UM Athletic School Idea
A friend of mine was proposing this idea in a group chat and I wondered what the board thought?
"Um should create an athletics school or an athletics major. Let the standards for transfers credit, etc be lower. Make the classes tailored to player interest and let it ride. Players that are 5 stars get to focus on what they are good at and take classes about personal finance, etc. players that aren’t pro candidates can get real degrees. Maintains integrity for your other schools and actually benefits the student athletes
People in the music and dance school don’t have the same standards as comp sci majors so why should athletes.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^
I have thought the very same thing for years. Why can’t someone major in athletics just like other forms of entertainment?
January 7th, 2022 at 12:44 PM ^
An athletics major would be a useless degree. Sports teams aren't going to care about it, and neither is any other industry these players might fall back on.
So what's the purpose? If an athlete is just coming to play school for a year or two they won't care if their credits transfer. They can just start out as an academic freshman. Honestly, it could be spun as a plus as you get to retake a class instead of have to retake a class. Shouldn't take up much of your time/effort the second time through.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
There is a school of thought (see Gardner theory of multiple intelligence) that intelligence manifests in many different ways. I think it’s a great idea to embrace this and create a world class academy for geniuses in athletics. The focus can be on maximizing athletic potential, sports sciences, advancement in sports science, etc. careers outside of professional athletics could include coaching development (imagine a world class coaching academy for all sports), sports marketing, journalism and broadcasting and production, sports administration, etc. sports industry is hundreds of billions of dollars and is often filled with incompetent people. Michigan could be the leader in changing that and build upon the brand vs trying to find loopholes into letting underqualified candidates into the school.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^
I don't disagree with the general idea of the school or of movement/sports being a context where we can develop knowledge/skills, but Gardner's theory hasn't been borne out in the research.
January 7th, 2022 at 2:51 PM ^
Sports science is not an easy degree people may think it is. Sure there could be some type of useful program along these lines but if you want a degree they can actually use someday it’s still going to require a lot of classroom work and studying. I think people are thinking come up with something so these kids can play school and years down the road when they have no useful education or skills what are they going to do? I know some people just want to win football games but you really should try to help these kids get an education and have something to fall back on. Hell the NFL stands for Not For Long
January 7th, 2022 at 3:36 PM ^
Isn't a lot of this already available in the school of kinesology? I think what people are talking about is like "Why can't Dax Hill major in practicing and playing football or why couldn't Nick Sheridan major in football theory and offensive strategy/play calling," like a violinist in the music school. Could non-football players say take the offensive strategy/play calling class or would it be reserved for athletes only?
I'm not sure how I feel about it one way or the other. I have no idea what it takes to get into the Music or Art schools at UM. Maybe the academic requirements are less stringent, but I doubt they're to the level of what the University is willing to take for football/basketball. Like I get you have to have the skill to play or do whatever form of art you're interested in, but your grades and test scores have to be up there. I remember years ago when Rivals used to have GPAs and ACT or SAT scores on profiles. Those a 3.2 and a 16 are not getting you into Michigan if you're just applying to LSA or Art or Music.
Bottom line, I don't know how I feel about this idea. I'd rather the university just let them skate by and do whatever they want than this.
January 7th, 2022 at 6:58 PM ^
Could non-football players say take the offensive strategy/play calling class or would it be reserved for athletes only?
I would take that course!
January 7th, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
I only think it would be useless depending on implementation.
I could see this playing out kinda how a Masters of Public Health degree (from what I remember when I was briefly considering that)
- Have different "cores" like general Physiology, some sort of Leadership/Coaching training, finances, etc things that could be beneficial to an athlete
-Given an option for a "certificate" that is half the credits or reduced for those players that leave early
I don't think education is ever a bad thing and while a good amount of players likely would not continue to pursue this path, it gives them an option to more easily move into coaching or maybe spark an interest in being a personal trainer or something?
(speaking out of my experience getting a Certificate in Public Health before deciding to just focus on an MS in Biostatistics)
January 7th, 2022 at 1:32 PM ^
An athletics major would be a useless degree. Sports teams aren't going to care about it, and neither is any other industry these players might fall back on.
First of all, a degree being useless by your definition does not prevent it from existing nor from people wanting to pursue it. There's always academia. See: Ancient Civilizations and Biblical Studies, or History, or many other degree programs. There's also entrepreneurship.
