The Snowflake Thread: Offensive Line (Specific OL Issues)

Submitted by Gulogulo37 on

"There are several teams across the country who are operating with extremely young O-linemen. And they all seem to be able to run the ball."

Comments like these have been quite common in response to those posters who think there isn't anything the coaches can do given our line. However, I've yet to see anyone actually name one of these supposed teams. So, honestly, which teams have 3 (or more) starters on their O-line that are as young and inexperienced as ours but actually field good offenses? I honestly want to know if these teams actually exist.

MOD EDIT: The original title was "Which teams have competent O-lines that are young and inexperienced?", but as this might become a center point of discussion, this will be repurposed as a separate Snowflake Thread. Hopefully, the OP does not mind - LSA

OP EDIT: I specifically made this thread about other team's young O-lines because just making a thread about OL issues would likely lead to complaints about Borges or the players or whatever has been said a million times already, although those complaints are rife here as well unsurprisingly. However, I don't mind because it doesn't seem like anyone has an answer except UCLA, and theirs doesn't appear to be better than ours.

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Yeoman

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:46 PM ^

Agreed that they had a pretty big hole to plug--there's a whole lot of first and second year players on their O-line 2-deep.

But they don't quite fit the requested parameters becuase they have three third-year players on their line, so they don't have three as young as our three. My quick impression when I was looking through the history of 5-star OL recruits last week was that there's usually a big step up between the second and third year in a program.

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Yeoman

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 PM ^

...and they did start three freshmen against Oregon. It doesn't seem to have gone too well.

UCLA's website is terrible--they don't even post weekly game notes as far as I can see, so I don't know what happened to force the two new freshmen into the lineup. Injury? Or they played their way in?

They're the best comparison I've seen, for sure. Don't see any evidence their offense is better than Michigan's, but at least like Michigan they've won some games and scored some points. Could be worse.

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Reader71

November 3rd, 2013 at 4:23 AM ^

Michigan was close against MSU until the 4th. Michigan was beating Penn State until 27 seconds were left in regulation. These things are irrelevant, as was UCLA being close to Oregon. Also, M is ranked higher by FEI, which takes opposition defense into consideration. In raw numbers (before this weeks games, as sports-reference hasn't updated), Michigan is ranked 7th in scoring offense to UCLA's 32nd. There is a 6 point difference in PPG. So, Michigan's offense is better than UCLA's, despite our line being even more inexperienced than theirs. Their 3 true freshman line has been deployed once. Fire UCLA's line coach and offensive coordinator?

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CLord

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:14 PM ^

Not sure about that just yet.  It depends upon what happens come end of year.  If Hoke does not fire Borges and Funk, then I agree with you wholeheartedly, and the focus will quickly shift from just Borges and Funk to Hoke as well.

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swan flu

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:43 PM ^

Auburn has a freshman and two sophomores. Playing very well in the SEC, ranked 11 in the country. Edit- also, 5th in the country in rushing yards.

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turtleboy

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:44 PM ^

Michigan State, for one. Their o line has had a lot of turnover and injuries and youth issues, not to mention being made up of far less talented recruits, yet they performed much better than ours did with with its elite prospects and nfl draft picks in the depth chart.

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UMFan95

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:19 PM ^

this is so true, even lewan regressed this year so much.  I am not sure how we are almost at the end of the season and our team is moving backward.  There is no improvement.  Hoke will get up there and say we didn't play well enough to win the game, we didn't play with physicality.  For God's sake you preach this crap to us the whole time and your team is so soft and can even play physical at all.  They got punched in hte face big time today.  This team even knows that they are not at the same level as MSU

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TWSWBC

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:45 PM ^

I'm really disappointed in Lewan. He's a dirty player and his penalties have cost the team several times in his career. His leadership talk is all fake and he should have left for the NFL.

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G. Gulo of the Dale

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:32 PM ^

Our O-line coaching might be terrible--I'm neither a coach nor am I in the lockerroom--and the results have certainly not been acceptable.  But I'm beginning to worry that the O-line problems have to do with something being awry with the players, outside of mere inexperience.  I know we need all five linemen to execute as individuals, but it's strange that our "soon-to-be-top-15-pick" can't elevate the play of his peers through practice, insight, motivation, etc.  Part of me thinks that trading senior Lewan for a less talented senior Molk would improve our play.  I'm not saying that Lewan isn't a good player, but his brashness is starting to outstrip his performance.    

