Students or parents of students: Is it worth it to go back in the fall if it's e-learning?
My son is a junior. His school is currently planning to return in the fall but yesterday, I told him to prepare himself for an about face, and e-learning. He said he didn't think a semester, or an entire year, of e-learning was worth the cost of full tuition, and was thinking about taking the year off if that happens. He has the additional dilemma of being a college athlete, but that's a different discussion for another time. I'm wondering if anyone here has had this discussion with their kids, or if you're a student, are you planning on returning and paying full tuition if it's all online?
would not pay full tuition if we knew ahead of time that the semester would be on-line. no way, no how. if anything, let junior take some local community college courses and get a job.
a few of our older kids may be in that dilemma, and that includes 2 football players. we'll see.
I agree. On the opposite end, I had a child in pre-k 3, not cheap instruction. When the school was in session, the curriculum has heavy ABCs, number, manners, kindness, etc. So some social EQ training and some basic colors for a growing IQ. My other two are in older grades. When the quarantine hit, it was very difficult to manage two careers plus two children with homework, zoom meeting ,etc. There was absolutely no value in the pre-k 3 part. If schools are canceled at our school, my youngest will simply skip pre-k 4. I can't do that with the older two. As parents, school closings causes a huge mess.
Go blue and be safe out there.
When it comes to educational decisions like this, all I can say is that, when I was 8 years old, my 3rd grade teacher told me that she totally hated my guts and that I was completely worthless as a human being who was an utter waste of time and space; doing nothing but taking away precious resources from those who were trying to accomplish something with their lives.
Well, guess what Mrs. Reichenbacher? Fuck you. I wish that you could see me now and the person I’ve become and I hope you die alone and angry.....Wait. What was the question again?
Turns out Mrs. Reichenbacher was spot on
Naw, she actually never said anything like that. She was just a grouch who flew off the handle for no reason sometimes. Although, to be fair, other times I was being a little shit in class who deserved a good ass chewing.
Even if she had said it, she’d be wrong. IRL I have a job that pays well, a happy 17 year marriage to a wonderful woman, two great kids who are almost straight A students and am within a few years of paying off the mortgage on my house
It’s dumbfucks like you who get so wound up and butthurt by my anti Trump/GOP, and pro science/COVID posts, that you have to convince yourself I must be the ultimate loser; because it’s the only defense mechanism you have from the truth of what I’m saying.
That’s cool though. Believe what you want. Doesn’t change reality.
Cute response. You can’t even comprehend why you’re an insufferable asshole and that perhaps politics aren’t the basis for disliking your posts. I am a registered Democrat, so your juvenile insults don’t really land in this case. Keep up the small minded worldview, though.
you have children? seriously? i can only hope that you are 180 degrees different at home than you are here; that your alter ego gets out here and takes every possible frustration and foulness out on all your co-mgobloggers, while at home you are a calm, wise, gracious soul.
So she was an observant lady, then.
I kid, I kid.
Little did she know you would become “Special Agent Utah, King of the COVID Threads”.
i kid, kinda.
Meh, I’ve been called far worse.
Damn. Your teacher really knew her shit...
I never knew my grandmother had taught 3rd grade.
The parchment will still say The University of Michigan.
There won't be an asterisk.
My daughter is graduating next spring come hell or high water.
At the rate the country is going, it’ll be both.
I am pretty sure the OP understands that. I think he or she is questioning paying the same tuition for online studies vs. in class studies. Almost sounds like the student might be footing the expenses themselves as well.
Personally, if I was in this situation, I'd take a semester off. If I'm going to college and paying the bills, give me what I am paying for.
My son doesn't go to Michigan; he goes to a small private school, so tuition is high. He pays for some of it himself. He plays baseball, which complicates things, although who knows if there will even be a season if they go to e-learning in the fall. So much could be in limbo if they backtrack. On the other hand, I think it's hard to jump off the treadmill and then get back on later, particularly with the baseball.
If I was paying OOS tuition I'd agree. But she wants to get it done and on to grad school asap. I think that enrollment may be a bit depressed this year and next, so she's applying to a couple of "reach" schools she wouldn't have otherwise.
Smart plan...if she's this far along in her UG career, better to get it done and then use time off planning the next steps. Hope you both stay safe and healthy!
Our son will be a sophomore at Michigan. We are in-state so it softens the tuition blow. We also have an apartment lease that my attorney tells me is unbreakable. So even if it's online he's off to Ann Arbor. He's not in to partying so not concerned about him being in crowds. He is independent but shy so it's better for him developmentally to be up in Ann Arbor. That being said I would not pay out of state tuition for online learning.
"He's not into partying..."
Wait until that first Natty Light beer bong hits his lips during welcome week. The tiger's comin' out of the cage...
