Question on "Ohio State and other Big Ten teams" collusion
From the Columbus dispatch (10/26)
Ahead of its College Football Playoff semifinal matchup against Michigan in December, TCU was warned by Ohio State and other Big Ten teams about "Michigan's elaborate sign-stealing scheme," according to a Yahoo Sports report.
Pure speculation on my part, but I want to know* if anyone has seen anything else.
- Are these the same teams that were colluding to steal Michigan's signs?
- Is there any evidence that they shared Michigan's signs while they were warning TCU? Seems like their loyalties aren't with the B1G.
Evidently there is no additional payout to the conference for a team making the National Championship game.
My memory of the TCU game is a bit fuzzy but I remember a lot of broken plays by that red headed QB being the difference. Sign stealing wouldn't influence that.
*I've been spending 4-5 hours a day on this while looking for a job and haven't seen it discussed, so be nice to me.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
2 pick sixes is why we lost...and a terrible non-TD call.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
Pick sixes that could have been aided by knowing the offense's play-call signs.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
Well. The NCAA just did this so it won’t matter soon.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2023/11/08/sign-stealing-ncaa-helmet-communications-sideline-tablets-in-college-football-bowl-games/71501460007/
November 8th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
Apologies of this is old news. But I found this article fascinating
November 8th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^
Uh, I hadn't seen that...I think that's thread-worthy
November 8th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
Does not apply to CFP. Only the Bowl games
November 8th, 2023 at 2:37 PM ^
I mentioned in other threads that a conference (let's say the B1G) - agreed that helmet communications would be allowed for Conference games.
This post season / non-CFP bowl game "pilot" will provide data that the NCAA can act on.
November 8th, 2023 at 6:25 PM ^
I wish people wouldn't link to the fp. I can't bring myself to follow them.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
That strikes me as the same reasoning OSU fans are using to excuse why they lost in 2021 and 2022. Way too tinfoil hat for my taste.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
No -- just, no.
For one thing, although I didn't see it in his article, Larry Lage came on WTKA and said that his source -- Mr. Former Sign Stealer for an unnamed team, but likely Purdue -- informed Michigan prior to the playoff: "hey, here's what's floating around out there." (It then follows that the more recent follow-up was basically the receipts).
For a second thing, if Michigan didn't change up their signs, that's on them. Be consistent -- it's not fair to say "OSU should have changed their signs if they thought Michigan had them" but then to complain if somebody had Michigan's signs.
Third, given OSU's question to the NCAA, advanced scouting of potential playoff teams doesn't appear to have been an NCAA violation, presumably because they weren't currently on your schedule (but more to the point, because it's not a big advantage)
Fourth, it really isn't that big of an advantage -- you still need to make the play.
And finally -- while I don't claim to be an expert, the postgame breakdowns on those plays cited poor footwork putting the ball in range of the defender instead of in a spot where only the receiver can get it.
TCU didn't steal that game from Michigan. Michigan gave it to them.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Your response to that post is correct. But the question asked by the OP is not whether or not TCU having Michigan’s signs changed the game.
The original question and the real issue is whether or not Ryan Day is so petty that he shared Michigan’s signs with TCU. In that case there is no doubt he did. He had them. He shared them with Purdue. He told TCU Michigan might have their signs. He absolutely shared Michigan’s signs with TCU.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
OF COURSE Ryan Day shared our signs with TCU. He did NOT want to face us again in the playoffs. A 3rd loss in 2 years might have been enough to get him canned...
November 8th, 2023 at 1:05 PM ^
Maybe… More likely a good cornerback that knows his reads combined with an “interceptable” throw.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^
So a new hire with no previous football background and an obsession uses private individuals to use cell phones to better observe signals versus plays than he could get from all the game film he already gets and then synthesizes it to help discern plays upon playing the teams recorded...allegedly. This is not a written NCAA rule by the way. This same person may have attended one game of a future opponent on his own time as yet still unproven.
