to play football, not to play trumpet
OT: Ron Artest Pulls A Cheap Shot, Gets Ejected
Who's Ron Artest? I don't see anyone by that name on the Lakers' roster.
EDIT: Yikes, that's dirty. Commence all the world peace jokes you can muster.
And it happened on Earth Day, no less. That's just delicious. :P
I'm not even shocked, the guy has mental issues.
That was an epic cheap shot. He is looking at way more than 5 games in my opinion.
I honestly don't know if he'll be allowed to play for the rest of this season. That was one of the dirtiest things I've seen in the NBA AND Harden may be out for a while.
That move was definitely not very peaceful.
Maybe he meant "whirled peas".
I still can't believe his jersey really says "World Peace."
ass. He clearly still has mental issues.
That's a nasty spot to take an elbow too. A concussion is likely for Harden, and I wouldn't be surprised with at least 5 games for MWP.
Given his history and today's perception of the danger of head injuries, I wouldn't be surprised if he's done for the playoffs.
In a December 2009 Sporting News interview, Artest admitted that he had led a "wild" lifestyle as a young player, and that he drank Hennessy cognac in the locker room at halftime when he was playing for the Chicago Bulls at the beginning of his NBA career.
Artest was suspended for three games in 2003 for destroying a TV camera at Madison Square Garden, and for four games the same year for a confrontation with Miami Heat coach Pat Riley. He was also suspended for two games in the early 2004–05 season by Pacers coach Rick Carlisle after he allegedly asked for a month off because he was tired from promoting an R&B album for the groupAllure on his production label.
...was a bad choice.
you failed to mention the stupidest thing he's ever done. Stalking up into the stands in Detroit and punching a fan in the face who happened to be next to the guy who threw a beer. This single act destroyed the Pacers until this year. What a douche.
Suspend him for the Lakers playoff run? Guy has a history of doing crazy shit obviously.
hahah at least his last suspension yieled the beautiful Ron Artest Rap Album....
....maybe he'll be a politician after this one?
Changing your name doesn't change who you are. That was an epic and totally uncalled for cheap shot. He should be suspended for the duration of the postures at least
He'll proclaim that without Jesus, none of this would be possible. Or at the very least, frequent his pyschiatrist more often.
Not so much Peace in this man's mind, although the name change was a lovely idea. Isn't this guy competing with Cromartie for the largest brood? Fine example of a father.
Don't know any ron artest u talking bout meta world peace?
Us don't talk.
You can see the crazy in his eyes when he is staring at Ibaka.
If you look at Harden's movements before he got clocked, he was purposefully pushing Meta from the blindside. NBA should take this into account when they assess the penalty.
If you look at Harden's movements before he got clocked, he was purposefully pushing Meta from the blindside. NBA should take this into account when they assess the penalty.
Clearly no push from the backside. In fact, Harden is retreating as Artest advances.
If you look at Harden's movements before he got clocked, he was purposefully pushing Meta from the blindside. NBA should take this into account when they assess the penalty.
Posted 4 times and each time is more stupid than the previous. So Harden bumps into him so he can elbow him MMA style? You must work for the Freep
Oh boy, you went all Condescending Wonka right there.
The nba wont all the see is the clock in the head. I dont think it was intentional. It so happened harden was there when artest was celebrating a big play.
Harden had already pumped into him, so Artest knew he was there and he swung anyway. If this happened on the street it would be assault. Artest is a thug, has always been a thug, and offers nothing of value to the world.
An over the top comment frozen for posterity.
...Artest's enormous value as a cautionary tale.
Listen, if Harden, or any other man, pumped into me I would be livid and swing away also. But that's just me, toilet duck. Basketball player formerly known as Artest is really just a liability out there comparable to Mike Tyson. If I were in the NBA I wouldn't want to play on the same court as him. That shit could ruin my livelihood.
You don't swing your elbow like that, in that situation, unless its intentional.
Looked to me like Harden was there and put his hands when it became clear MWP was going to run into him. But even if it happened the way you think it did, it does not justify what was done. NBA should not take that into account.
That's just dumb. Harden's trying to get to the near side of the court to get the inbound pass. MWP has every opportunity to just slide by him. That kind of collision happens 75 times in an NBA game without anyone firing an ear-level elbow.
