Question about Last Night's BB Game

Submitted by MadMatt on

I'm not very clued in to basketball, and I was hoping the community could explain something from last night's game (sorry to go poking around that open wound).

It seemed to me that VT got to the line, A LOT; like they were in the double bonus while Michigan was still inbounding the ball after a non-shooting foul.  I checked the box score, and sure enough VT was 19-21 on free throws and our Wolverines were 4-7.  (The whole game in a nut shell right there; they had fewer misses on 21 attempts than we did on 7!)

However, I've seen no consternation at all among our community, either during the game or after.  I saw no reaction from the Michigan bench.  Were all those foul calls (and non-calls) legit?  Is there a reason why we maize and blue colored glasses wearing fans have no beef with the officials?  I'm not looking to start a controversy; I honestly believe there is something about BB I don't understand.

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ijohnb

December 1st, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^

of the three officials were from states that share at least one letter with the letters in "Virginia," and the other one has been to Virginia or a state bordering Virginia.  This is explosive.

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Steve in PA

December 1st, 2016 at 1:04 PM ^

Launching 3's and shooting jumpshots generally doesn't draw many fouls Playing in the paint and being physical draws fouls, especially against slower or weaker opponents.

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mGrowOld

December 1st, 2016 at 1:13 PM ^

Actually OP the foul shot disparity IS the reason we lost.  But not because the officials tilted the field - it's because we dont take the ball to the basket and instead rely on jump shots.

No issue at all with the refs last night.  Big issue with our style of play IMO.

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901 P

December 1st, 2016 at 2:51 PM ^

It was frustrating because there seemed to be numerous instances of Irvin driving toward the basket, but then taking a step-back jumper. (I happen to notice that play because I am slow and weak, so I do the same thing when I'm playing pick-up if I happen to drive. It's like the bailout for mediocre basketball players.) I would think a big-time player would complete the drive and finish or draw a foul, even if it means sometimes getting blocked or missing at the rim. 

I seem to remember that Walton used to do that much more, and Caris certainly did. These days I think MAAR is the only one who really has that game. 

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Mauresi

December 1st, 2016 at 1:16 PM ^

As long as Coach B is here we will never get to the line more than our opponents. I think he's a good coach, great in terms of developing players, but I cannot stand the offense he runs. I've never liked it, never will. Relying on jump shots night in and night out will never create a great team. You'll be an inconsistent team, one that will be hot one night and cold the next.



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Mauresi

December 1st, 2016 at 3:43 PM ^

My point is that his offense is based upon shooters. It's not about stacking the rim or getting to the line. The lack of inside game shows up against any good team. When we can't shoot the lights out (South Carolina game, and 2nd half last night) we will lose. His teams have always been that way. Yes, he has had good teams, but here, at Michigan, he had one good year, surrounded by years of mediocrity. His one good year came on the back of McGary. Amazing what a big man with a post game can do!!! Shocking!



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ijohnb

December 1st, 2016 at 4:10 PM ^

have to get something going this year, man.  I have been saying the same things that you are right now for a while now, but this year cannot go the same way as the last two.  He built up quite a bit of equity but he is spending pretty fast.  Irvin and Walton are his last really high level recruits and they are seniors.  He has to make a little bit of a move this year or that Final Four and Elite 8 are quickly going to become irrelevant.

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The Mad Hatter

December 1st, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^

but shoot 3 pointers is boring as hell.

Also, I miss teams being allowed to play aggressive defense.  Basketball (college and pro) just isn't nearly as much fun to watch as it used to be.

Michael Jordan scored a lot of points, but he had to work for them.  These days anyone that gets near a "star" is fouled.

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MGolem

December 1st, 2016 at 1:23 PM ^

Just more incompetence from college basketball refs as a whole. We are obviously still learning to play defense as a team but the ticky tack nature of fouls in college basketball makes it almost unwatchable.

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ST3

December 1st, 2016 at 1:31 PM ^

What I mean by that is often you'll see one of our players (Donnal) reach in and then realize that could be a foul so they back off the offensive player and get vertical. The opponent proceeds to make an easy layup AND get the foul called. If you are going to foul, just go ahead and foul. What we do ends up in too many "and one" opportunities for the opposition. The bigs need to be more physical, and I'd include Wagner in that.

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Wal-Mart Wolverine

December 1st, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^

I still can't believe that the last game against St. Mary's, their 5'5" guard torched us for 25 points ! And we have a new defensive coach ?

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lilpenny1316

December 1st, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^

What happened to the 1-3-1 defense?  I remember more complaints about rebounding than defense.  Syracuse is constantly in the tournament and makes deep runs despite awful offense because it's so difficult to prepare for their 2-3 zone defense.  

I would expect the defensive play to be a bit uneven until the guys get more familiar with the new assistant coach and his system, but I thought we finally had the athletes to make the 1-3-1 a viable option.

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Steve in PA

December 1st, 2016 at 4:11 PM ^

I can only assume he succumbed to the pressure to play m2m. Many coaches think zone is lazy defense. I disagree and 1-3-1 is the first defense I teach. It can be a great pressure defense while still protecting the paint. When they were almost exclusively 1-3-1 they scored several upsets and nearly won many more. That was with JB's offense and inferior players. Now i think his offense has been thoroughly figured out and is easily defended

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Waka

December 1st, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^

Two calls during the game stood out to me as questionable. The first charge call on their guard who fouled out was weak. I felt it should have been a no-call. The second was Wilson's 5th foul, which they never showed a replay of. The color commentator pointed out a few other calls that he felt were questionable, and all went against Virginia Tech. If the refs influenced this game in any way, I think it was probably 2-3 points in our favor. Michigan choked this game away with poor defense, a poor performance from Irvin in the 2nd half, and questionable personnel decisions at the end of the game. It's hard to justify Wagner and Donnal playing the same number of minutes when Wagner was looking like tournament-Mcgary in the 2nd half and Donnal was looking like . . . Donnal.

