RichRod's Mindset
I was thinking about this during the 4th quarter of the Iowa game and I want to inquire about the thoughts of the MGoCommunity:
Does RichRod really, really want to develop an effective 2nd QB because he has nightmares of WVU-PITT or does he really, really want to install a run-based spread offense?
Which is more likely?
October 13th, 2009 at 3:14 PM ^
I don't think that he wants to install a run-based spread to the detriment of the passing game. I think that, as he has said many times, that he wants "at least two guys that he can win with." I thought that I read somewhere that if anyone wants a run-based spread, that it was Magee.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:24 PM ^
Option A: He thinks a viable back-up is a good idea. He has experience in the area of being a 28-point favorite and seeing his shot at a MNC go to the toilet because he did not have a viable back-up to Pat White. I tend to agree with this.
I think RR is a good enough coach to adapt to his talent as opposed to force a system. He ran Minor from the I-formation and he's utilizing Koger. His main concern is speed. We have that now, it's just young speed.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:14 PM ^
Tate was not doing well, so he put Denard in.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:21 PM ^
Write that one down so you don't forget it.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:23 PM ^
I take it at face value that he thought Robinson offered the best chance to win on Saturday. I didn't agree at the time, but Coach Rodriguez has coached a lot more record-breaking college QBs than I have.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:42 PM ^
That's not the question. The question was which of the 2 options is more likely. Your answer is based on the fact that the OP said he thought about this in the 4th quarter of the Iowa game.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:16 PM ^
I think RR is most concerned about depth and feels he NEEDS 2 QBs at any time so there isn't a drop off in case of injury.
RR doesn't seem to be tied to certain schemes. He primarily threw the ball with Shuan King and ran the ball with Pat White.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:23 PM ^
clearly wants to pass the ball based on the number of receivers he has recruited. He knows that the spread or any offense works better with more options and versatility. I also think, as well as Forcier has played, that Rodriguez sees Denard as a special player who could be a very good quarterback and wants to give him a chance to play. If Denard didn't have talent or Forcier wasn't struggling at times, I believe Rodriguez would stay with the same qb for the whole game.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:24 PM ^
But c'mon ToledoGoBlue. RichRod is a professional football coach dedicated to winning. Pat White earned uncontested first string status. Earned it over several YEARS of playing. Tate Forcier is a very promising true freshman but in football terms has not earned the status over several GAMES many of us fans have given him. So RichRod is still figuring out what he's got, what their strengths and limitations are and who reacts how under what conditions. Given that both QB's are new, that QB"s are prone to injury (imagine!), and that both QB"s - especially Tate - are toothpicks by collegiate standards, why wouldn't RichRod want a two QB's ready to go??
October 13th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^
i think he wants to develop every player on the roster
October 13th, 2009 at 3:27 PM ^
Spread offenses live and die by the QB. Especially since we have a run-heavy offensive QB (Denard) and a pass-heavy offensive QB (Tate), we have a more diversified portfolio.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:27 PM ^
RichRod is obviously trying to destroy the Michigan name by forgetting that this isn't the BigEast. He recruits tiny players with not enough star rating on their own accord. He uses a system that just won't work in the BigTen. The spread is dead, and he knows it. It's all an elaborate plot to destroy Michigan, schedule a game with Marshall right before leaving Michigan, take the job at Marshall, and beat Michigan. [/sarcasm]
In reality, I think he wants to offer the best chance to win. As shown, having a change of pace system can work really well. We change pace between the two quarterbacks, shotgun/i-formations, and tempo. It just acts as another package the opposing defense has to be ready for. If they don't prepare for everything, we'll find their weakness. If they do prepare for everything, we'll settle into a groove then change it up later in the game.
QED, the move to the I-form against Iowa. It was a late change from our pattern that Iowa became accustomed to defending. They didn't have time to adjust to it either due to a higher tempo on offense.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:30 PM ^
It makes me sad that you had to explicitly state that the first part of your response was sarcastic.
It makes me even more sad that I understand why you had to.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:14 PM ^
the change of pace system sure looked pretty damn good last night when miami ran it. of course that is only because jake long was wreckin' dudes all night.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:21 PM ^
Yeah, I was going to use that example, but I figured everyone here definitely saw the Michigan game, but only most probably saw the MNF game.
Rex Ryan's comments about not being ready for that many looks definitely held true. Miami changed both pace and attack style, and the Jets just weren't ready to cover all those packages. Henne's ability to mix in the vertical threat a bit better than Chad Pennington (Pennington is a pretty good NFL QB for his short accuracy than his ability to throw parabolic beauty) definitely helped amplify the attacks. The defense was getting burned deep and started playing toward that. All of a sudden a White/Brown/Williams snap would come and the DBs would be just getting into their groove of protecting deep. The Wildcat QB then would have more room to run.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:38 PM ^
mind reading machine i invented.
nope. not true.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:40 PM ^
He has stated many times starting is voluntary; he wants the best guys out there playing, regardless of seniority. He wants to win. While I'm sure he is partial to the spread option he developed, Coach Rod can adapt; the final scoring drive against Iowa can attest to that.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^
2 good qbs > 1 good qb. WHERE DOES RICH ROD COME UP WITH THIS STUFF?!
