UM to drop mask/test/vax mandate for most indoor spaces (link)
Following MSU's lead.....
you’re still welcome to stay away.
i'm thinking the change in policy might have something to do with people 'staying away in droves', i.e., it was depressing attendance. i know a few fairly serious donors who told the AD that if the policy didn't change they weren't renewing tickets for anything.
There were some basketball games that I had an inclination to go to, but I didn’t feel like dealing with “all that.” (Waives at Covid stuff, generally). It would have been going from a place where it really does factor into to daily life at all to a place where it still felt front and center which wasn’t appealing. It isn’t that I couldn’t have satisfied admission requirements and masking for limited periods is not a big deal, it was more that I just didn’t want to voluntarily return to that world.
Might also be because covid hospitalization rates across the country are plummeting. Call me crazy, but when the data shows that the health crisis that led to the health based mandates is abating, that might lead to the decision to get rid of the health based mandates.
How dare you provide data. Only opinions matter here.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:47 AM ^
Only my opinion matters here.
Fixed it for you.
Which exactly what people were saying a little less than a year ago from this time - and then the delta wave hit, followed by omicron.
I completely get that people are ready to be "done" with this, but maybe we should wait to see that it actually is "done" before declaring that the safeguards are no longer needed. It could be almost over, or we could just be entering another spring/summer lull.
Everyone has become quite skilled at putting on and taking off masks in the last 2+ years. If they must be dusted off again I think everyone will figure it out. In the interim enjoy getting to know any new coworkers and friends from the last two years now that you can communicate with them as we were designed to do.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:02 AM ^
"...you can communicate with them as we were designed to do"
This was said on the internet, btw.
Not trying to be jackass here but when is it considered "done"? Until no person ever has it? Until only like 10 people have it in Zimbabwe or something? I don't think anyone has yet to use the term "done" but our own CDC, federal and state health agencies are in agreement on the removal of mask mandates. I think pretty much everyone is still encouraging people to wear them.
I'd also wager to say that most people carry a mask or two on their person in most cases when attending large events. The great thing is those who wish to wear masks still have that opportunity. I still do in the grocery store, entering/exit restaurants and in the office when needed. At some point we have to remember that there was life before Covid and embrace that if we're going to follow scientific data to wear masks, we should also follow the same data when its safe to remove masks.
Well said.
At this point:
- Nearly 2/3 of the country have been fully vaccinated
- Over 70% of the country has had at least one shot
- Hospitalization are way down and deaths per day are following
- We don’t have shortages of testing ability or PPE.
- We have a number of effective treatments.
If not now, when is the appropriate time to lift mask mandates?
March 10th, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
I've said elsewhere, I'm fine with the mask mandate being removed now (cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are all dropping, and I'm not a huge fan of masks when it's warm either) but if history is any indicator these metrics will likely come roaring back to some degree in the fall and I just hope that we also follow past precedence as not throw huge fits about appropriate mask usage in those circumstances as well.
I do think I'll always have a mask on me when I take mass transit, got into particularly crowded areas, etc. And that's not really a COVID issue as much as I like not getting/giving seasonal colds when possible.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:26 AM ^
May be when it's considered an endemic if we're going by technical terms, which the United States is thankfully moving in that direction, for now.
https://www.publichealthmdc.com/blog/is-covid-endemic-yet
And so I think for the time-being with no new wave/variant in close site, it's more of just learning to live with it as a manageable 'control' phase where it doesn't distrupt society. And so the virus itself will be around for a while, but once it starts truly integrating into a broad range of infectious diseases and the symptoms that come and we already experience with that (which already is the case for many, but I'm talking as a whole when hospitalization and death numbers are near nonexistent) it may be that finally.
crazy.
that graph is with covid, not because of covid, a far more contagious and far less lethal variant.
i would enjoy a civil discussion about this, off-line so as not to inflame anybody. if you are interested and have a throw away email, that's great. no worries if you decline. you have shared some health concerns here so i do hope you are well, regardless.
On January 26, 2022, the day of peak US deaths during the Omicron variant, 3699 people in the US died of Covid. Yesterday, 1265 people in the US died of Covid. By pretty much any metric, the Omicron variant was a serious health emergency.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
March 10th, 2022 at 10:01 AM ^
to help people understand these numbers, I often tell them US daily deaths from all cancers combined is on order of ~1,500/day. So at yesterday's rates, we could either cure all cancer or cure covid and have. the same "effect". Yes, lots of finer points...
March 10th, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
Well, given we don't track people who die OF Covid, but WITH Covid, a good number of those deaths are in the overlap of the Ven Diagram.
A lot of people like to say that on the Internet, but it’s simply not true. See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/cause-of-death-data-quality.pdf
We humans struggle greatly with the unknown-understatement in the history of humankind. Medically, a "with" vs "because of" discussion is, quite strongly, a non sequitur one. Here, we don't know/nobody knows for sure...on either side. And neither side has an irrefutably cogent point in this regard. (This is like getting into an argument about religion-it's pretty much a lose-lose proposition.)
I don't know why we humans cannot accept not knowing things that we rationally and logically do not have the capacity to understand. Sometimes we are just OMG as a species.
