Very OT: Matt Campbell was NOT offered a contract by the Lions
I know this is a VERY unimportant story but I can't stand when some members of the media make outlandish statements out of thin air in order to generate buzz. Clearly this Dennis Dodd guy (the one who claimed the offer was made) was full of it. Either he was fed bad info or made it all up on his own. From Dave Birkett (Lions beat writer) via Pride of Detroit on SB Nation:
Could be true but I wouldn't take a source from the Lions at face value. What are they going to tell the reporter, "Yeah we offered this guy the moon and he turned us down"?
The dude never even interviewed with the Lions. There was no smoke that they were going to make an offer for him at the time. The eight year part of the contract offer itself is pretty outlandish. Nobody is making that offer to a first-time head coach.
It seems a lot more likely that they called Campbell, had a brief discussion about general numbers, and they found there wasn't mutual interest. Now, as recruiting is kicking into full gear, teams are starting to negatively recruit ISU by saying that Campbell isn't going to stick around, and someone within ISU leaks that "Oh actually, he turned down this giant contract from the Lions, he's not going anywhere!"
The source that the OP cites literally says, “But, Birkett’s source confirmed that “the Lions’ conversations with (Matt) Campbell did not go beyond their first interview.”. Then the Lions went on to give a six year contract to someone who’s head coaching experience is one year as an interim coach, where he went 5-7. Matt Rhule, who was also never an NFL head coach and who didn’t defeat a single ranked opponent while he was at Baylor got a 7 year contract for over $8 million per year.
The source the OP cites also says that Dan Campbell was the Lions first choice. It seems just as likely that the Lions looked at the Matt Rhule contract, knew they would have to make Matt Campbell a similar or better offer and he turned them down. Now that they have hired someone else and there are rumors about the Matt Campbell offer, they are trying to project confidence in their choice by saying he was the first choice all along and they never made Matt Campbell an offer.
It is clear that both sides agree that there were real discussions. It is also clear that those discussions only went so far. Is that because Matt Campbell turned down a strong offer, is it because Matt Campbell asked for more than the Lions were willing to pay, is it because Matt Campbell interviewed and decided he was unlikely to be successful in Detroit, was it because the Lions decided he wasn’t the right guy, it is all speculation, but given the Matt Rhule contract, the ultimately 6 year contract for a pretty inexperienced hire and the Lions long history of ineptitude, I would lean more towards the Matt Campbell version than the Lions version.
Blue in DC. Agree with most of what you wrote but there is no “Matt Campbell” version. Just the usual unnamed source.
The OP also said Matt Campbell was offered full control. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me, given his lack of NFL experience and Sheila Ford Hamp's "collaborative effort" mantra.
That's wildly speculative in its own right.
Good to know the Lions still can’t spot talent.
I'd be willing to bet that 2 yrs from now Matt Campbell will just be another guy. He is probably just the new girl in school, but a new crop is coming in now, and we won't be that enamored after this year.
Well, there's certainly something to him since the last coach to compile a winning record at Iowa State in their tenure before Matt Campbell was Earle Bruce some 45 years ago. Considering that it is not a place where you can just walk in the door and win, let alone even be guaranteed to go at least .500, we shouldn't discount what Campbell has been able to achieve there thus far.
I mean, did you ever watch Iowa State play under the previous coach, Paul Rhoads, or going back a little further, how about under Jim Walden or Dan McCarney? Yeesh.
Isn’t this the same sort of shit we used to say about Harbaugh and Stanford. Rich rod and West Virginia?
Campbell has done a good job all things considered but he’s not taking Michigan anywhere Harbaugh hasn’t taken us.
it’s going to take more than a good coach to fix Michigan football.
Stanford and West Virginia are both far better programs than Iowa State, and are in far better situations than Iowa State. So you’re not really comparing the same things.
Stanford has a lot going for it. Fantastic academic institution, beautiful location, history, and prime recruiting territory. They were down, and Harbaugh brought them back. That’s what was impressive about it. Harbaugh then went on to great success at the NFL level, adding to his mystique.
West Virginia had virtually no competition in the Big East, making their rise fairly easy. What made Rich Rod so attractive was the emergence of the spread offense and his status as one of the forefathers of the concepts. Adding to that the desire from Michigan’s fan base to adopt a more modern offense.
Compare that to Iowa State which isn’t a fantastic academic instituion, located in Ames, Iowa. Has zero history. Poor recruiting grounds. And they’ve always been a bottom feeder in their conference. It’s simply one of the worst jobs in the Power 5. What Matt Campbell has done there is pretty amazing and speaks to his abilities to not only coach a football team, but create a culture.
I will agree with you that it will take more than a good coach to fix Michigan football. But Campbell has proven to be more than just a good coach. Maybe it’s still not enough to overcome administrative issues at Michigan, but his combination of coaching ability and culture building is very impressive. A lot of criticism has been placed on Harbaugh for the culture that surrounds our football program right now.
