OT: Talking Cars Tuesday: Open Floor

Submitted by Michigan Arrogance on August 22nd, 2023 at 7:56 AM

Last week of OT, so I thought returning to TCT would be fitting. I wasn't going to have a specific topic but maybe a finance spin can provide a starting point.

  • Are you looking now? Purpose/plan of attack for the search?
  • With rates being sky high, has that affected your purchase plans?
    • Considering a lease? Shorter/longer term? Pulling more cash for the down payment?
  • Has work from home (WFH) or return to office (RTO) affected your purchase plans?
  • Pending UAW strike in Sept (I think the vote to auth. strike is this week?) - how does that affect your timeline for purchase?

 

 

Grampy

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:06 AM ^

When I read the post title, I thought it might refer to tales of auto ownership where floorboards were rusted away, yielding the "Fred Flintstone" cockpit design.  I had one such vehicle in my UM student days, a 1969 Toyota Corona Deluxe, with the optional Toyoglide 2-speed automatic transmission.  It had an unkillable driveline, but the floorboards, not so much.

LB

August 22nd, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^

If you're going to go by Grampy then you should know full well that vehicles had removable floorboards in the past. Among other things it allowed for ready access to the Master Cylinder as one example. Not only could they rot, but they could be misplaced as well.

Carpetbagger

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:29 AM ^

I'm assuming rates are high but the used car resale values have been a blessing. WFH (for now) so sold my commute car a couple years ago for 80% of what I paid for it. Just recently traded in my wife's Blazer for a Hybrid, and only had to write a check for $7k.

Can't imagine that strike is going to be short, given what the union is asking for. 

Midukman

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^

I’m looking to replace the wife’s Nissan rogue. It’s an 18 but we’ve owned it since new and I enjoy being a backyard mechanic so it’s immaculate. Hers is a midnight edition so it’s really a sharp suv that you don’t see more than 1 of in the meijer parking lot. They came out with the same suv in a 23 and I considered it, but even with excellent credit the interest rate is still outrageous. My 21 setting in the drive was purchased at 1.9% and I can’t bring myself to burn money just to have a new car when we’re not those type of people. I was raised in a family that took care of what they had and made it last. 

GoBlue96

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^

I lease our two cars but I'm probably paying less now than I did 10 years ago for comparable cars.  The combination of higher residual values and equity in lease turn ins are keeping the lease rates low for now.  WFH has changed my annual miles from 15-18k per year to around 12.  I drive to the office 3 days a week.  

lilpenny1316

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:44 AM ^

I'm considering trading in my 2017 Chrysler Pacifica for a newer model. We also have a Nissan Quest which fits our family. My wife and I have five kids, but the oldest is two years away from college and the second oldest is a freshman in H.S. I'm torn between trading in for a new Pacifica or a lease, since we are going to be downsizing in a couple years. 

I've considered a lease before, but always end up with certified used cars with low mileage. I think I'm in hold territory for at least another year since I've plunked $3K into the Pacifica, but I might jump for the right offer. 

S.G. Rice

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^

I occasionally think about trading in my 2018 Pacifica, but I suspect that between the price increases (I got a really good deal when I bought) and higher interest rates (miss you 2.5% for 6 years) my payment would nearly double.  Guess that means I'm going to drive it until it dies and hopefully have years of no payments so that when it does I can pay cash for something used.

S.G. Rice

August 22nd, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^

I'll be interested to see how long Chrysler keeps producing the Pacifica.  Sales are robust - way up this year and they sold nearly 100k in 2022.  But with the death of the 300, it'll be the only vehicle with a Chrysler nameplate.  I would expect to hang around for a while, given that it's still a very good platform and a lot of costs have been recovered, but auto companies make inexplicable decisions all the time.

And of course an extended strike could kill lots of things.

Hail-Storm

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^

We own our family car (explorer) that needs to last for another 4-5 years with minimal maintenance.  Wife is off her lease in 2 years.  Was thinking of getting a jeep so kids have a car to drive to high school that is paid off. Just worried about prices in general.  After we got the explorer the redesign jumped prices over $10,000 for an equivalent model.  Not sure how anyone is affording all these new cars. 

XM - Mt 1822

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^

we own older, salvage 1-ton trucks i buy at auction and fix up.  no payments, no fuss.  maybe someday i'll get something nicer, but that seems to be years away for this season of my life. 

and a hat-tip to our friend jeepinben, the high priest of TCT for so many threads over the years.  cheers, ben.  

St Joe Blues

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:27 AM ^

I pay cash for used cars and drive them until they croak. One is always available for out of town trips (my wife's) and mine is for in town driving. We're getting to the point of looking to replace mine and get a replacement for her. I've been holding off as long as possible since all the "experts" said last year that used car prices will be coming down. I haven't seen that yet. Oh well, we'll just keep putting cash aside until the right deal comes along.