Balanced in the interest of fairness and competitive balance against that is at least three Bigten schools already synthesized and charted on a spreadsheet signals of Michigan. Their professional coaches advance scouted sharing and acceptance of this with future opponents of Michigan in the biggest of games certainly trumps what the over zealous novice can come up with especially since UM acknowledged the signals documented were indeed accurate. The team central who did this and stood most to benefit from this competitive advantage is pressing the most to punish its rival and benefit further in record and recruiting.
Weigh that Tony.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
2 pick sixes where the DB jumped a play, almost like he knew what was coming.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
One of the passes was underthrown and I don’t think JJ makes that error this year. The other was either a good play or nefarious advanced scouting. Don’t forget the goal line fumble and that weird run play at the goal line when we could have just ran a QB sneak. A lot of points left on the field of our own doing.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
You’re the guy who makes M fans look like conspiracy nuts. They were both terrible passes. A db who knows the signs still can’t tell where a QB will locate a pass. Just stop it.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
I was being a bit sarcastic on the nefarious scouting part. I think that second interception was a great play, a bad read on JJs part sure. My greater point is - I don’t think our signs being in the possession of TCU matters. We made a ton of very costly mistakes, that didn’t appear to be due to signs.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:28 PM ^
I don't know. Signs or no, TCU's entire game strategy was basically "Live or Die Explosively"
They did not have the team to grind out a win against Michigan on either side of the ball, Michigan preferred to grind teams to dust last year, and so TCU set up play such that Michigan could only win explosively. You have to hand it to Dikes for that, it was a smart strategy.
Jumping inside running lanes, jumping short routes, quick strike scoring drives or nothing for them, monster explosive scores for us. Everything in that game was explosive. You can't blame jumping short lateral routes on sign stealing, because TCU was probably sitting on those the entire game.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
That's right. The only team that stole our signs that game is the replay officials. Screw them!
November 8th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^
“Nope. They cheated. Had to. We can’t lose.” - OSU
November 8th, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^
All the more reason this whole saga is stupid as shit.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:47 PM ^
Yeah, I like how the tcu players went back and rewatched the “tv version” to see how stallions got the signals wrong…..
I don’t watch many games on tv anymore, so maybe someone can clarify…generally speaking….how many times do the broadcasts show the dc and a staffer talking to each other? I thought they usually showed the teams lining up and maybe a hc shot in there every now and then….
But then again, the whole reason tcu won is bc poor ol’ Michigan just ain’t much without their cheating!
November 8th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
There is a 0% chance that the conversation was "hey lookout for sign stealing, and good luck!"
It was definitely "hey lookout for sign stealing, and here is what we've gathered so far. good luck!"
November 8th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Best of luck to you on the job hunt OP!
November 8th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
Ditto that.
OP, let the board know what you're looking for as their is likely someone in your space that's also here. Or at least knows someone.
MGoCommunity!
November 8th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
Appreciate it mi93 and Gerald Ford 48. My resume is all over the place due to wanting to stay near my wife's parents before they passed. Succinctly:
16 years as a producer and Director of groups of producers making kids video games, educational SaaS and toys for Disney, Mattel, Hasbro, Cambium Learning, etc.
12 years in business development and sales for a white label web portal (think yahoo or AOL).
Michigan undergrad, got a free MBA with honors at a top 75 school. 1 year of teacher certification grad school that I didn't finish.
Looking for a senior manager/director/VP level product or software production role. Could also do negotiations/biz dev.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Thanks West Quad. Any geographical considerations for the MGoBoard?
November 8th, 2023 at 1:24 PM ^
I've been remote for 5 years. I'm open to relocating but don't think I could afford to live in the Bay area or NYC. Close to B1G schools is good, but that is now everywhere.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Hmm. Live close to B1G schools. With all those games on TV. Now why might that be…? You prefer going to games in person…? Might YOU be part of The Vast Network…?
November 8th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^
We are legion. There is a vast network of known friends and trusted agents...
November 8th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
I'm pretty sure that we don't have that info, no.
And, as Gerald Ford said*, good luck with the job search! That's never fun.