October 14th, 2009 at 10:20 AM ^
I thought 2 QBs = 0 QBs? That is what the guys on the TV tell me... Apparently they took different math classes than you.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:23 PM ^
You'll probably just have to ask him next time you see him.
October 13th, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
I think RR wants to win championships, like lots of them. I think he has grand visions of making this program as big as Florida lately, FSU in the 90's and Nebraska before that. The only way we are going to get there is with more than 1 option at QB. I didn't like it at first, but I think in the grand scheme of building a program that rivals the dynasties of the past, you had to make that decision. He needs Robinson as much as he needs Forcier, for obvious reasons (i.e. one gets hurt) and not so obvious reasons (which we may never fully know). I have to side with someone that is way more informed about the situation than me. GO BLUE!!!!!
October 13th, 2009 at 7:05 PM ^
and then remember what RR said about Denard Robinson (being the fastest player he's ever coached). I think RR wants to have his cake and eat it too: run his read spread option and let the pieces fall where they may.
He wants:
1.) the high throwing accuracy and mobility (but not break line speed) of Shaun King at QB. This is Tate Forcier.
2.) the elusiveness and speed of Pat White who can break it on any play. This is without question Denard Robinson.
I've already asserted that RR has not even installed half the playbook (or the freshmen reads haven't progressed to a point to bear them all out). These two kids are going to be very special as sophomores.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:16 PM ^
I really like you're post and I agree with it completely. I just hope one of these two qbs don't transfer because their not the all time starter.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:16 PM ^
respectively, it's sometimes difficult to look past the week, the game or the season. As much as I believe all these freshmen and sophomores will be incredible in the years to come, mostly 2011, I so impatiently want to see the progression and the results now.
This team is very close to becoming very good. There are a few reads every game that the QBs or RBs miss that, when they see them as they happen, will make this offense explode. The defense is a few players away, and a year behind the offense of course, but you can see glimpses of what is to come.
I hope for more patience on my part and those that control the density, I mean, the destiny of this program. If RR doesn't get the time, I don't think I could take that kind of rejection.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:20 PM ^
I'm imagining RR reading this thread, eating Tacos at Midnight Doritos and laughing heartily.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:31 PM ^
The Future reference? It was more the play on words than actual fear.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:38 PM ^
If RR had only had success and experience with a run based spread there would be little doubt that's where he is headed. But he has shown time and time again that he will try to use what works best. Having a passing threat a la Forcier and running threat a la Robinson just makes it easier to find what works. Who knows what the future will hold with injuries, new recruits, etc. but RR is going to build a real powerhouse program here sooner than later.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:14 PM ^
To answer the original question, at least on a superficial level: neither choice is "more likely." RR has proven he can win with both a pass-oriented QB and a run-oriented QB. I think he will eventually use a "two-headed QB" so that he can have both.
Being the "Godfather of the Spread Option" doesn't seem to carry as much weight in some people's eyes as it used to; maybe he can be the "Godfather of the Two-Headed Monster QB," too.
I can't remember anyone being successful with the two-QB system, other than Leak and Tebow anyway, and that wasn't a real "two-QB system;" it was more of a one-QB system with situational substitutions. Other systems usually involved lame QB's who gave rise to the cliche that two QB's = zero QB's. Also, the other two-QB systems didn't have as much variance as UM would with Forcier and Robinson.
RR could soon be breathing the rarified air of a coach who has been a pioneer not once, but twice. It sure will be fun to watch things unfold the next year or two.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:27 AM ^
The way this looks so far is more like Leak/Tebow than a true 2 QB system.
Tate seems to be the entrenched starter with Denard coming in as a change of pace.
Perhaps that will change in the future as Denard learns the offense more.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:27 AM ^
There can be any queston to this: Rodriguez wants depth and competition at every spot not just for injuries' sakes, but so that each player is driven to be better.
What I like about the Forcier/Robinson thingy is seemingly two different attacking styles that could be interchangeable if one guy can't get it done. Forcier has shown that he can both run and pass (while obviously passing is his strong suit)--and Robinson hopefully gets to a level where he can do both.
I used to be in the camp of "two QB's means you don't have one"--but clearly Robinson brought something to the Iowa game (and in the Indiana game as well whe we needed a score late in the second half) that worked. Where things didn' work out was at the end when the situation was almost impossible for him to succeed, given his skill set and lack of development as a passer.
Now put me in the group of people who thinks "HOLY fuck--wait til Gardner gets here and has a year to develop before he is thrown into the fire before he's ready"--and watching Michigan Football just might replace masturbation and sleeping as my favorite activities.