Where exactly has Harbaugh taken us? Even PJ Fleck has won more games in B1G than Harbaugh has with 11 wins in 2019.
Jim has problems beating ranked teams on the road, can't win as an underdog, can't beat OSU, has trouble beating MSU, ND, PSU or Wisconsin, and hasn't won a bowl game in half a decade. Still no Big Ten championships, no college playoff appearance, nothing of note other than "won 10 games" a few times and averages 9.4 wins a season (not counting the disaster of 2020). In fact Jim has only won a "championship" 3 times in his coaching career, twice at San Diego and once with the 49ers by winning the NFC Championship.
Given the schedule Fleck and Minnesota had when they won 11 games, Harbaugh would have accomplished that as well. Incredibly easy schedule where they had three games that weren’t cakewalks and they went 1-2.
Doubt it, Harbaugh would have blown the bowl game to Auburn
PJ Fleck had the division in hand and lost to the only two teams he couldn’t lose to, including having Wisconsin at home, and blew it. But sure, Harbaugh is the one who would have blown the bowl game. Not like Fleck and Minnesota had a giant choke job that season or anything.
Coming into last year Campbell was 26-25 at ISU. And until the bottom fell out with Paul Rhoads ISU was chugging along at 7-6/6-7 territory for a long time. Similarly, Dan McCarney took over an absolutely trainwreck of a program under Jim Walden and slowly built ISU into a consistent 7-ish win team, including a 9-3 season. Obviously different conference composition and timeframe, but historically Iowa St. looks like NW, Oregon St., Temple, Kentucky, Washington St., etc. - below-average P5 programs but schools capable of having spurts of competitiveness. Campbell is a good coach and maybe he breaks through into that upper-echelon but I also think people are acting like he walked into 1990's ISU when in fact he took over a program that was muddling along but not barren.
Fair point, although the 26-25 record includes Campbell’s 1st year when he went 3-9 with Rhoads’ players
In 12 years as HC, McCarney won 3 (!!!) games against top 25 teams. In 5 years, Campbell has triple that. In 12 years, McCarney only had five seasons with a conference record .500 or better (only one better). Campbell has four seasons with a conference record above .500. McCarney made Iowa St respectable, which was an achievement. Campbell has made them good.
I don’t know how Campbell would do at a place like Michigan. But I don’t think we should act like what he’s done at Iowa St isn’t well beyond their historical performance. He is easily the best coach they’ve ever had.
It amazes me that people still don't understand the hype with Matt Campbell but others have explained it pretty well (boils down to Iowa State historically bad, like current Kansas, now VERY good). But if anybody needs more evidence of how good he is, Ohio State fans (and possibly admin) are keeping him at or near the top of their wish list potentially above Luke Fickell to replace Ryan Day if he leaves. And Ohio State obviously doesn't mess around with terrible coaches
I agree with everything you said, but Earle Bruce is in that discussion as well (best coach in ISU history).
It's easier to win at non-traditional Power 5 programs than it was in the past because resources are more equalized. That being said, if you force ranked every Power 5 program in terms of where it SHOULD be if everything were optimal, ISU is clearly in the bottom 8 and maybe in the bottom 3. That part still hasn't changed.
I'd also add, Campbell has now twice raised the bar at the places he has been: he bettered Toledo's historical output as well. Doing it once can by fluky, doing it twice is much harder.
In the 30 years before Campbell became head coach, Iowa State had 7 years with winning records. They had one year they had a winning percentage of greater than 60%. Campbell has coached there for five years. He has had winning records in all but his first year. He has won over 60% of his games 3 times. Campbell has as many winning seasons (4), in five years of coaching as Dan McCarney had in 12 years of coaching.
I dunno, Dennis Dodd has a pretty good reputation and beat writers are often just mouthpieces for the team who in this case doesn't want to look like their guy wasn't their guy all along. Also, no formal offer doesn't mean they didn't make contact and start informally discussing with his agent what it might take to get him to move. But none of us know, Dodd may have used a dubious source and the Lions beat writer might know better with better team access....Really hard to tell without more evidence either way....
The timing of this report never smelled right to me. Not suprised it was b.s.
Is Dodd the same guy that said Campbell would never coach at Michigan if offered?
Yep, And that was quickly refuted by someone who is very close with Campbell and his family.
I don't know if it is True but Campbell already said he does not think highly of our program and would like to coach at ND or OSU. So, I could careless about the story or about Campbell.
Pretty sure this claim was debunked by someone who knows Campbell personally.
That sounds like a source you would hear about over at 11W.
A sports reporter from Toledo who knows Campbell said that's not true.
Step into the league and get knocked out by Lafleur, Matty!
what the hell did i do?!?!
oh. never mind.
