Signing Day - hindsight - NIL & "Pay for Play" - is anything illegal?

Submitted by Amazinblu on December 21st, 2023 at 4:34 PM

The early Signing Day had a lot of activity - and one element of drama dealt with Jeremiah Smith - a highly regarded prospect who eventually signed and sent his LOI to the folks in Columbus.

There were reports of a bidding war going on - between the Bucks and Miami (YTM).  

According to NCAA guidelines - "Pay for Play" is prohibited as an inducement for prospects.

My question is - Really?   It looks like Pay for Play is in place with many insitutions.

As has been discussed in other threads - there's a strategy - NIL now - development later, or NIL opportunities based on performance.   It seems to me as if there are no rules or guidelines whatsoever.   Texas spends $ 800K for an OV.   Teams are in bidding wars for prospects.   

Is there anything (NCAA guidelines, etc.) that must be followed - or have been determined to be "inappropriate"?   If so, what are they?

From my perspective - the Wild, Wild West - is a tremendous understatement based on the activity that's been taking place.

Romeo50

December 24th, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^

Not as illegal as not remembering buying them 2 years before. That will be a show cause so you cannot interrupt the NCAA tv money gravy train and have to share any with the people risking life and limb. 

What if Door Dash brings a recruit cheeseburgers in a Lamborghini? Conundrum.

AlbanyBlue

December 21st, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^

Yep. It's hard not to say/think that the only institution under scrutiny is Michigan.

Really makes ya warm and fuzzy toward the conference and the NCAA.

Ernis

December 21st, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^

You aren’t accounting for the unknown unknowns.

which is probably something like big bags of cash certain schools pay to the NCAA to avoid scrutiny

corruption is not a flaw, it’s a feature!

vablue

December 21st, 2023 at 10:01 PM ^

That makes no sense at all.  He was investigated and nothing further came up.  What he didn’t want to have happen was lose players in the middle of his season for getting free tatoos.  However, my point is that OSU has been busted and they had one of their best coaches literally get the ban hammer.  So let’s not act like it doesn’t happen to OSU.

if you want to act like the NCAA has it out for Harbaugh and makes anything he does illegal, I am all in on that theory.

rice4114

December 22nd, 2023 at 1:19 AM ^

The NCAA is here to police Um, Penn St, Ohio St, USC then repeat the process again. We have already had our second and third round so one of these other teams are up next. We will rejoice when its their turn but as a single collective (Big Ten Teams) we just dont wise up. 

You got co-recruiting numbers 1s in Georgia and Bama doing this for years and years and not 1 mishap. NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE. Come on man. We recruited like Bama football in one sport for one year,  the FAB FIVE, and our program got jettisoned into the sun for a decade. 

Amazinblu

December 22nd, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^

Texas A&M dropped a boatload of cash to get the a very highly ranked class a couple of years ago.

Bama, Georgia, and the Buckeyes have had highly ranked classes for a decade or so.  How does everyone think they did it?  It often begins with “Ben”. … sometimes it’s Benjamins, other times it’s Benz, and very often - it’s both.

Did you hear about a JuCo transfer to Ole Miss?   He drove to the LOI signing in a new Lamborghini.    There’s inducement - is there?

Amazinblu

December 21st, 2023 at 4:54 PM ^

OV = Official Visit.

And, of course, certain schools are now paying prospects just to visit - though, I don’t know if those payments are for both unofficial and official visits.

The OV was intended to be a visit for a prospect and parents / guardians - which was paid for by the school - to provide for a level field and not burden families.

KBLOW

December 21st, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^

Apparently, not exactly recalling one short meal at your favorite lunch spot (that you've been to a zillion times in your life) that you bought for two already committed recruits who dropped by unannounced during one of the weirdest most unusual times in US history is the only crime the NCAA cares about.

JHumich

December 21st, 2023 at 5:02 PM ^

How does one write in to the Joel Klatt show for mailbag questions? I'd love to ask:

"Joel, in your signing day show, you went on and on encouraging signing inducements. But they are technically illegal and much more impactful than advance scouting. As you yourself said, they are changing the balance of power in all of college football.

How can you encourage the one rule-breaking, when you insisted so strenuously for weeks that Michigan has broken a rule (that you yourself implied was a silly rule) and should be punished?