One life change is that 3 of our 4 kids are now out of the house. It gives you more options when looking for 3 passengers instead of 6.

Wally Llama

August 22nd, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^

Paying cash is this right way to buy cars. Financing a depreciating asset is a great way to waste money. It's tough to get out of the car payment cycle/trap - especially with leases - but being free from car payments is magic for one's budget. And earning the interest on what you save for a car instead of paying interest on what you owe on a car feels pretty good, too.

Midukman

August 22nd, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^

No they haven’t come down. I’d consider new if they’d knock some cash off the sticker price for the dry pounding the bank would give me. No such luck. Meanwhile the same sales lady I bought my car from calls me twice a week to see if I’m still interested. I’m interested for sure, but not keen on paying 10k more than I would have 3 yrs ago. 

JeepinBen

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^

I've had my 2015 GTI since new and I can't seem to find a good reason to replace it. It's the longest I've owned a car by far and the fewest miles as well thanks to WFH. I want a Mk8 Golf R, but I don't need to do anything, so I'll wait until I can get one with the better interior (MY 2024) and without paying $5-10K over sticker. 

JeepinBen

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^

It's been an awesome car. At least B+ at everything. Fits a car seat well, is fun especially with the stick, gets good gas mileage, easy to park, etc etc etc. 

Saying nothing about either man as a person, but my random "car brag" is that both Mark Zuckerberg and Jeremy Clarkson own(ed) Mk7 GTIs as daily drivers. They have money to get anything. 

HighBeta

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:30 AM ^

Family and I are, thankfully, all set for local and road trip cars.

Have been hunting for a winter beater/hauler for Junior's use at his new home. Finding nothing worth buying right now as used car and truck prices are still ridiculous. This should change, for cash buyers at least, once the reality of higher borrowing costs filters more into used car purchase negotiations.

Also. Used car inventories should also start to expand (dropping prices) once new car sales revert back to some semblance of nomalcy post the Covid related production issues.

Strange days indeed. What's next? Cats and dogs living together? Mass hysteria?

S.G. Rice

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^

I have an older Jeep that will be sold soon (07 Commander) and it's been interesting looking at Facebook Marketplace and other online sites to see what the market looks like.  I was surprised that there seems to be a decent supply - maybe it's just not a popular model - and prices don't seem to be out of line.  Maybe it's different if you're selling a Grand Cherokee or Accord or Explorer or something.

Wolverine In Exile

August 22nd, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^

We're still seeing the effect of all the SUVs and trucks that were taken out of commission during Cash For Clunkers. Those late 90s to mid 2000s models that would be on market now as low end used cars keeping overall supply high and prices lower (especially for family movers and work trucks) are all gone. I'm guessing it'll take another 2-5 years to get that completely out of the system. 

AWAS

August 22nd, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^

My 2006 4Runner with 225K miles will eventually fail and need to be replaced (won't it?).  Since I WFH, I'm only putting on 6K miles/year, so the time horizon keeps getting extended.  I prefer to buy cars that have depreciated 40-50%, so looking in the 3-5 year old category.  Haven't found anything compelling that I can pay cash for.  I make a monthly car payment to myself, so maybe I'll keep saving until the current vehicle meets its demise.

 

Midukman

August 22nd, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^

My 21 Altima replaced a 2010 which my 17 yr old now has. I wouldn’t even have bought myself a new car but March of 2020 had the dealers shitting bricks. I walked out almost 5k under sticker and a 1.9% interstate rate through nmac. Kind of a no brainer really. The only thing bad is how neurotic I am with my cars had me wiping the dam thing down twice a day. The newness wore off and now it’s just twice a week. Factor in my company gives me 65 cents a mile for work and it’s almost free. 

Don

August 22nd, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^

I've got an '07 4Runner with a bit over 192K. Bought it almost 7 years ago with 169K, so I'm only putting about 3.5K miles per year on it. Body and interior are in good shape. It's got the V8 so the gas mileage sucks, but since I'm WFH it doesn't kill me. It's paid for and since it's the perfect car for my needs the idea of taking on debt for something newer is a non-starter. I hope I can get it to at least 225K.

AWAS

August 22nd, 2023 at 8:17 PM ^

At your current pace, that's almost 10 more years.  Who knows what the market might look like then!  That engine is one of the best Toyota have ever made, as long as you take care of the service.  I had a 2003 Tundra with the same engine, and my younger brothers put well over 300K on it before one of the damn fools wrecked it.

Don

August 23rd, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^

The smog pump on it went bad a few months ago so I've got check engine lights on, but three different mechanics told me that it doesn't harm the engine so I've put off fixing it since they have to take the top off the engine off in order to get to it. Earlier 4Runners had the pump located outside of the engine so it was a much easier—and cheaper—fix.

