The Vig - week 2
Pretty 'meh' week this week. Who is on your dance card?
Here's a couple of games I like:
Rutgers -1.5 @ Syracuse and the over
Buffalo +13.5 @ Nebraska
Iowa +4.5 @ Iowa State
Texas -7.5 @ Arkansas
Washington +6.5 @ Michigan (if they are getting their WR corps back)
September 10th, 2021 at 8:48 AM ^
I parlayed the following money lines:
Iowa over Iowa State +145
Buffalo over Nebraska +350
South Carolina over ECU +115
3 pick parlay +2270
September 10th, 2021 at 9:30 AM ^
+1 for putting your bets out there BEFORE the games are played
99% of the "winners" tell you about their great gambling skillz on Monday.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
It takes a lot of guts to add a parley of a team that's more a less a pick em (+115) to a card with a (+350).
If I hit on Buffalo winning I would want to shoot myself if ECU won and mucked it up.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:55 PM ^
Scared money don't make money.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
My likes this week;
Miami -9
Michigan/Washington: Under at 48.5
Illinois +10
Stanford +17
Iowa + 4.5
Rutgers -1.5
September 10th, 2021 at 8:53 AM ^
See, I may be a homer but taking Michigan seems like free money, unless you think Washington will put up more than 14 or so offensive points, which seems fairly unlikely.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:19 AM ^
Well played.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:00 AM ^
I heard a stat this morning that said in our last 12 matches against the Pac 12, Michigan is 1-11 ATS.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:17 AM ^
What about against Pac 12 teams that just lost to Montana?
September 10th, 2021 at 10:37 AM ^
Gambler's fallacy. Past results don't indicate future success (or failure).
September 10th, 2021 at 11:50 AM ^
The guy that started taking Pac12 teams vs Michigan when they were 1-4ats disagrees.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^
False. The gamblers fallacy applies to random propositions like a coin flip or a roulette wheel. Sports betting vs the spread is not that.
Vegas sets the spread for one singular reason - to equalize betting on each side of the bet so that they get 50% of the wagered money, plus the juice (10% typically). Therefore the spread is market driven, so you are essentially betting that you are smarter than the mob betting the other side. Michigan fans are more numerous than any other school, and therefore casual bettors tend to bet for their team regardless of the spread. Also teams that are historically good that are currently underperforming (sound familiar) typically do poorly ATS because the casual bettor can't bring themselves picking Toledo over Penn State no matter what the spread is - they have a subconsious resistance to circle "Toledo" on their betting sheet, even when the spread is overwhelmingly in their favor.
Class dismissed.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:38 AM ^
I am not a fan of historical arguments, especially this one. Every year is different. Every team is different year to year. There are countless moving parts in the statement "last 12 matches against the Pac 12, Michigan is 1-11 ATS" that it means absolutely nothing to the game that will be played on Saturday night.
Forget about BPONE. Just look at the week 1 results. Look at the rosters. Look at the setting. Objectively, what do your eyes tell you?
BTW, if I don't think Michigan can cover ATS, I don't bet it because I hate betting against my team. If that is the case and I still want skin in the game I will typically bet the O/U. Or tease the spread with the O/U.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
I am not a fan of historical arguments, especially this one. Every year is different. Every team is different year to year. There are countless moving parts in the statement "last 12 matches against the Pac 12, Michigan is 1-11 ATS" that it means absolutely nothing to the game that will be played on Saturday night.
I completely agree. I assume this stat only counts games against teams that were in the Pac-10/12 at the time the game was played, which would exclude a couple games against Utah when they were in the MWC. If that's the case, you have to go all the way back to the 1997 season for the start of that streak, as twelve Pac 12 games ago was against Washington St. in the Rose Bowl. Forgive me if I don't see the relevance of games nearly two and a half decades and three coaches ago on the outcome of this game.