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Grabelnyc

December 2nd, 2016 at 12:42 AM ^

You should re-watch DJ's 4th foul.  The guard lined up for the free throw at the 7:44 mark pushes DJ from the third position into his buddy in the 1st position.  It was in front of Michigan's bench.  I am a huge JB detractor.  Even I was shoocked that he started yelling at DJ for geting whistled and not protecting his player.  It seems the refs like to pick one of our bigs and get foul happy on them off the ball.

Overall, the officials were charge happy.  We probably gave up more bonus FT's than usual because of DJ's quick 5 fouls but nothing too crazy.  We got to the basket a number of times, VT just didnt foul s.  

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Waka

December 2nd, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^

At first I thought the 4th on DJ was weak, but didn't see a replay and then Beilein proceeded to rip into DJ instead of the refs. Based mostly on Belein's reaction, I chalked it up as a good call that I didn't have a clear view of, but maybe I'm putting to much blind faith into Belein.

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Boner Stabone

December 1st, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^

I am very concerned about this hoops season.  I thought this would be a solid year finishing in the upper half of the B1G.  However,  after the last week I have changed my expectations to at most a bubble team with likely NIT.  

 

This team has no leaders and no fire when it is crunch time.  I basically saw a team turtle last night down the stretch.

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Stringer Bell

December 1st, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^

It has more to do with it than lack of leadership or fire. Its more a lack of talent. There is one player on this team who may make a NBA roster and that's Wagner, and for some reason he continues to split minutes with Donnal. This is where recruiting is important, especially in basketball. Unfortunately not every 3 star recruit turns into a NBA player

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ijohnb

December 1st, 2016 at 2:26 PM ^

goes beyond talent though.  The good Beilein teams had talent, yes, but they were also crafty and opportunistic, and they played with fire.  I know that "playing with fire" is almost worthy of eye roll (or a jack off motion and fart noise, +1 above), but it really is something tangible and this team appears to be lacking, big time, in that department.  There is no attitude, there is no aggressiveness, screw it, there is no swagger.  Not even from Irvin, and when Irvin was a freshman he had swagger even if he was airballing a 3, there was an inherent self-belief.  This team has none of that, and with the exception of a 2 week period at the end of last year, they haven't in about two years.  They don't believe in themselves, and it makes it really hard to believe in them as fans.

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LSAClassOf2000

December 1st, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^

One of the main contributors to last night's collapse sits right in the stat line too - 

FG% in the first half was 55.2%, and in the second, it fell to 40%

3FG% was 50.0% in the first half, and that tanked to 23.1% in the second.

What that means is that eFG% fell from 75% to 45% across halves. Unless we're playing the bottom of the KenPom pile, it's hard to win going cold like that. 

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Johnson12lil

December 1st, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^

Our offense is based on shooting three pointers. This is why we will never be a good rebounding team because nobody is down low to get them. And we will always shoot very little free throws. Typically a player gets fouled attacking the hoop. Beilein is a good coach. But I won't shed a tear when he leaves.

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ST3

December 1st, 2016 at 2:03 PM ^

When you miss a three pointer, the ball is just as likely to carom long. The problem we've had in the past with rebounding was playing 6'4" Novak at the 4 or a not very physical Irvin at the 4. Donnal and Wagner have to be more aggressive going after rebounds. Now that DJ is at the 4, we should be doing better rebounding. I saw him go up for a rebound last night and he was a good foot and a half above everyone else on the floor. He's got length and hops, just need to keep him on the floor.

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Stay.Classy.An…

December 1st, 2016 at 1:52 PM ^

I didn't get his subs at all yesterday. Wagner was dominating inside and was the reason we had built the lead back up in the 2nd half. Donnal is just not a solid backup and I would bet he doesn't get asked to come back next year. I'm sure he's a great kid, but his game is lacking. Between him and DJ Wilson (who has improved), I have never seen two guys who get the ball stolen or knocked away from them on rebounds more. Also, and this is just me complaining. I hate it when players commit obvious fouls in front of the ref and then act like they didn't do anything. Wilson literally did this every time he fouled someone, of which, only one he had a legit beef on.



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ReegsShannon

December 1st, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^

Refs called the game very tight for both teams. A lot of the disparity resulted from Va Tech getting 6 FTs on offensive rebounding fouls committed by DJ. I actually think that Michigan was driving the ball decently for a lot of the game, but Va Tech was always late to contest shots and only got in a token attempt at a block. So most of our attempts at the rim were fairly easy and not the kind of shots that are gonna draw fouls.

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charblue.

December 1st, 2016 at 2:13 PM ^

line under Beilein because Michigan's offense is not about going to the basket and being physical. And the bottom line is, if you aren't taking it to the hole, you aren't going to get foul calls. Michigan is a perimeter shooting team. And the officiating crew last night wasn't from the Big Ten.

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Michifornia

December 1st, 2016 at 2:23 PM ^

But I believe there is a direct correlation between being able to get to the basket and number of foul shots.  MAAR is really our only legit guy who can drive to the basket.  Wagner can on occasion but that usually depends more on the pass and/or situation.  Irvin thinks he can, but is very limited.  VT had a couple slashers that could get to the rim and we couldn't stop them.  Had nothing to do with officiating!!

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DowntownLJB

December 1st, 2016 at 2:32 PM ^

i thought several of the fouls called against Wilson (in particular) were ticky-tacky & weak.  It was annoying.  But so are basketball threads on this site, generally, so I mostly avoid them these days.  

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