The Snowflake Thread: Offensive Line (Specific OL Issues)

Submitted by Gulogulo37 on

"There are several teams across the country who are operating with extremely young O-linemen. And they all seem to be able to run the ball."

Comments like these have been quite common in response to those posters who think there isn't anything the coaches can do given our line. However, I've yet to see anyone actually name one of these supposed teams. So, honestly, which teams have 3 (or more) starters on their O-line that are as young and inexperienced as ours but actually field good offenses? I honestly want to know if these teams actually exist.

MOD EDIT: The original title was "Which teams have competent O-lines that are young and inexperienced?", but as this might become a center point of discussion, this will be repurposed as a separate Snowflake Thread. Hopefully, the OP does not mind - LSA

OP EDIT: I specifically made this thread about other team's young O-lines because just making a thread about OL issues would likely lead to complaints about Borges or the players or whatever has been said a million times already, although those complaints are rife here as well unsurprisingly. However, I don't mind because it doesn't seem like anyone has an answer except UCLA, and theirs doesn't appear to be better than ours.

TXmaizeNblue

November 2nd, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^

A&M has a freshman right guard and sophomore center, and they threw up 40+ on Bama. And they have been consistently moving the ball against the SEC.  Which is head and shoulders above the Little 10.  Michigan could not do that this year or next or the next.  Not in their dreams.  In fact, last year - when youth was not an issue at the line - they could not move the ball against Bama.  But somehow not being able to move it this year is a "youth issue".  

WARNING:  Fandom can and will lead to willful blindness on behalf of emotional attachment.  Proceed with caution.

TXmaizeNblue

November 3rd, 2013 at 1:08 AM ^

but your still denying reality. Michigan, of their own volition, chose to play two guards that had less experience than two that had "plenty of playing time" - by your definition, because in the coaches estimation that gave them a better chance to win. They sure as hell didn't put them out there to gain experience for next year.

Secondly, I would consider a team that plays Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, and puts up over 40 pts on each, with underclassmen on the line, to be far more of an accomplishment than Michigan having 3 young guys trying to fend off the likes of Akron, Uconn, Penn St, and MSU while looking overwhelmed. No comparison my friend...at all. And once again bowl season will expose Sparty as being a fraud when faced with real competition.

Go ahead bury yourself in excuses if that helps medicate reality. We all have our own ways of dealing with defeat.

* What's with the "walk-on" distinction? You use it as if it adds to your argument. The fact Michigan is even starting a walk-on only adds to the strength of my argument. The line is so shitty they need to look to the student body for help.

somewittyname

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:51 PM ^

I don't think you do. Maybe not call zone read on 3rd and 2 in red zone. But real question is, can this performance really be blamed on simply youth when we have a great pair of tackles, a seemingly decent glasgow, a 5 star RS frosh and then bryant, bars, bosch, magnuson, miller? Forget about the rushing game, we were playing 6 OL at times with fitz in pass pro and they were getting to DG. Something is seriously seriously wrong.

jmblue

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:09 PM ^

I think those are fair questions - and I don't know if Funk is the guy to coach the OL.

But from a playcalling standpoint, I think Borges's hands were pretty tied by our incredibly poor run blocking/pass protection.  

 

victors2000

November 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 PM ^

It's not average, even slightly below average, it is POOR. Does youth account for the lack of quality? Our guys are big, they are used to playing football, and yet they look like rejects from the Ivy league (sorry for the insult Ivy league rejects). You can say no OC would have luck with this line but would our O-line be as bad had those OC's coached them up? Is the best our coaches could do with these guys after 8 games the best any coaches could do with our guys?

TheDarkPope

November 2nd, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^

"Can this performance really be blamed on simply youth...?"

 

Glasgow is a sophomore and a walk-on. 

Kalis is a RS Frosh. Yes, he's a 5* but still a RS Frosh. Even 'Bama tries not to start RS Frosh. 

Bryant is a sophomore.

Bars is a freshman. 

Bosch is a freshman. 

Magnuson is a freshman.

Miller is a sophomore. 