One advantage of the 4Runner V8s is that it's full-time 4WD. I live in a hilly neighborhood in A2 and 2WD vehicles constantly fail to get up our own street in slippery winter conditions. I've never gotten stuck anywhere.

 

Slim Whitman

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:00 AM ^

Getting my oil changed at Quick Lube next to the Ford dealer's used car lot caused me to trade in my 21 GT for a 22 Mach1 with 2300 miles. Lucky enough to have a daily, so the seat time in the sports car is usually high value.

JBLPSYCHED

August 22nd, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^

There have been several threads about EVs over the months/years. We bought a 2022 Kia Niro EV just b/4 New Year's 2022, got the full $7500 federal tax credit (pre-Inflation Reduction Act changes in rules) + $500 local tax credit and we love it for localish driving. Highly recommended if you can find one.

Meanwhile I wanted to share an article from a few months ago in The Guardian that Bret Stephens of the NYTs linked to yesterday:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

Written by a (former?) actor/early adopter who seriously questions the eco value of current EVs because of the size and weight and mineral composition of current generation batteries. I know these questions and concerns have been raised many times before on the Blog but frankly I wondered if they were legit or not (e.g. could have been resistance to change arguments).

But this article really laid it out well and I found it quite convincing.

Nickel

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^

Not currently looking. My 2011 Silverado has 155k miles on it but runs perfectly so I expect to get at least another 100k out of it.

Plan at that point (5-7 years out) is to just pay cash for something (new or used depending on market conditions at the time), and drive it for the subsequent 20 years.

I've done WFH for a good decade+ prior to covid so that hasn't changed my purchase decisions. It's really just a matter of utility and needing an open truck bed for some regular hauling things I do.

drjaws

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^

1. no. i’m driving my truck until it dies (currently 144k miles) because i love that truck and it’s been paid off. i think i can get 4-5 more years of 20k miles a year on it 

2. no (see #1)

3. i have worked from home a total of 5 days since covid hit, and three of them were because i had contractors coming over to do estimates, so no

4. it doesn’t 

BlueMan80

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^

I have a 2018 Audi A5 with only 33K miles on it.  With mileage that low, yes, I'm a pretty good candidate for an electric vehicle.  I'm going to watch the market of new EV roll outs over the next few years.  The 2025 model year might be my point to jump back into the market.

If you think auto loan rates are bad now, you should have seen what they were in 1983 when I bought my first new car.

mgoblue78

August 22nd, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^

I've got a 2008 A5 with 125K on the odometer. Love it, and plan on keeping it until it falls apart. I'm not sure I will even replace it - my wife's 2013  VW GLI has only 20K on it. We may just go down to one car. If we decide to stay with two cars, the next one will probably be a toy, electric or not.

GRBluefan

August 22nd, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^

My family has two cars free and clear...no car payments is just an amazing feeling.  And while the cars are getting up in miles (130k on my 16 340i and 80k on her 18 Expedition), they both are running beautifully and have presented no problems outside of regular maintenance (which we are good about keeping up on).

Even though I am a 'car guy' and have historically loved refreshing the ride every few years...at this point our plan is to drive them until they will no longer drive, so to speak.  Whenever we do get another car, it will likely be electric...but i've said that my threshold for buying myself an electric is 500/20.  Meaning 500 mile range and 20 minute full charge.  Seems like we are a ways away from that.  

the_dude

August 22nd, 2023 at 11:15 AM ^

I buy used and keep my cars long term. I bought a used 2018 4Runner before rates went crazy, and I have planned to keep it long term. I will probably give it to my 7 year old when he turns 16. My wife is leasing an Odyssey and will need to get a new car within the next year. We haven't looked at anything as far as inventory and rates so we will need to check that out, but I assume she will lease again. 

mp2

August 22nd, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^

I was looking at a mid-size truck for next spring. Some factors changed my mind, and I ended up getting a Duramax 3.0 GMC this past Friday, because it gets better mileage than a mid-size and my BIL works for GM, so I got a discount and subsequent 3-year loan at 0.9%. I got it now because we have tickets to opening week. Obviously this isn't true, but you can't tailgate without a tailgate. Will use it for camping and hauling for the DIY I do around the home. Will still use the Civic hatchback for commuting.

MgoHillbilly

August 22nd, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^

I got an ev. The payment is less than what I was spending on diesel to commute. Another bonus is that my diesel will last longer as it's only needed for cross country towing.

Gameboy

August 22nd, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^

Looking to replace 2 cars which are over 10 years old right now. 

I always buy cash. Never borrow money to buy something that depreciates.

This is not that hard. Buy a 3 year old car and keep it for 10 years. Use the first 5 years to pay for the loan and use the following 5 years to save the payments you would have made. And you will never have to borrow money to buy a car.