January 7th, 2022 at 2:23 PM ^
Degrees in athletics already exist, though they're not called that. My son is minoring in Health, Exercise, and Sports Studies. It's also a major. Its focus is pretty broad and you can cater it to your own needs, with classes from kinesiology to modalities in therapies to the psychology of motivation. Some use it as a springboard for careers in sports medicine (those who may want to be physical therapists and go on to grad school) or coaching or sport-specific training.
January 7th, 2022 at 6:55 PM ^
We have all kinds of "XXX Studies degrees" that seem useless to me. But that is just my opinion.
The response often is that people that go into those majors can successfully wind up in tangential career fields like teaching and journalism and publishing.
Same thing with athletics. There are tangential career opportunities in coaching and sports administration and so on.
January 7th, 2022 at 3:53 PM ^
I don’t think it’s that useless and it is different from kinesiology. Something like majoring in football or coaching or something like that.
For a nerd like me that did computer science, it would be useless, basically. But why are we playing some charade for a guy like Dax who is clearly coming here to get into the NFL?
Plenty of actors study acting or theater at major universities, why not football?
And if you compare most athletes to engineers, they may not seem too smart. But ask an engineer to read a defense in milliseconds and they would look like idiots too.
In the end, putting some of these athletes into other degree programs is a sham. Why don’t we just call it what it is? They are here to get into their profession just like a EECS kid trying to get a job at Microsoft.
January 7th, 2022 at 7:10 PM ^
Football is a billion dollar business and one of the most widely followed activities in the country. It's a big business and is indeed its own field of study.
You absolutely should be able to major in it, the way you can major in Dance or French and Francophone Studies or Organ or American Culture or Ethnic Studies (all real majors) at Michigan.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
Sounds like you want to turn U-M into Ole Mich.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
Do you want to win or do you want to look down your nose at the rest of the world?
You can't have both
January 7th, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
"Why does everyone view U of M followers as so arrogant?"
January 7th, 2022 at 12:49 PM ^
Because they are jealous.
January 7th, 2022 at 2:38 PM ^
They confuse the word arrogant with accurate.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:41 PM ^
Pretty sure he isn't saying that at all. The school already recognizes that most academic specialties differ in what it takes to graduate. You take different courses, and have very different expectations and requirements. Adding athletics as a major would just be a continuation of recognizing that not all academic tracks are considered equal.
I think you are making the mistake in assuming that majoring in athletics has to be a sham, when in reality it could be as legitimate as any other major. It would depend on the requirements, obviously, but you can't just assume it's shit because it's not a traditional academic route.
Now Ole Miss could offer the same major, and that might turn out to be a sham if it's not set up well and the requirements to graduate are watered down. But thats very different from assuming that an athletic major is inherently bad.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:22 PM ^
This has been discussed on this board previously however I think its a great idea.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
I believe this already exists to a certain extent. Those student-athletes that take control of their education can do so like any other student. However, those student-athletes that aren't at Michigan to "play school" (yes, there are some at Michigan) are given academic direction and support via the student athlete center right by Yost. From what I've been told, these student-athletes are very hands off about their education and just do what they are told (i.e. "show-up at your test at Angell Hall at 9am tomorrow and read this tonight to get prepared")
January 7th, 2022 at 12:43 PM ^
I think the OPs idea is sort of a way for the student-athletes to still get an education rather than being disengaged and doing the bare minimum. With a focus on personal finance, marketing/brand building, digital media, broadcasting, or even football/basketball/sport of choice coaching/strategy for those that are not physically gifted enough for pro sports but want to pursue a career in the sport in other ways. To your point, it's obviously still up to the student-athlete to control their education but this might give them something that they are more inclined to lean into.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:24 PM ^
i would much rather the nfl and nba start meaningful minor leagues, rather than counting on universities to do their player development.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:28 PM ^
That would be the end of college football and basketball.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:45 PM ^
The NBA has a minor league, and you still watch CBB so I don't think so.
Football is a sport where you are past your prime at 25 unless you are the top of the top, so the college route actually makes a lot of sense.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
This is an absurd take - professional minor leagues have never destroyed college sports nor would they ever (look at baseball & hockey, which have had serious minor leagues for many decades, and basketball which has had Europe and now the G-league).