*There's something I don't say every day.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
On the other hand, I suspect we could start.
As Gerald Ford said, Go Blue!
November 8th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
I quote Gerald Ford a fair amount fwiw! ;)
November 8th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
Your memory is fuzzy. It was the TD to Roman that was taken off the board, and followed up with a Mullings fumble on the goal line. That plus two pick-sixes was the difference. However, that horrible replay reversal may have really been the difference.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
Also, prior to the TD to Roman that was taken off the board, the ball was spotted two yards back from where it should have been. If spotted correctly, Roman would have clearly been in the endzone.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
OSU grad responsible for making sure the spot is correct. WTF
November 8th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
I think I have repressed memories from that game.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:04 PM ^
Is everyone just glossing over the shit-tastic game plan the offense came in with? You know, the one where we run into a stacked line until down 20-some points in the first half? The one where we don't use any play-action to punish the LB's and safeties for firing early against the run up the middle? You know, also the one where JJ is kept on a tight leash until a massive comeback is needed?
Yeah, the two pick-6's hurt, as did the Roman non-TD and the Mullings fumble. But there's plenty of blame to go around on the offensive brain trust, as well...
And having our offensive signs wouldn't hurt, either.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
Plus the bad angle on Quentin Johnston's TD.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
No one is loyal to the B1G, this isn't the SEC. Yes, OSU was one of the teams that is alleged to have stolen Michigan's signs.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
They aren't loyal to the B1G because they don't have a commissioner like the SEC has. Pettiti was a fool to let those coaches and ADs have his ear without Michigan on the phone. He should've told all of them to STFU and stop airing each others dirty laundry. He didn't do that, and now your flagship athletic department is under heavy scrutiny.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:04 PM ^
And if Keith Olbermann is to be believed, Petitti is a spineless coward. When Petitti was the president of the MLB network, he reneged on an offer to bring Keith on board because the Yankees pressured him. The Yankees were upset with some of Keith’s critical coverage. Petitti caved.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
A true Harvard man.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
Conference loyalty is almost a uniquely SEC thing and has nothing to do with who the commissioner is and probably began around the time people starting shooting at Fort Sumter.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^
Conference loyalty means nothing in the ACC so they tied their hands together with the grant of rights until 2036.
Conference loyalty meant nothing to the PAC-12 and so they dissolved.
Conference loyalty meant nothing to the BIG12 so they lost Missouri, Texas and Oklahoma and replaced them with lesser teams.
The SEC pays lip service to conference loyalty. What keeps them together is the money and the lack of a better alternative.
Apparently, conference loyalty means nothing to the other 13 Big10 teams. We’re about to find out what that means.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:28 PM ^
I still can’t come up with a rationale for handling on a conference call w/o Michigan. What is the benefit?
November 8th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^
Any reporter worth anything will ask Ryan Day this question beginning now. If Charmin-soft Ryan Day answers with "no comment," the reporters should ask the question over and over until he answers with substance, even if it's a BS denial such as "as far as I'm aware...."
And to point out the obvious, Ohio State got their asses handed to them in their own place last year even though they knew in advance we had a sign stealer. Half competent coaches could use that info their great advantage. Ohio State fans have so much pent up anger because their team/fanbase is a toxic mix of entitlement and underachievement that they're blind to the fact that their anger should be directed at their unworthy head coach.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
Right, if you have this information, you use it to your advantage and screw with Michigan. Instead...
Its likely that Ohio State:
Had Michigan's signs
Knew Michigan knew their signs
Was at home
With a NFL starter QB
And Marvin Harrison Jr
And Perfect weather
And Michigan had no Blake Corum
And a limited Mike Morris
And still lost 45-23 (which as someone pointed out on Twitter, should have been 52-23 if not for the pity whistle at the end that stopped a Michigan scoop and score).
November 8th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^
Don't forget about One-Hand Edwards showing up Tommy Two Thumbs and the gang. Missing the staring RB, the backup, who is known for his pass catching, couldn't catch a pass due to a cast but still torched OSU.