For the record, as best as I can tell, Harbaugh appears to be 1-2 ATS against the Pac 12 at Michigan. 2015 Oregon St. was an ATS win, and it looks like we failed to cover by a few points against Utah in 2015 and Colorado in 2016.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:23 PM ^
Digging into Harbaugh's 1-2 ATS record against Pac 12 teams a little more, first, you can ignore the Utah game if for no other reason that than was on the road. Harbaugh's ATS record on the road against anyone even halfway decent has been horrible, Pac 12 team or not, so I don't see how that game affects our chances at home. And looking at that 1-11 ATS mark again, over half of those games were "on the road" (four true road games and three Rose Bowls), and we were 0-7 ATS, but I don't see why West Coast road trips are relevant to our performance at home.
So Harbaugh is 1-1 ATS against Pac 12 teams at home, but even that doesn't tell the full story. Colorado was criminally undervalued early in the 2016 season; they ended up being a fringe top 10 team and won their division, but a 19.5 point spread makes them out to be mediocre at best. If the early season take on Colorado was even halfway accurate, that spread is a lot lower and we cover. Even with the artificially high spread we still nearly covered (we won by 17), and would have if we didn't dick around and dig ourselves into a 14 point hole to start the game.
TLDR: While we may be 1-11 ATS against Pac 12 teams dating back to 1997, the more relevant stat is that Harbaugh is 1-1 ATS at home against Pac 12 teams, and even that 1-1 feels more like 1.5-.5...
September 10th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
Well, let's talk facts then.
Washington's defense limited Montana to 127 yards rushing - nearly 1/3 of which came on one play.
Washington's defense allowed a 50% completion rate to Montana for a sparkling 4.6 yard/attempt average.
In short, Washington's defense performed exactly up to what you would expect a top 20 team's defense to do against FBS competition.
This isn't BPONE, it's fact.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:38 PM ^
Sure, their defense did what it was supposed to. How’d their offense look?
September 10th, 2021 at 5:23 PM ^
Its also factual that it was FCS Montana. With that being said though, this line should be more just by going off week 1 results. Everything in me but my brain is telling me to give the points. But my brain is saying don't do it. This line is too good to be true. And when that happens and i take it, I usually lose.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:34 PM ^
UM has been pretty weak ATS over the last little bit here (in my short time of paying attention). The program seems to have an aversion to running up the score on teams they are heavily favored over, add in how many games they barely win when they are favored and the games they lose as favorites it’s hard to understand why any gambler would have faith in them to cover while an underdog.
That’s not to say they never cover, but when I’ve been looking it’s felt like picking the opponent of UM to cover has been the higher percentage play.
September 10th, 2021 at 8:57 AM ^
I saw on ESPN their CFB betting guys (the Bear et al) said taking Washington and the points was the way to go while harping that M went 0-4 last season at home, but failed to mention Washington hasn't played an away game since 2019. That's right, they literally have not played an away game under Jimmy Lake, but they're going to cover 7 points on the road, at night, a week after losing to a B+ FCS unit.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:10 AM ^
I don't have the exact stats at hand but I heard it earlier this week: teams after losing to FCS opponents cover upwards of 70% of the time, IIRC.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
I think that's a fair point, but since most of those teams are losing to FCS teams early in the season in non-conference play, how many of those games the following week are at home against a bad FBS opponent? I doubt many of those covers are going on the road to play a top 20-30 team.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:46 AM ^
I saw the breakdown of who teams played after losing to an fcs team, and they were pretty much all playing fbs scrubs, except for... Michigan losing to Oregon in 2007 lol.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:56 AM ^
I'd think weeks 2-3 are probably the easiest weeks to make money for professional bettors as the public wildly overreacts to tiny sample sizes, and there is probably no bigger overreaction than from a big upset like an fcs team over an fbs team. Not to mention Montana probably isn't a meaningfully worse team than Western. I feel basically the same way about this game as I would have two weeks ago if you told me Washington was without their top 4 receivers, which is relatively confident but could easily see it being like a 24-17 type game,
September 10th, 2021 at 9:11 AM ^
You can talk me into taking the points with Washington but to not mention they have never played a road game under Lake and then act like last years home record with zero fans in the stands means anything seems crazy.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:29 AM ^
I think underrating Washington may be a mistake. The year we lost to an FCS team in our opener (2007), as Washington just did, we went on to beat 5 ranked teams, including two on the road, beat Notre Dame 38-0, and then beat a Tim Tebow's Florida in the Citrus Bowl. In other words, being embarrassed by an FCS team in your home opener doesn't necessarily mean you suck.