Artest is a washed-up joke. I hope he gets his when all is said and done, and that deservingly involves more than a 5 game suspension.
Why don't they just kick him outta the league already? Honestly, they guy clearly has no self-control, he's a danger to other players, and he should just be banned from playing.
My thoughts exactly ...
Anyone else hear the idiotic fans in the background?
That should boost the NBA ratings. What a jackass.
Anybody else flashback to Ricky Mahorn's shot to Mark Price's head way back in the day?
is way too weak and incomplete a term for the human waste that Artest is
I agree. The NBA should only let him return if he changes his name to Waste Of Sperm. That seems like a more accurate name for this fuck up.
Even though this was on the basketball court and whatnot, when does one breach the threshold between suspension and assualt?
One area where we lag behind Canada, IMO.
multiple areas. If we had Michigan football, your country would be useless to me.
Disclaimer: I am a Laker and Artest fan.
Not to sound like I am taking Artest's side, but why would Harden get in the way of Artest? It most likely was an accident that Harden was going towards the corner to get the inbounds pass, but I can see how Artest would think that it was intentional. Regardless, Artest should be suspended at least for the rest of the year.
Ok, neg away, I'm sure my post will be twisted every way imaginable...
Sorry what is the point you're making? That World Peace is less to blame because Harden put himself in that situation? Or that you are amazed that anyone would get close enough to World Peace during a basketball game to get themselves elbowed in the side of the head? Not sure what you're getting at here...
The point is that if Harden did get in his way on purpose, he needs to accept some of the blame. How much blame? Maybe one percent, but either way, if you want to be annoying on the court, you run the risk of getting hurt.
Once again, I'm not condoning what Artest did, but at the same time, you have to be pretty dumb to do something like that (assuming that Harden did do it on purpose). Because I wouldn't get in Artest's way, would you?
How many times do unintentional bumps like this happen in a game, without even causing a foul on one team or the other? 30? 40? Yes Hardin did contribute somewhat to this event occurring by being in that location and bumping MWP, but he's nowhere near the proximate cause (also to blame: his automaker that manufactured his car that allowed him to drive to the stadium, and his choice of NBA as profession).
This logic is extremely flawed, and your last sentence, rather than acquitting MWP, would almost seem to argue that he is too dangerous to remain in the NBA at all...
"How many times do unintentional bumps like this happen in a game"
Talk about extremely flawed logic. How do you know it was unintentional?
"also to blame: his automaker that manufactured his car that allowed him to drive to the stadium, and his choice of NBA as profession"
"rather than acquitting MWP, would almost seem to argue that he is too dangerous to remain in the NBA at all..."
Who said I was on Artest's side? You have a dangerous habit of making assumptions. Do you not remember me saying that Artest should be suspended for at least the rest of the year?
It's fair to call it unintentional when the same thing happens on half of made baskets.
Also, even if you replace 'unintentional' with 'intentional' or 'slightly malicious' or 'provocative' my point remains the same and MWP remains 100% the transgressor..
Really, so if I intentionally keep bumping into you, and you react to it, are you 100% the transgressor? Yes I know this may not be the same case as what happened between Artest and Harden, but I would just like clarification.
As is your explanation. It is great to see you digress to personal attacks, but don't worry about my feelings, your post says more about yourself than it does about me.
That any explanation for the many ways in which you fail to grasp the basic elements of basketball, culpability, physics, and common sense would be entirely futile.
Or you cannot explain your "point" so you hide behind a generic response.
I'll try to take this one because it seems like him calling you reasoning stupid isn't setting in. Your reasoning is moronic.
No, Harden didn't keep bumping into him all game, so that point is stupid as fuck. No, even if he actually kept lightly bumping into him, that wouldn't make him at any fault. That point is stupid as fuck. Your logic of "man, this guy is fuckin crazy...would you bump into him" is beyond the dumbest logic I've ever read on this sight. In the NBA, people bump into each other every play, after every made basket, on the way back to the huddle. People don't give elbows to the head causing concussions on every play. There is no excusing it. It wasn't an accident. He jumping around like an idiot, threw a horrible elbow to the temple because Harden was standing near him to get the ball, and he will be suspended for a very long time. It isn't as though his past points to this being an accident.
"No, Harden didn't keep bumping into him all game, so that point is stupid as fuck."