Michigan could pull off full time e-learning for undergrad for many majors that don't require hands on/lab work... at least the curriculum learning portion, if they had years. It takes immense time and planning to build a curriculum and interactive courses that engaged and facilitate collaboration (but not cheating) in a closed environment.
Still, at least half of the benefit of college is learning how to proactively manage/build relationships as well as learning about yourself and what matters to you. Any institution that tells you there won't be a quality difference in a rushed, last minute complete e-learning semester is kidding you.
I take that back. There's probably not that much difference between an online msu/osu class and an in-person msu/osu class.
It depends on what you value most. If it’s getting the degree as expeditiously as possible, take classes. If it’s the full college experience, maybe pump the brakes. I do think a community college option is viable to save some money while advancing the ball forward...but if we go backwards and are on shutdown again, I’d want to take some classes.
If it were me I'd keep going, but then again I have 3 degrees...clearly no one told me soon enough to stop. Good thing being a teacher pays off my remaining debt after 10 years of service.
Good thing being a teacher pays off my remaining debt after 10 years of service.
I wouldn't count on this.
I doubt the PSLF program will ever pay out. I hope you’re right. I owe U-M more than I owe on my remaining principal on my mortgage.
My kids are too young but if I was in your situation I’d would be damn certain that my kids could take a year off or go “local” for a year before choosing that option.
My neighbors with college bound freshman to be have the same decision and have been flat out told that they cannot defer their enrollment, which logically makes sense but I also get not wanting to spend $40k for a year of online learning.
My daughter did defer her enrollment for freshman year. In her case the school she is attending has not announced full e-learning but she decided it still wasn’t worth it. She’s got a job babysitting and is happy with her decision. For an incoming freshman there are At least two options. The first is deferring, the second is just reapplying next year.
in her case defer made sense because she gets the same academic scholarship money and enrollment in the honors college. The downside is that generally schools do bot let you take coursework that counts towards a degree during a deferral year.
Reapplying next year can make sense if there is no merit scholarship money involved and if you are confident you can get into the same program next year. This route would allow you to get some cheaper community college credits. For many students going to instate public schools this could be a good option as transferring credits from an in-state community college is often more seamless.
She deferred back in May because she wanted to be near the front of the line. As your neighbor has learned, schools have no obligation to accept a deferral request and she thought she’d be better off at the front of the line. While they encouraged her to reconsider and at least wait til they had more info re: fall semester, they honored the request with little problem.
She got significant advice and encouragement from her two cousins who are both currently at Michigan. They are instate students and have both elected to return.
I've thought about this (I teacher HS SRs every year). Fr should probably defer till Jan - most schools will honor that. Take classes at a local CC so you're not behind for graduating.
The down side to a gap year is 4 years down the road there will be 10% fewer grads in '24 so an easier market to get into. The year after, 10% more.
As to the OPs issue, kids in the middle I'd say push thru as best you can. Not really much you can do IMO
What happens this fall probably won't look like the emergency thrown together nonsense of the spring. At least from some anecdotal stuff I've seen from college profs. But it's going to depend on the instructor.
Same deal for public K12 schools, though a lot of that is going to be when admins tell teachers what the plan is so we have some time to actually figure things out. Which mine hasn't yet. :(
I’m going to be a incoming in state freshman at uofm this fall and at this point I’m going to go as I don’t really know any better viable options. I have a lot of friends who’ve had campuses closed or their parents are making them stay home cause of going out of state and such high prices but they are all at a utter loss on what to do beyond taking classes online at home through our local community college which also sucks. Basically anyone whose family can swing the tuition is sending their kids cause no better options are available with everything else still closed down.
If ever there was a good year for a "gap," it's this one. Let higher education work out the kinks and maybe get back to it next year.
Easy for me to say, as I don't have any family members who'd need to make a judgment call. A gap year would need to make sense on multiple levels ($, career path, etc.).
I know at least two people whose kids are planning to sit out a year. In both cases they have research jobs lined up at other universities where they have family / friends (and convenient lodging). One's a sophomore this year and the other is a junior.
Except this gap year will have high unemployment and limited travel options because of the covid. Defeats the purpose if you ask me.
I only have younger kids, but talking to parents with college-aged kids the general feeling is that if e-learning is only for the first semester then paying full freight tuition is acceptable since the kids will still get an on-campus education for the second semester. Now, that's probably wildly optimistic; even if a vaccine is available by then it'll still take some time for everyone to actually get it (and for us to determine its overall effectiveness at the society level). But I think schools will try their best to get people into classrooms whenever possible, and as others have noted the name of the degree will still be the same and weighing that against possible alternatives (gap year, community college, etc.) is worth a discussion.
Yes. Get the degree. He can drive across the country, explore and work from anywhere while he does it. Will make for an interesting year.
If you have extra money to travel the country, can you spot me some? Btw, not a real good time to travel the country.