I know that you were even-handed enough that you took a lot of heat for supposedly defending Michigan. But doesn't integrity require you to insist just as strenusouly that all of these inducement-offering programs should be punished?"

Shorty the Bea…

December 21st, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^

Your own question is answered if you'd care to read into yourself. You say he advocated changing a rule, not letting programs cheat the rule right now without consequences. He stated a fact that it is happening. Not condoning a lack of accountability but rather implicitly implying that it is impossible to police effectively (which is true).

He also said Michigan cheated a rule right now and was caught and should be held accountable. But also agreed the rule should be changed. 

Those ideas are separate and not in any conflict. So you have no question.

 

JHumich

December 21st, 2023 at 7:23 PM ^

He literally encouraged people showing up with a bag at the door right now, yesterday in fact, with no rule change. He said that it happened and that it is wonderful.

But he's also a big enough man to do a mea culpa on that—he's not like Finebaum or Feldman.

He also has a very large audience, some of whom might actually begin to listen if he ended up saying, "After that signing day, you can all just stop clutching your pearls about Michigan."

———

It was a real question about the podcast, which I hear regularly and sometimes see on YT. I'm sure I can figure it out if I have to, but I thought asking here would get a quick answer (not some bizarre and inaccurate rebuttal).

I don't even care if I am the one who asks the question. Anyone is welcome to do so in your own name.

NittanyFan

December 21st, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^

Pay for play is what it is - it’s not going away (and always was there to an extent anyway).  It’s sort of like yelling at the clouds at this point.

One thing that interests me with the new Big Ten - among the schools with the most resources, I think you’ll have Ohio State, USC and Oregon on one side and Penn State, Michigan and Washington on the other.  The former schools playing the pay for play and NIL games to a significantly larger extent than the latter.

(Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MSU, UCLA - more likely to be in the latter group, if only because their potential monetary resource pool is smaller)

Michigan has won the conference 3 times running now, so obviously schools from the latter group can still reach the top of the mountain.  But it is a more challenging uphill climb, no doubt about that.

NittanyFan

December 21st, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^

I generally agree. 

On revenue sharing --- PSU is on-board with the idea, Franklin has been advocating for it himself over the past year.  PSU and U-M are fairly well aligned there*.

https://apnews.com/article/franklin-ncaa-nil-nfl-penn-state-00e6cbdd0979d1b20951cbd13ec61124

Now, will the Michigans and PSUs of the world win this battle?  I tend to doubt it.

-----

* Footnote: I know Franklin gets a hard time here, which is fine.  But IMO he and Harbaugh are fairly alike as regards their thoughts on the overall state of college football.  Satelitte camps back in the mid-2010s, they were on the same page there too.

Perkis-Size Me

December 21st, 2023 at 5:15 PM ^

There’s only one rule:

Whatever Michigan does, it’s illegal, an affront to the sanctity of college football, an affront to America and all that is good and true, and you can bet your bottom dollar the NCAA will be the vanguard of justice for Michigan’s victims and bring the hammer.

And that’s largely because Michigan chooses to be one of the few remaining institutions that gives the NCAA any semblance of deference and credibility. 

njvictor

December 21st, 2023 at 5:15 PM ^

The NCAA won’t enforce any of it because frankly they are afraid. They don’t want to be taken to court and lose more power. They will enforce violations that don’t regard athlete earnings

rice4114

December 22nd, 2023 at 1:32 AM ^

Then why doesnt U of M cut tv revenue NIL checks to the players after seasons end this year?

If NIL is legal than be the first god damn team to pay for NIL!

I cant believe we dont do it and tell the NCAA "Sorry we are paying our kids for their NIL anything else would be against the spirit of the rule"

Make the NCAA try to stop NIL payments to kids on national tv making us millions. Go on just try to stop it!

DonAZ

December 21st, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^

There are no rules, and I suspect everyone is afraid to try to codify things for three reasons: (1) lawsuits; (2) no matter what's written down, it won't cover everything; and (3) if you close a loophole, the money will just flow underground like it was before.  The NCAA will try to maintain an appearance of authority by punishing schools they think will allow it, but the handwriting is on the wall: within a decade the NCAA will be gone, and a super-conference with its own ruling body will be in force.