November 22nd, 2015 at 6:58 PM ^
Yeah......De'Veon Smith saying he learned how to pass block this year already made him look bad enough.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:18 PM ^
Yeah. That damn Fred Jackson never taught Mike Hart to pass blocker, neither! That guy sucked!
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:57 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:28 PM ^
That's a cop-out of an argument. Just because a player is pretty good from the beginning of his career doesn't mean that he wasn't coached well during his career. Mario Manningham was good for his entire time here. Does Erik Campbell not get any credit for coaching him?
November 22nd, 2015 at 9:00 PM ^
.Devin Gardner arrived on campus a damn good quarterback, and got progressively worse from 2013 on.
Sometimes being a good coach means knowing when *not* to overcoach.
November 23rd, 2015 at 7:54 AM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 10:04 PM ^
He was Mike Hart, but faster.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:16 PM ^
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November 22nd, 2015 at 8:24 PM ^
At pass blocking? Wasn't Vincent Smith everyone's favorite pass blocker? Who taught him how to pass block? Fred Jackson didn't forget how to teach players to pass block.
November 22nd, 2015 at 10:29 PM ^
TBH Vincent Smith had an advantage. pretty easy to cut block when you are 4 foot 3...
/s
November 22nd, 2015 at 11:15 PM ^
When did Michigan have a veteran experienced OL last -- 2011.
Coincidence?
November 23rd, 2015 at 7:45 AM ^
This could also explain why Gardner regressed, instead of "the coaches made him regress!".......
The offense sputtered under Hoke, we get it. However, on the same token, if it weren't for Hoke's dogged recruiting of defensive linemen, we wouldn't have had the depth at the position we do, and we would have been flat f*cked the past few weeks. Instead, both good depth, good players, and good coaching let to generally good performances, IU excepted. All for criticizing Hoke and Co on the offensive side of the ball, but if you're going to do that, you damn well better give him credit for what he did well.
November 23rd, 2015 at 8:19 AM ^
Give Hoke credit?!?! Are you stupid or just ignorant? Hoke did nothing besides regress this program/ He was a worthless, garbage coach who should be appologizing to the Michigan alums. He screwed this program because he is a crap coach who has no idea how to manage a D-I program. He's still making millions off of Michigan and I haven't heard him say sorry yet. He set the program back nearly a decade and should be licking Harbaugh's jockstrap like the little bitch he is.
November 23rd, 2015 at 8:25 AM ^
Speaking of stupid/ignorant, how often have you heard coaches/employees apologizing for a job that was poorly done?
November 23rd, 2015 at 9:50 AM ^
Gardner's biggest issue is that every play was a designed QB sack and his leading blocker(His ribs), couldn't hold out.
November 24th, 2015 at 10:28 AM ^
But...that's not accurate. Michigan was just as veteran in 2013 as they were in 2011. And in 2012, they were even more so when the line consisted of redshirt junior Taylor Lewan, fifth year Ricky Barnum, fifth year Elliott Mealer, fifth year Patrick Omameh, and redshirt junior Michael Schofield.
So...you're wrong.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:19 PM ^
Experience has nothing to do with an ability or inability to communicate effectively.
It was clear guys tuned Jackson out...it has nothing to do with experience. He was completely ineffective in his outdated coaching techniques and he was not reaching the players. There was no improvement and it's clear from the comments of today's players.
That's why they best coaches know how to adapt with the times and keep their message, relevant, fresh, and impactful.
You can only live off your resume for so long. Today's youth doesn't give a shit that Fred Jackson coached Tyrone Wheatley or Chris Howard or Mike Hart.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:25 PM ^
So he was able to communicate with a tiny kid from The Muck in Florida, but he couldn't teach a 225 lb. kid from Warren, Ohio? That's an interesting theory.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:36 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
Oh, okay... So just like Hart above, Jackson gets no credit. So when people are good, it's because of the player. And when they're not good, it's because of the coach.
P.S. Justice Hayes developed into our best pass blocker. He was also the smallest of the running backs. But I guess Justice Hayes was Justice Hayes from when he got to Ann Arbor, too.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:48 PM ^
He just did.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:52 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 9:00 PM ^
a) You asked for an answer. I gave you one.
b) Your response is kind of the point. Running back is a NATURAL position. Guys are often good as freshmen, and they're often good as rookies in the NFL (hell, this thread is about a ROOKIE in the NFL who's contributing). It turned out that Justice Hayes transferred to a worse program and still ended up as a third-stringer there. So is it that Fred Jackson didn't teach him how to be a good running back? Or is it that Hayes just wasn't very talented?