He's a kid. Get a tent or sleep in his car and he can take his laptop. And gas is cheap. I'm not suggesting he go to bars in major cities. Go get a national parks pass, explore the country and bring some hiking boots.
My daughter is a freshman and it makes sense for her to enroll. No room and board costs for one.
If she was a senior, I’d recommend taking a year off if possible. Graduating into a shitty economy is statistically the worst possible outcome of a college degree.
For a junior I would consider taking a gap year or whatever you want to call it. But that year should be constructive. What the hell do you do with a year off where there are no jobs and no country will accept US residents because we have stupid leadership? So I’m on the fence between going to school and being productive this year and graduating into a good economy in 2022 or possibly doing nothing.
Graduating into a shitty economy is statistically the worst possible outcome of a college degree.
Cries in '09
The best strategy here is to go back to grad school. I did this and a year later the job market was completely flipped.
Depends if he wants to put his life on hold for a year, ultimately. What would he do instead? If he's got something else worthwhile, sure, maybe a pause makes sense, but otherwise, what's the point? I get the concern about not wanting to learn online, but it's very possible that much more of the professional world will be moving online permanently because of this, so a year of online school could help him be more native in that environment.
Uhh...yeah it is worth it. If they’re providing course work, why not take advantage and earn credits toward your degree. Now as far as tuition, I think it definitely should be reduced if students are not on campus this fall.
College isn’t a great deal. It is very expensive for what you get. What do you get?
- knowledge, both general and in your field of study
- networking, with both professors and classmates
- an opportunity to experience the next phase of life (some do it as adult children living at home, some in a mix of dorm and off campus experiences away at college)
- a diploma, which is an indication from the university that you have met their standards and were able to navigate the system
I think every student has to evaluate the cost and benefits of those components. It is hard calculus for an adult, let alone a child which is why parental help and guidance is so critical.
My daughter will be an in-state Michigan sophomore in the art school. Part of her experience is the Michigan Marching Band, which may not happen this year; part of her experience is studio art classes, which may not happen this year. As of right now, we are planning for her to be in A2 at her rental house doing some combination of in person and remote learning. We’ll see how it unfolds.
Depending upon how you view it, college in general isn't worth it. You can get a very good job with short technical training. That being said, what's the difference between in person and on line education? It's not like it says how you got your training on your diploma.
I would be hesitant to pay full tuition for a lesser product, BUT we don't know how long this might last. I think to myself, "does your calculus change if Covid were to continue for say, 5 more years?"
The college tuition scam is something that the mob would have created if they ran colleges. Federal funding has corrupted them. Universities need to re-examine themselves. There is one bright example of a school that takes no federal funding. Hillsdale. They do it right. And more importantly, they aren't indoctrinating kids to hate the United States of America.
This whole "indoctrinating" thing has to stop. None of us who attended Michigan, or any other mainstream university in the US, has been indoctrinated into anything. We all love our country. This kind of thinking is just nonsense, and you should feel badly about perpetuating it, especially here.
I think what people like this mean when they flippantly say "indoctrinating kids to hate the US" is that there is no room for a critical eye towards some of the things the US has done over the years.
Of course, many (like myself) disagree: an honest, critical eye towards history is a better way to show love of country, because it means we can learn from the past and be better in the future. But it's not always easy to stomach, that part I can understand.
"Indoctrination" is an inflammatory word that suggests brainwashing. It is a wildly inaccurate term when applied to Michigan. When I was in school in the 80's, I was a Reagan supporter. I had no issues. I was not run out of town. I had spirited political conversations that were enlightening and enriching. Michigan was every bit as "liberal" back then as it is now. This person's intractability shows where the problems lie, and it isn't in the universities.
Your experience in the '80s very nearly matches mine. However in 2013-14 my daughter was a student at U of M and her experience was vastly different. She's not at all political but she does have her opinions on various topics. She found that she was terrified to join in discussions surrounding political or cultural issues because there was a strong consensus on what the right views were, and if anyone disagreed they would be strongly reproached, not just by other students but also in class by professors or in comments on her papers. She found the place oppressive and humorless, and frankly I agreed with her.
There was a bulletin board in her dorm--you know, the kind where there would be flyers from tutors, concert posters, job postings, stupid cartoons--only this was completely dedicated to a polished university-sponsored treatise on what kinds of Halloween costumes could or could not be worn due to issues of cultural appropriation.
In addition she had some learning challenges that required leniency and understanding from her professors and administrators. They said all the right things but when it came down to treating her like an actual person and not a number, they completely dropped the ball. In fact the dean of the art school outright tried to run her out of the program and just in general treated her like a middle school student. My daughter came to hate the place and eventually dropped out and went to a much more sane state university that she loves. I fully supported her decision and was extremely disappointed in my alma mater. It's still a great school but it's nothing like the place I attended and not nearly as fun.