Also also, while I was as enthusiastic about that win last week against Western as anyone, I've been gobsmacked at how quickly people have decided we're a damned good team, forgetting that they talked in exactly the same terms after we beat Minnesota last year. Sorry, one win against a bad team just isn't enough.
In other words, we'll learn more on Saturday. Assertions that there's no way Washington can score 14 offensive points seem unjustifiably confident. I, for one, am keeping my fingers crossed.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
Here's hoping Washington's 2021 season looks EXACTLY like Michigan's in 2007, including a big time L in week two.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
Right on!
September 10th, 2021 at 9:43 AM ^
Sure, but we lost to a much better FCS team, and we weren't held to 7 points.
Scoring 7 points on an FCS defense is pretty much unheard of. There is not a quick fix for that. If Washington scores 21 or more offensive points we should drive Jim to DTW just to fire him on the tarmac.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:58 AM ^
The quick fix could be getting receivers back from injury and them having them get to play our very questionable secondary
September 10th, 2021 at 10:30 AM ^
I'd be careful of reading too much into it. A FCS team holding a FBS team to 7 or fewer points is rare, but not unheard of (and not just because Vandy scored only three against East Tennessee State on Saturday).
Northwestern managed to lose to Illinois State 9-7 in 2016 and recovered well enough to beat 8-5 Iowa and managed to stay tied with Ohio State well into the fourth quarter before losing 24-20. I didn't look up the line for that game but I don't think Ohio State covered.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:56 PM ^
I'm not saying you're wrong per se, but if Michigan had just lost to a FCS team how many of us do you think would be giving us a chance against Washington?
This season has made it more clear than ever that our fanbase loves to over-inflate Michigan's weaknesses and pretend that other teams invariably have shit figured out. If you were a neutral fan, would you think Washington has any shot in hell? I'm guessing no.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:05 PM ^
I'm just saying I suspect the Montana game was something of an aberration. Washington is almost certainly a better team than they showed last week, and by the end of the season I strongly suspect the results will show that. (Or Jimmy Lake will be looking for a new job.)
At the same time, I do like Michigan's chances here. Playing on the road is going to be tough, and I think Michigan is in a position where it can exploit those weaknesses.
September 10th, 2021 at 6:35 PM ^
Actually, yes. That's exactly the point -- I'm suggesting we should pull the brakes on the overreaction by both fan bases to the first game of the season.
In fact, if Michigan loses, then our fan base will overreact by crying that we just lost to a team that lost to Montana!
Every game is different, and things can change from one week to the next. Remember Maryland being one tipped pass away from beating Ohio State two years ago?
The transitive property doesn't work so well in football. Past results don't guarantee future performance, and all that.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:44 AM ^
You are correct, 2007 did eventually turn around. We also got completely clobbered the following week after App State at home to a good Oregon team, and that Notre Dame team was atrocious (incidentally, I was at both of those games- side note, ND was the beginning of the Jimmy Clausen era and the team deeply disliked him, the center intentionally snapped the ball over his head on the first play of the game almost resulting in a safety).
I'm not saying we're a damn good team and that Washington is awful. I'd just be very surprised if they can turn things around in a week, unless we help them out and play an awful game.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
Yes, but that same year, in the game immediately following our loss to an FCS school, we got absolutely obliterated in a way that Michigan hadn't (to that point) been obliterated at home in my memory. So even in your example of a good team losing to an FCS school, they still had clear problems that were further exposed by better talent. That Michigan team also had a senior Henne and senior Hart and was coming off what would have been a playoff season if there was a 4 team playoff, so they were pretty loaded. Given the talent on that team, it's not surprising they were able to finish with a respectable record and some nice wins.