As I mentioned above, Rawls never did anything special at Michigan. Sometimes it takes a change of scenery for people to be successful. Kurt Warner was a great NFL quarterback, but not until after he hit some bumps in the road. Pete Carroll didn't do anything great in coaching until he ended up at USC and then in Seattle.
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:52 PM ^
Well, I certainly thought Derrick Green was better in 2014 than he was in 2013. And as I mentioned above, Justice Hayes went from not playing at all to being our best pass blocker in 2014. Chris Perry got into the conversation for the Heisman eventually. Carlos Brown didn't do jack squat when he first arrived, and he averaged 5.9 yards/carry by the time he was a senior.
November 22nd, 2015 at 11:54 PM ^
was still just an ok pass blocker, you're not exactly setting the bar very high here. People are exaggerating how bad Jackson was at the end but I think it's pretty clear he was pretty bad. Also think it's its hilarious you want to give him credit for developing Hart in the month he was on campus before the season. He couldn't even Identify Hart as the best back, he had Underwood and Jackson ahead of him. Underwood got hurt and he still started Jerome Jackson ahead of Hart. It wasn't until Jackson was averaging like 1 yard a carry through a ame and a half that Hart became the guy. I think your boy Mike Cox and Thomas Rawls are enough proof of what kind of coach Jackson was at the end.
November 23rd, 2015 at 8:22 AM ^
Did he get better? That was the question.
Also, *I* think it's kind of funny that people say "Hart was who he was when he got here" but then say "Jackson was such an idiot that it took him a few weeks to put Hart on the field."
So...which is it? Was he the best RB from the moment he stepped on campus? Or did he have some things to work on that perhaps he improved from August 1 until a few weeks into the season?
I'm assuming you didn't attend those practices in 2004, so you probably have no clue whether Hart was ready to play. Maybe Underwood and Jackson were the better pass protectors and thus got the majority of the snaps. Maybe it took Hart a few weeks to grasp the concepts.
Regardless, I think it's unfair to say that coaches don't have anything to do with players who are good from the beginning of their careers.
November 23rd, 2015 at 10:19 AM ^
Quite possibly, yes.
It's as though you've never spent time in a classroom and seen a teacher who could teach one child well, but completely fail at teaching another.
Some teachers are bad - they don't teach anyone well.
Some teachers are spectacular - they have enough techniques and knowledge they can get through to anyone.
Most teachers are in the middle - they get through and teach well to some kids, they don't have the techniques to teach others... and some teachers get worse with this over time, because communicating with youth changes over time.
November 22nd, 2015 at 9:36 PM ^
but had to log in just to point out two hilariously ironic points:
1) Fred Jackson taught Ty Wheatley
2) Ty Wheatley now has two 5-star recruits who can't even see the field.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:00 PM ^
Can we just stop the gratuitous Hoke-bashing?? We're 9-2 and Jim Harbaugh is our coach. Let's move on.
How about; "Good for Thomas Rawls."
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:03 PM ^
^^^^ That. Wish we could multi-upvote for this post.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:05 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:22 PM ^
I got you Grendal. +1
November 22nd, 2015 at 9:10 PM ^
Gee thanks guys. Obviously A LOT of us feel this way. It's almost like no one here has ever failed at anything before.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:12 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:23 PM ^
Honestly, he looked slow at Michigan. Maybe he finally started taking training and nutrition seriously. Playing RB is such a natural skill. He did nothing special in three years at Michigan, bad blocking or not.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:28 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:58 PM ^
True, but Hoke's track record of player development doesn't do him any favors in this regard.
November 22nd, 2015 at 9:32 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:27 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:36 PM ^
November 23rd, 2015 at 8:33 AM ^
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November 23rd, 2015 at 8:36 AM ^
He's talking about Rodriguez, who recruited Denard, Tate, and Devin.
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:28 PM ^
Agreed. What I find most annoying is that when a Hoke-era player succeeds somewhere, people say that Hoke sucks because he didn't get the most out of him. When a Hoke-era player doesn't succeed somewhere, people say that Hoke sucks because he didn't develop the guy properly or never should have recruited him. The whole thing is stupid.
November 22nd, 2015 at 11:20 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:30 PM ^
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November 22nd, 2015 at 8:38 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:17 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 7:59 PM ^
November 22nd, 2015 at 8:53 PM ^
...we wouldn't have Harbaugh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