OT - Start of a new era for the Tigers
In a noon press conference today, Al Avila announced that the Tigers would be calling up three of their top six prospects. Starting pitchers Tarik Skubal and Casey Mize will be making their debuts on Tuesday and Wednesday, and infielder Isaac Paredes will also be called up, although when he'll make his debut isn't known yet. It's felt like a really long rebuild after nearly a decade of being competitive and this seems like it could be a turning point. For those who don't follow baseball/prospects closely, here's how Skubal, Mize and Paredes rank, according to the MLB Pipeline:
Skubal - 50th in MLB, 5th in Tigers farm system
Mize - 8th in MLB, 2nd in Tigers farm system
Paredes - 6th in Tigers farm system; Was in MLB Pipeline top 100 last season, likely just outside of it now
August 17th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
About fucking time, I don't know what he was waiting for with the shitty starting pitching we've had except for Turnbull.
This season is the perfect time to bring up those young arms and give them some exposure.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
I wondered as well, though I kept reading that part of the reason was they didn't want to lose a year of control over the players. That's...not a great reason but I guess it's how baseball works.
Anyway, excited to see these young guys have a shot.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:24 PM ^
About fucking time, I don't know what he was waiting for with the shitty starting pitching we've had except for Turnbull.
In a normal season, delaying prospects for two-ish weeks kicks their free agency back a year. Don't know what that number is during coronaseason, but I'm assuming the Tigers wanted to cover their asses, just in case.
August 17th, 2020 at 6:38 PM ^
The CoVid shortened season meant they only had to wait a few days to kick back the free agency year. We’ve been well past that for some time now.
August 17th, 2020 at 7:13 PM ^
Super Two deadline is expected to fall around now, so that's likely the timing.
August 17th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
Y E S ! ! !
I agree, it's about time! Right now, even though the Tigers are still near .500, the starting pitching is a stinkin' mess. If you subtract out what lefty Spencer Turnbull has done, easily the worst ERA in the league for starting pitching.
August 17th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
Boyd has been a disaster this year and anyone expecting better out of the other guys they've used should have known better. Turnbull has looked good though. Rotation has a ton of upside moving forward. Fulmer, Mize, Skubal, Manning, Turnbull. Yes please.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^
Don’t forget about Franklin Perez and Alex Faedo. Perez was the ‘prize’ in the Justin Verlander trade. He has spent more time on the IL than the mound so far. However, he is another top tier arm if he can stay healthy.
maybe Avila can make a trade or two in order to bolster the young positional players in their system.
August 17th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
Riley Greene!...Riley Greene!... Riley Greene!! The next Mike Trout. I know this because I have watched baseball for 50 years and have seen his swing on YouTube. Qualifies me as a seer.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
I will always wonder what the top offer was for Boyd a year ago, because in hindsight, it should have been taken. Hope he figures it out so either he is part of the rebuild or part of some future trade.
August 17th, 2020 at 3:12 PM ^
I said last off-season they should have either taken the best offer for Boyd or shifted him to the bullpen. He's always been a 2-pitch guy (fastball/slider) with not enough difference in the velocity of his pitches. Can't wait forever for Boyd to develop a curve and/or change-up and become a quality starter, and yet, those 2 pitches are still essentially his entire arsenal this season.
August 17th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
*Righty Spencer Turnbull. Regardless, yes. He has been the only highlight for the starters.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
+1
I stand corrected, I had 2nd thoughts several minutes ago and was hoping to get it corrected before someone noticed.
August 17th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
How you let this starting pitching get eaten alive by The Indians when you could have had a potentially game changing pitcher come up is straight up incompetence by Avila
August 17th, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^
Not claiming Al Avila is the next coming of Branch Rickey but really, what the Tigers have gone through had to happen. Dave Dombrowski mortgaged the future to get Mike Ilitch a championship before he died. And Dombrowski did a gold medal job of mortgaging. Avila has done what he had to do. And it has been ugly. How could it not be? With the Zimmermann contract done at the end of the season we are left with Miggy's ludicrous contract and a strong farm system. The three brought up today do not include Manning, Greene, Torkelson or Faedo. Avila has made his share of errors but he is far from incompetent.
August 17th, 2020 at 6:42 PM ^
This. I’m not nominating Avila for any GM of the Year awards or anything. But At the end of the day, we have the #1 ranked farm system in baseball right now. As you mentioned, the losing is something we absolutely had to go through as an organization to build the foundation for the future.
You’d like to have seen a few trades work out better (Perez staying healthy for example) and in hindsight you’d like to have let a couple guys go (Fulmer and Boyd) but Avila has still build a pretty strong foundation.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
I hope this doesn't effect Zimmerman's playing time. He's been such a bright spot over these hard times. Worth every penny.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:35 PM ^
"Worth a penny."
There. I fixed it for you.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^
Good shit Jed! I'm beginning to put a little faith in Avila. Tigers are going to be good again very soon!
August 17th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
For those that are grousing about the wait....Paredes is being brought up on the very day that makes his Super 2 (eligible for arbitration a year early) grey situation due to the Corona season. Skubal and Mize are being brought up on the first and second days that Super 2 should not be a consideration.
August 17th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
Having a guy that’s 50th in the MLB and 5th in your farm system seems like a good thing.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Absolutely. Avila has been far from perfect (bad FA deals to guys like Zimmermann, held on to JD Martinez and Matt Boyd too long), but he has done a solid job of restocking the farm system. Their other top prospects (Torkelson and Manning) could reasonably debut next year. Light at the end of the tunnel if the prospects pan out. Plus they still have a few wild card guys like Jake Rogers, Daz Cameron, Alex Faedo, Joey Wentz, etc.