Sure, but the data also shows a health crisis that looks a wee bit cyclical, so as long as people understand that come the fall we may well need to reintroduce the mandate I'm fine with it being relaxed now during a relative downturn.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
Peer institutions across the nation have dropped their mask mandates the past 2-3 weeks. Almost all the Ivies and I'm guessing most of the Big 10 have eliminated mandates for masking in their facilities. I think that, far more than any donor pressure, explains the timing of this announcement. I'm surprised they're maintaining it in classrooms (which, IMO, doesn't make sense if they're dropping it in other facilities).
March 10th, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
It says they're maintaining masking in classrooms, other instructional areas, patient care areas, COVID testing sites, and buses. I think what all those areas have in common is that they're places you don't have a lot of choice whether you use them (short of skipping class, avoiding healthcare, or finding other transportation) and you'll likely spend a lot of time continuously in close contact with people. Dropping the mandate in areas like sporting events and keeping it in others does seem a bit like a half-measure, but at least in the case of sports, it won't really affect your schoolwork or health if you feel uncomfortable in Yost and choose not to go.
March 10th, 2022 at 11:17 AM ^
That would make sense if they were also maintaining it in public areas of the dorms, which it doesn't seem like they are.
I don't think it's a huge deal. I've personally taught in masked classrooms for about 18 months. It's not ideal. Certainly harder to remember people's names, for some reason, and harder to 'read' students as they work through subject matter. But it's totally functional for higher ed, other than the glasses fogging up issue. But it doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of relative vectors of infection. Maybe there's a lot of faculty sentiment to keep them, given the semester's 2/3 complete.
Any disputes arising in this thread should immediately be settled via spelling bee or thumb war. I find they are the only true measures of righteousness.
...With loser given a Bolivian vacation package.
You left out staring contest. Real test of fortitude right there.
Step it up. A spelling bee during a thumb war.
they aren't following MSU's lead entirely as MSU announced dropping mask mandate effective in 3 days from their announcement - which meant spectators didn't have to wear mask for their final home basketball game this past Sunday. UM chose to announce it for a future day - 5 days - which meant fans attending hockey game vs Notre Dame Saturday (3 days from the announcement) still have to wear masks.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
something something science, I guess.
Oceana is at war with eastonia. Oceana has always been at war with eastonia.
But whatever happened to Eastasia and Eurasia?
Or is this a possible sequel, maybe titled '2084' ?
I guess I'll just admit this now...I didn't wear one in the bathrooms at the big house this fall.
This was funny.
You do realize you can be tracked.
We might even put Hillbilly on you to circumvent your trail cam.
Good. Now if the airlines will just follow suit.....
And take all that power away from flight attendants?
March 10th, 2022 at 10:08 AM ^
I’ve had a mixed bag with the flight attendants. My mask typically falls down a bit (ie off my nose) when I fall asleep on a plane. Most have been cool about it.
A flight attendant pulled me aside when I was waiting in line for the bathroom and said that he was not super militant about people and masks, but his co-worker was “so watch out for her!!”
The existing mask mandate for public transportation is set to expire on March 18. No word yet on extending it.
Just got extended to Aril 18th.
March 10th, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
I dunno man, it's kinda fun to watch drunk people all pissed off about having to wear a mask get arrested. Sucks they make your plane late though.
Yep, had it happen at LAX a couple weeks ago. Thankfully they were dumb enough to act out while still on the ground. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I loved how the pilot addressed it--"Sorry for the delay, we had a passenger decide that they preferred to be on another flight".
"Following MSU's lead" is never our goal.
When and if it occurs, overtaking their ass is a must.
March 10th, 2022 at 10:35 AM ^
....as well as beating their ass is a must!
I was hoping to see how a vax mandate thread went without the reply button.
Appears that the county is headed that way. The Senate recently voted to end the emergency restrictions. Same for a lot of EU countries.
This makes sense. Regardless of your views of vaccines, masks, etc., those mandates and restrictions were never intended to last forever. They were intended to mitigate spikes abs prevent overrunning the health system. Based upon the current Covid situation, with cases, and hospitalizations plummeting across the country, and with a variant that is significantly less severe, this makes complete sense.
Yesterday, I believe that I was the only masked person at a 4 game/8 team event out here in the middle of godforsaken Kansas. Empirically, my wife reports that Covid does seem to have dropped significantly. However, it must be noted that testing rates are so low right now that incidence is not actually known-at least here and likely in most places. But it remains critical that we limit the possibilities-in our household.
March 10th, 2022 at 11:04 AM ^
"it must be noted that testing rates are so low right now that incidence is not actually known"
But this means the "unknown incidence" is almost certainly very mild cases. We don't really know the "true incidence" of the common cold either.
I won't say I have zero cynicism about the politics involved in shifting from a "case focused" to a "serious illness/death" focused view of the pandemic, but there's a good point there. With vaccines and treatments available, plus the apparently lower severity of Omicron, total case counts aren't as meaningful as they were in 2020.
March 10th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
This may well be true...and that is why I stated that there are not any irrefutably cogent points to be made here. And while I am often stunned by the decision-making of others my decisions, I am sure, can be just as stunning to others as well. I understand that this complicates the running of a civilized society where each of us, individually, benefit greatly from the gifts and talents of others-even those with whom we have profound disagreements. The ebbs and flows of human history in these regards has been and continues to be quite ugly. Is the human expression of "survival of the fittest" any better than the "savage wild kingdom"??? I used to believe we humans could do better...the older I get the more unsure I am of the realities here. Hope springs eternal-but, oh my...what a struggle!
Username does not check out