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highestman

November 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 PM ^

I've had this sense since the beginning of the year that Lewan is not a leader at all. Besides loosing his cool a lot, when denard, Martin and others were seniors, I would read about them knocking on guys doors in off season at 6am to get them to workouts. I don't get the sense Lewan is pushing guys th same way as an upperclassman

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ghost

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:48 PM ^

UCLA is also very young, but they also have a soon to be 1st round draft pick playing QB.  

Also going into the MSU game Michigan was 8th in the country in scoring.  

 

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umfan323

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:48 PM ^

4* and 5* recruits along the O line meaning these are guys who should be able to contribute as RS freshmen and sophomores...no need for excuses about being young

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ghost

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:54 PM ^

If there are no excuses for being young than you should be able to provide a very long list of all these teams with really young offensive lines that have great offenses.  So far UCLA's has been mentioned, but it remains to be seen how good they really are.  

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HAIL-YEA

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:07 PM ^

because its so easy to get a database of teams starting olineman ..along with how many years they have been in the program.  We are starting 1 true freshman and it is by choice.. it's not like he is the only option. And in case you forget..you only get to play college ball for 4 years, where are all these teams with  5 5th year seniors on their oline.  There is a big difference between struggling because you have young players and what funk has been trotting out there this year. This is just shit coaching and the evidence is clear as day.

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ghost

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:17 PM ^

Actually it is.  Its called Rivals.  Did you miss the whole RichRod massive attrition/ swtitch to the spread thing because that is why they are starting freshmen and sophmores.

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Sten Carlson

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:27 PM ^

You can sit there and say it's "shit coaching" all you want, you're entitled to your opinion.  However, I think you're taking the "easy" way out on understanding what is going on.  I think we first have to agree on a basic fundamental competence on the part of the coaching staff, and in particular Funk.  If  you cannot agree to that, stop reading.

So, given at least aveage competence at coaching OLinemen, I think what people are discounting is what happens if ALL of the OLinemen that have been shifting in aren't very good -- at least not yet.  There is a game every week, and it seems to me that the coaches are having to choose the "least bad" OLine combination every week.  That is what having a young pool to choose from forces the coaching staff to do.  They coach them up, see who has the best week in practice, insert them into the line up, and see how it goes.  This is what it seems to me "Funk is trotting out there."  He's having to choose between guys that aren't that good, guys that aren't ready, and....nobody. 

There aren't many teams with 5 RS Sr's playing on the OL, but by the same token, there aren't many teams that have the lack of OL depth that Michigan has.  Why do you think Hoke recruited so many OLinemen in the last two classes?  It's a shame he wasn't able to get more OLinemen in his first class as they're sorely needed.

Funk knows what he's doing.  Is he the best?  I don't know, and you don't know.  But, what we do know is that his choices are limited.

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HAIL-YEA

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:33 PM ^

do know he is definatly not the best. Answer me this, in his third year can you name a single player on the O-line that has improved?  In his 3rd year there is not a single player you can point to and say ok, Fund did a good job with that guy.

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Sten Carlson

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:38 PM ^

How do you know he's not the best?  Are you an OL coach?

Molk improved a great deal.  Huege improved, as did Omameh.  Glasgow has improved, and I think Bosch has obviously developed as he's starting now.

I want to see what he does with the bevy of top talent they've brought in in the last two classes before I crucify the guy.

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HAIL-YEA

November 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 PM ^

was an All American before Funk ever met him. Omameh regressed from his sophomore year through last year. Huyge was a 5th year senior the only year he was here with Funk. Glasgow and Bosch are seeing their first playing time this year, how could you possibly conclude they have improved or developed when you have no baseline to compare from.

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Spontaneous Co…

November 2nd, 2013 at 11:46 PM ^

I think the problem I am having is that these discussions end up focused on the fact that our o line isn't great and you point at the experience factor. Some posters are just crazy but many, like me, are more focused on the fact that our online is not only not great, they suck. I don't think experience is an excuse for that level of play. I wasn't expecting world beaters but this is way below even some pretty mild expectations.

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