Tom Crawford
What is this guy’s deal? Just listened to his comments on the Wolverine.com podcast with Chris Balas. Basically shit all over Juwan Howard as a coaching candidate. Called the “Fab Five Scandal” The biggest scandal in college basketball history. Blamed the “Fab Five” for the “empty arena at Chrisler in the early 2000’s. To his credit, Balas did try to temper the comments.
I can’t speak for anybody else, but the Fab Five was the most exciting time in Michigan sports, period. Not basketball, any sport. I wouldn’t trade it for anything and I certainly don’t blame 19 year old kids who played years earlier for attendance issues at Chrisler. Blame Mary Sue Coleman and Bill Martin for how they handled the situation and Brian Ellerbe / Tommy Amaker for how they coached the team.
Let’s celebrate bringing Juwan back, let’s have the Fab Five reunion and and put the banners back up (they should have never come down!). Tom Crawford, take that bullshit back to your EL terrestrial radio show where they want to hear it.
Ok cool, Hook em
Haters going to hate...
Okay.
You may be listening to too much radio too early in the morning. Most programming is gauged to get people riled and sell stuff. Take it all with a grain of salt, or better--find a couple of thoughtful commentarists you like, follow them, and ignore the others!
"Oh, that bastard! I'm buying a Ford and some Bush's Baked Beans! BASTARD!!!"
You laugh, but advertising media are designed to unsettle humanity in ways that drive needless purchases.
Enjoy the beans!
Cooked a can of Bush’s on a grate over a fire while camping next to Kenai Fjord. That’s the only way to have beans.
/CSB /Isleptoutsidesonobodysuffered
I demand a separate thread about this bean eating!
more beans mr. taggart?
Whew! I think you've had enough already!
So this entire thread is unfolding just how they wanted it to? What about free will? What happened to my free will?
Ahh. There it is. I am not being detained by ICE. I am a free American, born and raised. At least I've got that going for me.
Who cares. Wait till they find out he had a sexual assault allegation. This is modern media, being obnoxious gets you attention that you can eventually monetize.
I got curious about that, and it looks like he eventually got a 100,000 settlement from the original complainant for harm to his reputation. But that is going to get thrashed through, you are probably right. And I am hope the committee looked at it carefully.
My first thought was: Who the fuck is Tom Crawford?
Also my second thought.
You really should add that a judge found that the woman had lied and intentionally defamed Juwan. He won a judgement of $100,000 because of her false allegations.
I can't imagine how this is a story.
It isn't a story. To the media's credit, no one has brought it up yet since it's really a non-issue, the judge found that the woman had lied to intentionally defame him. I had only heard about it from F5-ing "Juwan" on Twitter, and saw one random dude who brought it up (a Michigan alum, living in DC, curiously). The responses were universally "nobody is talking about it because there is nothing there."
If there's anything that's going to be unbearably awful about the Juwan hire, it's having to wade through endless Fab Five arguments for years on end.
I for one think Crawford is right here. Were the Fab Five exciting? Yes. But was the scandal bad? Yes. Did it involve a very large amount of money, the worst in the history of the NCAA until recent years? Yes. And did Michigan pay for it in part with an empty Crisler for a good chunk of the 2000s? Firsthand experience says... Yes. Juwan was never implicated, so I'm not sure what it has to do with his coaching ability, but the rest of it is true.
So what's your gripe exactly?
Well, the gripe is that those points were long in the past have little to do with who Michigan basketball is today and how Howard will coach the team going forward.
Lame take. Do better
Agree 100%. I don't want Michigan to hire Juwan Howard so we can circle-jerk to 1993 highlight reels. I don't care about Fab 5 reunions. I want them to hire Juwan because he's a good coach and will maintain the program's excellence. We should be hiring Howard looking forward, not backward.
Also: "Crisler", dude. Come on.
Chrisler, couzin of Fratz Crasler.
"If there's anything that's going to be unbearably awful about the Juwan hire, it's having to wade through endless Fab Five arguments for years on end."
And then... immediately begins a Fab Five argument.
If OSU fans can look past all of Urban's atrocities, including the enabling of an abuser, then we can sure as hell be ok with a guy who did absolutely nothing wrong nor even unethical and simply played on the same team as a guy who accepted money.
Thank you, well said! Accepted money like..what...40-50% of today's top players are doing in someway today? (not saying I approve of the current system) But because of the current state of affairs I'm so over that story line...if there is ever a point where the NCAA punishes ANY/EVERY program (Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc) for crooked shit then please feel free to continue that Fab 5 scandal talk track. Seeing as the NCAA is a glorified daycare and that will never happen....onward.
Hang the banners
The thing is, the money wasn't even an incentive for him to go to Michigan. It was an incentive for him to return the favor when he went pro. So it's nothing like your typical bagman cheating to get blue chips to go to his favorite team.
If you want to go into the "history" of the NCAA, take a look at UK basketball. They got the death penalty back in the 1950s for paying players, playing ineligible guys and point shaving. Then they got probation again under Eddie Sutton. Don't forget about the SMU and Miami football scandals of the 1980s.
Also, Rupp Arena was not empty is because UK hired Rick Pitino when they had the chance and we did not. Our coaching hires were awful because we didn't break out the piggy bank.
Here's my gripe. Quit asking and answering your own questions.