College sports did not become popular because they had the "best" talent - they became popular (and hold that popularity) because people want to cheer for *their school*, regardless of the talent level.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
But that's not what OP is saying. He specifically said he doesn't want colleges and universities to do the development for the pros. College football already IS minor league NFL, especially in 2022. If they created a true minor league path that kids could go to straight out of HS (like already exists in baseball or hockey) which is what OP said he would prefer, it *would* destroy college sports. All of a sudden you'd have severely inferior players in college while the kids who only care about going pro and focusing on their sport (ie: most of the highest-end recruits) go to the minors -- you can't tell me that wouldn't severely hamper the level of interest in CFB or CBB.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
But it would *not* destroy the sport. The numbers/stats may decline, but so what? Do you think it matters any less to the fans if it is UM 4/5* vs OSU4/5* players as opposed to UM walk-ons vs OSU walk-ons? As long as the talent level is comparable the game will be competitive (and people will pay to see it). In fact, it might be even more emotional since the lesser-ranked players are more likely to play the rivalry for the full 4+ years (as opposed to superstar recruits who might only play 1 or 2 years before bolting for NFL).
January 7th, 2022 at 12:26 PM ^
This might of been a new idea 20-30 years ago...
January 7th, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
Surprised people are negging you - this idea has been bandied about for a long time (and there are good reasons why it has never been implemented at any university... even the shameless football/basketball factories).
January 7th, 2022 at 12:26 PM ^
it's called "General Studies"
January 7th, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
"General Studies" allows transfer credits from other schools?
January 7th, 2022 at 12:53 PM ^
The "general studies" major is within LS&A. It is just a major. So whatever the LS&A rules are on transfer of credits would apply.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
General studies still requires that same 60 credits above 300 level as any other LSA program, and some LSA programs are arguably easier than others.
The real reason General Studies is easier: no foreign language requirement. Foreign language is not hard per se, but 4 semesters of progressive skills when you aren't interested is difficult, especially compared to other requirements like R&E where you can almost always find a course that interests you over several semesters.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
'Nate the Newt'---Is your friend a Blue-spotted Salamander?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambystoma_laterale
The species actually is native to Michigan.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
Acutally, I used to be a human but a witch turned me into a Newt. I got better, though.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
I love that you posted this
Especially in a thread about turning U-M into a football factory and not making the athletes go to real school.
You can take the alum out of Michigan but you can't take the Michigan out of the alum. Stay nerdy, my friends!
January 7th, 2022 at 12:36 PM ^
I don't think this is the first, or even the 10th, time this has been brought up.
But I am in favor. Major in "Athletics" with a minor in "Football" and get rid of practice limits etc. You're not limited to the amount of time you can study for a test.
NIL has made this the wild west so lets just go all in.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
Lectures would be breaking down the route trees and blocking schemes of Saturday's opponent...
January 7th, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
Does Meyer, Urban teach the course?
January 7th, 2022 at 2:16 PM ^
You mean, "Footbaw".
January 7th, 2022 at 12:38 PM ^
I'd rather just start a competitive NIL program. If fucking MSU can set one up with Dan Gilbert and Ishbia, why can't we?
January 7th, 2022 at 12:43 PM ^
Can't they just major in some other real easy degree so they at least have something to show at the end of their time here?
A lot of majors really are not that hard, and these athletes have enough time to get them done. I worked 60 hours a week in college, and it was fine.
The transfers is an issue that should be solved for all students.
January 7th, 2022 at 2:00 PM ^
OP forgets that there is a baseline admission threshold for the entire university - individual colleges/schools can have higher standards above those (and most do), but not below them.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
just get rid of the student requirement. let students be students as they chose to and let athletes be athletes and students IF they choose. M football would be a marketing tool for the university formally as opposed to trying to wrap it in an academic shroud as it is currently
January 7th, 2022 at 7:26 PM ^
This is the correct answer.
The University of Michigan benefits tremendously from it's football program in terms of national visibility and fundraising and alumni relations. The students like it, the alums like it, and the greater community likes it.
And it has been this way for 100+ years. Big time college football is part of the very DNA of Michigan.
So forget about the idea that somehow Michigan is going to just disband it or make it a club sport in the name of purity. There are too many university constituents that benefit greatly from it.
It is essentially a Development activity for the good of the university.
You should not have to be a student to participate in that activity. You could be a student, but you don't have to be a student. There are many Development activities that are performed for the benefit of the greater university that are done by non-students, for pay.
Football should just be one of them.
January 7th, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
To be honest I would have loved to have taken a class in Football Theory or some such.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
JUB teaches a U-M athletics history course... but yeah, a high-level football strategy course would be amazing.
January 7th, 2022 at 1:00 PM ^
I don't think it's a bad idea given the current landscape, but I'd much rather the kids with high pro prospects pursue that career in lieu of college. They don't really want to be in school and the schools don't really treat them like students. It's a fiction. Let kids go pro when they become adults. When college athletes are actually students that want to play ball, Michigan will get the top available talent.