Washington is now two years removed from the Chris Petersen era, and is coming off a Covid year where they went 3-1 against the meh part of the Pac 12 (they played the last-place teams in both divisions), and gave up over 20 points in all of those games. They have a shaky QB, a seemingly porous OL, and they're missing the better half of their receiving corps. A better parallel might be the Florida team that lost to Georgia Southern. They were initially ranked highly, partly due to their long success under a coach that had departed a few years earlier, but their Wile E. Coyote years were ending in 2013. The Georgia Southern game was the penultimate game on their schedule, and famously featured a play where one of their players blocked one of their other players. After the loss to Georgia Southern, they hosted Florida State and lost by 30.
I'm not saying Michigan is going to go out and win 42-10, or that Washington is going to miss a bowl game, but losing to an FCS school is a sign that you have serious issues that are not going to be ameliorated by going on the road against significantly better competition. If their receivers suddenly get healthy, maybe it's a different story, but right now I'd be surprised if Michigan doesn't win by a couple touchdowns.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
I remember after the App. State game expressing my disappointment to Doug Karsch, and he said, "Oregon runs a spread offense as well -- we're going to get crushed by them too, but after that we should be good." That's before the Oregon game. Aside from it speaking to Karsch's understanding of the game and remarkable prognostication abilities, it suggests it's not always about talent, but, sometimes, also about offensive design and match-ups.
I'm not saying Montana is a secret power. All I'm saying is, if you think Washington's offense won't score 14 points in games against FBS teams this year, you're kidding yourself. I hope they don't this weekend, certainly, but this conviction that Washington sucks is premature. All we know is that they sucked last week. That's different.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:02 PM ^
I agree. Some how I think Washington scores a minimum of 21 points (probably 28) so that means we are a couple of dropped and tipped passes away from a rock fight. I predict that UW team tomorrow wont look much like the one from last week. And that makes no logical sense but sometimes kids are sleepwalking and I think that happened to them las week.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:16 AM ^
0-4 at home in a Covid year in an empty Big House is a lot different than playing there when it's packed.
The problem with winning like we did is that it's difficult to find the warts.
Washington knows theirs, but they can't all be fixed, Their vaunted Oline was awful and that made their OB hurry his throws and make bad decisions. If they fix the Oline that could solve those issues.
Their receiving corps is down to walk-ons and Morris is a little guy with average arm strength (no deep threat) and poor mechanics on the run, which leads to bad accuracy. Those can't be fixed.
Defensively they have 2 lock-down corners and a strong line. They are weak at inside linebacker and average at safety. If our running-backs get to the second level they will get yards. I expect a lot of plays up the middle. All could see a lot of balls.
There are causative and correlative statistics. ATS, noon games, night games, weather games, teams following a loss against teams wearing black jerseys are all correlative and should be avoided as much as the law of averages - gamblers fools-gold.
The raw facts are they have an average QB whose main target will be a tight-end. Their defense is strong but has an exploitable weak link.
It will, for the most part be a defensive struggle, but I think we have the schemes and horses on both sides of the ball to pull away late and cover. 24-14.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
One team has its act together on both sides of the ball; one doesn’t.
The arguments against M are understandable, but they’re pretty much all based on stuff that happened months or years ago. (Or on suppositions: Maybe UW’s receivers will get healthy; maybe UW will just play better.)
September 10th, 2021 at 9:26 AM ^
I am putting my money on Buffalo to cover.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:27 AM ^
Rutger is Smooth Jimmy's Lock of the Week.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
Syracuse blows so this is a good choice.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:21 AM ^
FWIW so do I. So much so I just parlayed Rutgers -2 & Buffalo +14.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:15 PM ^
+14 was almost tempting enough, but I just can't bring myself to trust Mo Linguist.
September 10th, 2021 at 8:26 PM ^
I am with Smooth Jimmy this week on Rutgers.
Also, Iowa +4.5.
Also the Michigan under. I think it was 48.5
All look like popular picks which spells doom. Good luck everyone. Win big!
September 10th, 2021 at 9:35 AM ^
Totally agree with Rutgers and Texas.
Miami (YTM) -9 hosting App State is also easy money
(App State nightmare memory caveats apply)
I think you're gonna lose your money on Iowa and Washington.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:36 AM ^
You lost me at "bet against Michigan". I won't.