August 17th, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
When the young players develop and Tigers need to make a trade or free agent signings let’s hope Avila isn’t the one to do it. Watching him sign Pelfrey, Zimmerman, Ross, Moore, Nova, Harrison, Mercer, Cron, the pitchers have been awful at best, and most of the guys Avila picks end up hurt anyway, I hope Chris Ilitch makes the move to get a closer in the front office when it’s time cause Avila is not the guy.
August 17th, 2020 at 6:48 PM ^
To be fair, a handful of the players you listed weren’t intended to be “free agent signings.” They were merely guys we needed to fill holes so we could field a team while we tried to lose. If they played well, they’re trade bait (like Fiers). If not, we’re trying to be bad anyway.
I’m not going to sit here and criticize free agent signings that were made with the intent of still losing.
August 18th, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
Ok fair but the trades he made to get prospects for the future, Verlander Martinez Upton Kinsler have netted next to nothing. Also the timing or inability to trade Fulmer and Boyd because of high demands or whatever, lead me to believe we need better judgement in the front office or a closer as I stated. Avila inabilities have slowed the rebuild.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
I'm a bit surprised Skubal was called up, as he just resumed training in Toledo less than 2 weeks ago after being sidelined due to Covid-19 since the start of summer training.
Even then, I'm extremely excited to see him called up. Several scouts and analysts who have watched his quick rise through the Tigers farm system have said Skubal just may end up being the most talented of the top 3 starters (Manning, Mize, and Skubal) in the system, even though he wasn't drafted nearly as high as the other two.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
Still waiting for (3rd Place in the) AL Rookie of the Year, Matt Nokes, to pan out.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^
Well, he did catch Michigan Man Jim Abbott's no-no in 1993. That might have been the pinnacle of Matty's baseball career - his aviation career though, really took off (or landed, depending on your perspective) in 2000.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
Was hoping to catch these guys in Toledo quite a bit this summer (before COVID) obviously. Will always be the season of what ifs for the Mud Hens as these guys would have dominated.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:45 PM ^
Excited to see the future and I am down for 1 more good year of tanking in the hopes of getting 1 more top notch prospect for the rebuild. A middle infielder would be great to balance out the Pitching prospects and Greene and Tork.
August 17th, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^
Especially in a season that is more about getting some reps in for next season, assuming that one isn't truncated or otherwise effed somehow, why the hell wouldn't you get your prospects some time in the majors?
August 17th, 2020 at 3:01 PM ^
A lot of people here shitting on Al Avila and accusing him of incompetence do not have a good grasp of how MLB contracts and service time work.
August 17th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
His service time had been passed. He was available last weekend. Don’t try and be the smartest guy in the room if you’re not.
August 17th, 2020 at 3:53 PM ^
Super 2. The cutoff day for that is apparently either today or tomorrow depending how things are rounded with the shortened season.
August 17th, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
1. Nothing I said was incorrect. People were shitting on the org at the beginning of the season for not calling Mize and even Tork up on opening day, despite the fact that would waste service time in a 60 game season where the Tigers werent expected to go anywhere.
2. Him coming up a week after his service time issue being passed doesnt exactly prove me wrong. Just because they didnt do it the exact day doesnt mean it wasnt a big consideration. And it happening that soon after kinda confirms that.
3. Like the poster below you said, Super 2 was in consideration as well, and he needed to be on the roster less than 47/67 days to avoid becoming Super 2 Arbitration eligible. Weirdly....Mize coming up today would give him 41 days of service this season. Huh.
4. Listen to your own advice, bud.
August 17th, 2020 at 7:18 PM ^
They would be lucky to get a player that would be eligible for that! What happens if it changes your outlook moving forward. You might be looking to go a different way in free agency, you might be able to move on from some other players. If the tigers have to pay him in arbitration then so be it. They would be LUCKY to get there.
August 17th, 2020 at 4:34 PM ^
My surprise is that Matt Manning is not one of the 3.
August 17th, 2020 at 5:09 PM ^
This is exciting news. I can't wait for tomorrow!
Still hoping for a tanked season though just for one of those Vandy pitchers. With Zim & Prince off the cap & Miggy the year after could create a perfect storm and make it fun getting back to Comerica.
August 17th, 2020 at 5:35 PM ^
For those who are curious, here is the breakdown of the top 6 Tigers' prospects:
- Spencer Torkelson (#7 overall in MLB, infielder. Just drafted, probably won't reach MLB for another 2 years).
- Casey Mize (#8 overall, RHP).
- Matt Manning (#25 overall, RHP).
- Riley Greene (#32 overall, OF. Drafted last year out of high school, probably another couple years before he reaches the MLB).
- Tarik Skubal (#50 overall, LHP).
- Isaac Paredes (#124 overall, infielder).
The top of the Tigers' farm system is as strong as it has ever been. Chances are that not all these guys will pan out, but if the idea is to give yourself as many chances to hit gold, the Tigers have done a good job of positioning themselves to do that.
August 17th, 2020 at 6:54 PM ^
Build your core with a few prospects, sprinkle in some free agent signings and trade away a couple prospects that remain and you’re back to being a contender.
A lot of fans don’t consider the entire process. Unless you’re a team like the Yankees and have the ability to buy yourself to championships every year, it has to be done starting with a strong farm system. The Tigers have gone from one of the worst farm systems when Avila took over to being ranked with the #1 farm system.
Avila is far from perfect, or even great. But he’s done exactly what needed to be done.
August 17th, 2020 at 9:13 PM ^
Maybe we can beat the Cleveland Baseball Club now?
August 18th, 2020 at 8:38 PM ^
I got to know Casey Mize and his family a little bit. My youngest son went to school with him and played on a 9 year old travel ball team with him. There is some great baseball talent down here, and he was one of the best I've seen. He will be ready for the moment. Hoping he has a long career with my favorite team.