Part of me wants to see you attempt to explain why the Fab 5 is a far worse scandal than what happened with SMU football.
The worst in NCAA history to that point is factually wrong. SMU was significantly worse in the time and in retrospect. Kentucky had an entire year blown away because of point shaving in the 1950s, and this was during Rupp's big run.
Nobody is saying th Fab Five wasn't a major event, but it was neither the first nor the last. And at this point it almost feels quiant; a bag man gave some guys money. Like, LSU did it in broad daylight and nobody seems to give a shit.
I'm not going to argue with you other than to say read that sentence again. It was the worst financial scandal in the history of the NCAA up to that point. As in money. Not the worst scandal generally.
No, it wasn't. Not even close. Unless you don't think that paying players to shave points on behalf of mobbed-up gamblers is a financial crime. Just take the L. This is embarrassing.
Worst scandal in NCAA history? Do you remember when one Baylor basketball player killed a teammate and the coach tried to cover the impermissible benefits by fabricating a story that the victim was a drug dealer?
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet all week.
Ok good someone else brought it up already. Good lord.
The Fab Five wouldn’t even make the top 3 scandals in the B1G East over the last decade.
The scandal was small potatoes compared to what's going on all the time and bigger scandals before and after. The punishment, not the scandal, was really bad - and much of it was self-inflicted. The North Carolina scandal with blatant academic fraud and the Louisville scandal with paid hookers were far worse and involved members of the basketball staff (unlike Michigan) yet received far less punishment. If punishment was proportionate, these other programs should have been completely suspended for a number of years.
It was not even close to being the worst scandal in NCAA history. And from today's perspective, the NCAA may be the biggest villain.
By all accounts, Juwan Howard is a great guy, a really great guy. He doesn't deserve to be slimed by this bs and any contrary opinion should be treated with skepticism without strong evidence.
Large sums of money? Look at all the blue collar guys in college basketball making money on the side and doesn't get caught because they somehow make it legal. GTFO
You help to illustrate exactly what he is complaining about from Crawford. It seems that Michigan has many fans that want Duke-level results with Beilein-level cleanliness. (See Also the "SMUG" episode of South Park) The need to feel morally superior to the opposition is nearly as important as on-field results.
Yes this is the ideal, but hiring Howard does not besmirch the program....
#1 MBB players have been getting $$ for a LONG time -- I lived in the same hall in WQ as Rumeal and Terry M. in the late 80's and they were never hurting for spending cash. This was sport-wide issue during that period.
#2 The Post-Fab five scandal was a big escalation, but it only directly involved 1 specific Fab Fiver iirc and several players after that. Howard has never been implicated. Also of note - players at MSU and others schools were involved in the same scandal. M got nailed essentially because they gave the guy season tix.
#3 IF Michigan had gone the UNC/OSU/stonewall route they probably would have gotten a wrist slap, maybe a show cause on an assistant coach, and all would have been forgotten by now. The fact that we didn't is an example of why Michigan IS better (or dumber..)
SO yes - to those out there that care - you might have to deal with some of the Sparties in your life going "hur Hur Hur.. cheaters!" for a while, but these are probably the same group that see cheating and payoffs behind every sleepover, staff hire, or Africa trip by Harbaugh and the FB program already.
Worst scandal, big on the hyperbole much? Even in 2012, which excludes any recent scandals, it barely made the top 10. Maybe this list will refresh your memory. For the record, there was never any finding that Howard had any impermissible benefits through Martin. The only allegation, which was unproven, is that he took $300 to play in a summer tournament with other UM players. Google Juwan Howard Philanthropy if you want to get a better idea of his character.
yet, rob pelinka is running the LA Lakers!! how is that possible? he was on the Fab 5 team. oh but he wasn't implicated in anything. well, newsflash, neither was howard.
What is the scandal? Webber took a loan from Ed Martin who he knows since middle school that coaches had no knowledge of. This is nothing compared with Sandusky and Nassar.
Worst scandal of the NCAA until recent years? OMG this is so wrong. In addition to the examples already cited like the BC (1961) and CCNY (1951) gambling/point shaving scandals, add a bunch more: the Illini slush fund scandal (1962-66), the NCAA gambling scandal in 1961 that involved over 20 teams and resulted in 37! students arrested and Connie Hawkins kicked out of school. There was also Lobogate which was an academic cheating scandal at New Mexico in 1979. Not wanting to be left out New Mexico State had their own academic cheating scandal in 1995. William and Mary got caught altering transcripts in 1951. Such a bad take.
How come I heard this in my head while reading your post?
Bill, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for up votes, I can tell you I don't have any... but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you change the title now, that will be the end of it - I will not look for you, I will not pursue you... but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you... and I will ban you.
Because StephenRKass is one bad Mofo! That’s right, I’m talkin about Kass!
It was John Borton who tactfully disagreed with him, not balas. But otherwise, yes, kind of a pathetic take by Crawford who appears to harbor some bitterness to the success and fame of the fab five.
I don't get all the Tommy Amaker blame on this board. Maybe I'm missing something. I know he wasn't a great coach, but I don't think he was a bad coach. Just average. Why do people seem to hate him so much?
Because just average doesn’t get you a lot of love from this fan base.
But it shouldn't get you the reputation as a program ruiner, which seems to follow Amaker.