You're going to be so much more sufferable once Jordan Love is running the show.
I don’t think we’re ever really going to know for sure, especially if this statement is coming directly from the Lions.
The Lions have a vested interest in not making themselves look bad (or in their case, any worse than they already have), so the last thing they want is to acknowledge that they offered someone a job and said candidate turned it down to stay at what is essentially a mid-tier Big XII job. That’s not a great look.
Could it be true that the Lions never offered him the job? Absolutely. But I still wouldn’t be surprised if they did.
Considering the fact that he doesn't seem to have ever interviewed with the Lions, and that there are strong ulterior motives to releasing this information when ISU did (to counter negative recruiting) I'd lean a lot stronger toward the original report of an offer being inaccurate.
As I noted above, the story linked by the OP literally states that he did have a first interview. The Lions have pretty strong ulterior motives for releasing their version of what happened to. They certainly don’t want to undermine their new coach by making it clear that he was their second choice.
I'm siding with the Loins on this one. If he had interviewed, and especially if he had been offered what amounts to an unbelievably blockbuster-ish contract -- and for a first time NFL gig to boot -- then it would have come out AT THE TIME. And it didn't.
Nothing significant stays secret.
Schrondinger's Contract Offer.
Splitting hairs. If you consider a formal offer sliding a completed contract across the table that just needs a signature, then ok—that never happened. However, did my contact ask your contact how you would feel about these terms and conditions? Not a “formal offer.”
“Would you take $68.5M for 8 years?”
”Go fuck yourselves”
Very informal, depending on what they were wearing.
"Breaking news, Les Miles will be the next coach of the Michigan Wolverines."
Kirk Herbstreit
mods: can we get some sort of pinned matt campbell thread for the daily drivel? maybe with the ability to change the topic name to whomever becomes the next shiny object after he goes 5-7?
What about when he finishes ranked in the top 15 again with a team that is outside of the top 60 in team talent composite? What happens then?
He hasn’t had a losing record at ISU since his first season. He’s building a program that is improving, sending players to the NFL, and regularly competing with and beating the top teams in the conference. 5-7 isn’t happening for the foreseeable future in Ames.
Campbell is no dummy. He's got a 5th year QB returning and a pretty experienced roster. If he wins at least 9 games, which is likely, he'll have a few good jobs to pick from next winter.
Campbell has a chance this year to prove he can do it again. My gut feeling is that he won't, but if he does you guys who are high on him will be vindicated.
Of course, if he does it again he's probably looking for a better job than Michigan.
Does it again? He’s won between 7 and 9 games for 8 of the 9 seasons he’s coached. He’s not some Johnny-come-lately or some Jimmy-Flash-in-the-Pan. The guy has a track record. I guess what I’m saying is he’s no Tenderfoot Jones. The guy is not a Neophyte Nancy.
He returns the vast majority of his starters on a team that finished in the top 10, played for the conference title, beat Texas, Oregon and Oklahoma. Your gut feeling doesn’t sound very accurate. Might need some pepto or something. He’s a pretty safe bet to “do it again,” which is something he’s built his program to do.
This isn’t coming out of nowhere. He’s been building this program from the ground up and they’re accomplishing things that program has never accomplished before.
I don't know. I wouldn't say he's a safe bet to finish in the top 10 or repeat 2020 results again and I'd be surprised if he did. Sure ISU beat Texas by 3 and Oklahoma by 7, but then they also turned around and lost to Oklahoma by 6. It's certainly possible that those one-score victories will go the other way this year. And they still have to beat Iowa, which Campbell has yet to do.
Also, Rattler was only in his 3rd game as starting QB at Oklahoma, who had just come off a loss to K-State, and Texas was basically led by a lame duck coach. It's likely that both of these teams will be better next year than they were this year.
I'm not trying to dog on Campbell. It's impressive what he's done at ISU. But I'm still skeptical that what he's built is sustainable.
So Campbell loses by 6 to Oklahoma in the conference championship game, meanwhile our guy has lost to OSU by 29 (at home no less) and 27 over the last 2 meetings. And we're arguing about who's more likely to succeed here?
And we're arguing about who's more likely to succeed here?
You must be arguing with yourself. I was making a general comment that I'm skeptical about Campbell's ability to repeat his 2020 record. I didn't mention UM or make a comparison to Harbaugh anywhere in my post.
And it’s almost certain ISU will be better this year as well with all the talent that they return. What he’s built at ISU is absolutely sustainable, especially in this upcoming year.
Meanwhile Texas lost pretty much the only reason they were remotely good last year and you expect them to step ahead of ISU? Weird logic dude.
You can say you’re not trying to dog on Campbell, but you’re reaching pretty hard to downplay his accomplishments and how good his program is and is going to be moving forward. I really don’t get the reluctance from some Michigan fans to acknowledge a great coaching job when they see one.