Every lineman you mentioned outside of the tackles, suffers from youth/inexperience. 

 

somewittyname

November 2nd, 2013 at 11:35 PM ^

You're not telling me anything I don't know. My point is there are a lot of potential contributors there and it's not unreasonable to get production out of RS sophs. Bottom line this is a historically bad OL and last year's was poor at best. If you want to chalk that up simply to youth fine but it's not like we're lacking in supposed talent, so I think it goes beyond that. 

bighouse22

November 3rd, 2013 at 12:19 AM ^

If it is truely based on youth, why not let your best 5 play and go through the growing pains.  The message being sent by the coaching staff is that this is a personnel issue.  They keep pulling interior linemen in favor of different linemen with the same result.  Heck, I think they had two walkons starting at one point.

My question is to the coaching staff.  Is it youth? If so, why keep changing personnel.  Is it personnel?  How could we have missed so badly on the talent evaluation?  

Is it the coaching?  The line has gotten worse not better.  We have gone from 27 yards on 30 carries down to an alltime low of -49 yards rushing.  Something is seriously wrong here!

IPFW_Wolverines

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^

I am blaming both of them. I am also blaming the QB coach for Gardner's inconsistency. He is having a lot of the same problems Denard had. Not setting his feet, poor throwing angles, not stepping up in the pocket, etc.

Reader71

November 3rd, 2013 at 12:36 PM ^

While I agree on Devin's technical problems, Borges has talked ad nauseam about trying to fix them. I'm not saying he shouldn't be held responsible, but this seems to be a problem on Devin's end.

That aside, it is impossible to step up in a pocket that is not there. Devin tried that a few times yesterday and was sacked by the interior linemen. This line is bad.

UMFan95

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:59 PM ^

Incompetent coaching.  I think Hoke is way over his head.  He doesn't know how to coach, I am sorry.  This is on david brandon, he needs to man up and get a proper coach who gives this team a fighting chance.  We need a coach that can take a weaker team in a hostile environment and win.  Hoke cant coach up anyone, even the dline.  He has no strategy.  I would even say Mark D. is a better coach than HOke the joke

CLord

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:10 PM ^

My good friend who's been following UM since 1980  just like me said this exact thing. I'm not ready to give up on Hoke, but I gave up on Borges 3 weeks ago after Penn State.  His apologists are just inflicting more pain upon this program by delaying the first obvious cure to its woes.  Fire Borges come end of season and Funk too.

Profwoot

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:42 PM ^

Good point, actually. I'm sure Brian is enjoying all the extra clicks from the unwashed masses that have flooded the site, but he needs to be careful. This place is MLive right now, and it's only going to get worse. Even if it means shutting the site down for a few days, bringing voting back before it gets any worse needs to be the #1 priority.

There's an army of people willing to try to save your website, Brian! Let us!

LSAClassOf2000

November 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 PM ^

I think what happened much of the time back in the days of the old system is that this site would actually crash outright because of capacity issues, or at least so I remember from conversations I have had with the higher ups. 

As for returning voting, one of the flaws of the karma system is that you would have a thread like this and literally watch things get upvoted / downvoted serially based on the mood of the poster doing the voting. It was simply their way of having the last word.

I say this as a mod, but the old system which actually created an impact on point totals - if you cared about that sort of thing - were preferable to me. We only stepped in with the extreme sh*t then. 

UMFan95

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:39 PM ^

My friend did you watch the game today.  IF you did and you want hoke to continue, you are the worst michigan fan ever.  Like those people that wanted richrod to stay.  This program is falling more and more into the regional status.  we have no will, we have no coach, we have no player improvement.  Hoke is not cutting, the sooner you realize this, the faster we can rescue our program from mediocracy

highestman

November 2nd, 2013 at 11:17 PM ^

Ummm, dude, 2006? Remember that ball state team that came to the big house and was a last second stop from beating one of the best michigan defenses ever? Hoke has done great things with lesser teams. I honestly think he relies a lot on coordinators for his in game strategy, and Borges is just letting him down.