make me feel bad. Like I said, there are things I really love about the house and, if push came to shove, I'd probably choose this same house all over again.
I absolutely expected it to be a sarcastic post.
Homeownership is great and it's also over-rated in many ways.
We're at the point now where we're replacing pretty much everything. 42 year old house, lived here for 13, have replaced in the last 5 years:
- roof
- gutters/drains
- windows
- patio doors
- garage doors and openers
- both furnaces
- water heater
- water softener/chlorine system
- well pump
- septic lift station and pump
- sump pump (a couple of times since we've owned the house, actually)
Will have to replace in the next 1-3 years
- asphalt driveway
- both AC units
- garage floor (maybe not replace, but definitely need to repair and level)
That doesn't even include the renovations we've done just to get the house a bit more modernized. These are all just the foundational things.
No, I would say you can drink now. I can't, but you can.
My house is a non-descript ranch built in 1967, and in the 17 years we've owned it, we've replaced almost the entire electrical system within the house, the central heating, the air conditioning, the dishwasher (four times), the kitchen sink and all the plumbing down from that to the basement (major leak), the stove (twice), the dryer (twice), the washer, the floors in every room, the roof, the driveway, the back patio, and a lot of other things trauma is not allowing me to list at the moment.
Ah yes, owning a home, especially one that came with its own personality....
You see, I feel better already. ?
jk. Sorry about all the problems you've had.
Wow, I thought we were bad going through appliances. We have owned out house for 8 year and are on our 3rd dishwasher, 3rd stove (now a cook top and double wall oven) 3rd refrigerator, and 3rd microwave. To be fair though, we got rid of the stuff that came with the house soon after we moved in and then did a major kitchen remodel.
And you know that ugly stuff you got rid of right away would still be working to this day!
Sounds like some folks need to start hand washing those dishes =D
After watching This Old House for years, I would never buy and old house.
I currently have a black bird flying around my back yard with bird crap in its mouth which it keeps dropping in my pool. I'm about ready to go out with my 16 gauge...
Bird crap ... out of its mouth? Do you even zoology, bro?
Beak? Did some googling and ended up in bird forum. I guess it's quite common:
I suspect that your bird is carrying and leaving faecal sacs. These are a special type of dropping produced by fledglings in the nest which are carried away by the parents to ensure the nest stays clean. All perching birds do this, and I guess that is what your quote refers to. It will only go on until the fledglings have left the nest. The time to fledge varies from species to species but is of the order of two weeks.
See? They're just trying to be sanitary and leave the shit in your giant backyard toilet.
16 gauge may be a bit aggressive for a blackbird but I guess if you want to make sure the job gets done...
.177 Cal air rifle. Silent and with a proper scope you can site those in to give Lincoln a haircut on a penny from 20 yards. Unless you're rural like me then by all means use the shotgun!
Get equipment breakdown coverage on your homeowners. Ac breaks, furnace breaks, lawn mower breaks, etc., they're pretty much covered
I would strongly advise securing a good real estate attorney to review all your purchase & inspection documents carefully. The seller has a legal and enforceable responsibility to disclose all known defects in the home prior to purchase and the stuff you list seems pretty noticeable to me.
I would also have them review the contract you signed with the home inspector to see if they own any of the responsibility for missing the drainage issue. I'm no attorney but missing on something that big with a remedy as expensive as the one you're facing seems like a pretty big deal.
Sorry you're having these issues. I've owned a lot of homes through the years and never had issues anything close to what you're facing. Hope you get them resolved.
I was wondering about that. The guy that's gonna do the drainage said that if I had bought the house last year that I could probably have some claim against the seller. He said there's no way that they couldn't have known about the water under the house, and the buckled flooring doesn't just appear out of the blue. They should've reported it, but he said it's too late now. I'll have to look into it.
If I were jaded to the lack of human social conscience, I'd say the inspector was in cahoots with the home owner in selling you that beachfront property in Arizona. Sniff them all on FB, I have a dollar that says they're friends, or acquainted in some way.
Yes, to add to MGrowOld's comment, you should have gotten a disclosure statement from the seller which lists any known problems or defects that the home sale is being made under. If they didn't disclose several of the problems you mentioned or misrepresented the age of the room and AC system for example, you'd have a strong legal case. But only if there isn't some sort of time limit on when claims can be made. I have no idea on that.
Once you get the drainage problem fixed and subfloor replaced, I would strongly recommend also waterproofing the crawl space. That basically involves putting in vapor barriers, insulation, and venting to reduce/prevent moisture from migrating to the crawl space to the house. Good luck!