Never said he did, check your facts.
"No, even if he actually kept lightly bumping into him, that wouldn't make him at any fault."
Lightly bumping was never my argument.
"Your logic of "man, this guy is fuckin crazy...would you bump into him" is beyond the dumbest logic I've ever read on this sight."
So would you intentioanlly bump into Ron Artest? It seems you like many others here are glazing over the fact that I keep stating an assumption that Harden may have done it on purpose.
"There is no excusing it."
Never said Artest was not at fault.
Maybe you should have realized why no one else responded. Because there was nothing to go off of except my assumptions. I will give you credit though, at least you "tried".
Your second post started off saying if he bumped into him on purpose, he has to take some blame for getting elbowed in the head. No he doesn't.
It ends with you saying Harden was dumb for getting in Artest's way because he is crazy. That isn't an endorsment for Artest. It is proof that he is not mentally stable enough to play in a league that people bump into each other on purpose and accidentally all the time. In no way does this mean that Harden should accept any blame at all. When this same thing happens after nearly every play and no one normally gets concussed, that tells you that Artest is 100% to blame.
Your reasoning is horrid. And you are also coming off pretty dumb.
First of all, I could care less about your opinion of my intelligence. I knew I was in the minority and expected a lot of backlash for it. Could it be that my reasoning is horrid because you don't agree with it? Does it make you mad when others don't agree with you?
"Your second post started off saying if he bumped into him on purpose, he has to take some blame for getting elbowed in the head. No he doesn't."
Sounds like a difference of opinion. You really want to argue that? Let me save us both the time and tell you how it will end: no change of opinion.
"It ends with you saying Harden was dumb for getting in Artest's way because he is crazy."
I'm not going back to see exactly what I typed, but my implication was that Harden is dumb if he did that on purpose (somethong that you could have derived from many of my other posts).
"That isn't an endorsment for Artest. It is proof that he is not mentally stable enough to play in a league that people bump into each other on purpose and accidentally all the time."
This has been brought up several times, and everytime I have said that this is not my argument.
I'll ask this question again (I can't remember who I've asked it to, but I don't believe anyone has answered it). Would you ever intentional bump into someone you thought was unstable? Please show me how smart you are...
let me distill this:
your point - harden isn't entirely innocent in that he bumped into artest
the rest of humanity's point - artest's reaction is completely brutal, not acceptable within the league, and could/should leave him out of the playoffs as punishment.
ok there, I clarified.
You definitely did better than everyone else. But here it is again:
My point: IF Harden bumped Artest on purpose, he is not completely innocent. BUT, regardless it was completely brutal and unnecessary and ...
Everyone else's point: Artest is completely to blame even if they don't know anything other than what they saw in that 10 second clip.
If I elbow you in the head, then yes, I am 100% the transgressor. Mild intentional and unintentional contact is a part of the game of basketball.
I'll obviously agree with that, but you are not Artest and I just said react (I should have explicilty said shoved or pushed).
somewhere around 1000 times more than the provocation, the provocation becomes irrelevant.
Please link the site to calculate this...
Yeah, this was flamebait. Neg away.
you should consider whether being a Ron Artest fan is good for you.
I can distinguish between being a fan of someone and someone as role model. Can you?
has anything to do with seeing him as a role model. However, you have made a large number of posts on this thread, trying to mitigate his culpability, frequently going off on irrelevant tangents and taking shots at other posters. I'll give you credit for generally making better arguments than you have here today.
Artest is a punk. It's not easy to be a fan of punks, so you are trying too hard to see him some other way.
"However, you have made a large number of posts on this thread"
Almost all my posts have been responses to others.
"frequently going off on irrelevant tangents"
Sure, I'm the one who is the catalyst for the irrelevent tangents... /s
"and taking shots at other posters"
I'm pretty sure I took shots at others only after I was "attacked". But I could have jumped the gun, I am defending my point against at least 10 others.
"Artest is a punk. It's not easy to be a fan of punks, so you are trying too hard to see him some other way."
What other way am I trying to see him? I for one like to see both sides of a story. I have maintained that regardless of Harden's intent, Artest is almost fully to blame. I think you are trying to somehow use me as your outlet for your hatred of Artest. Were you at the Malice in the Palace? For what that's worth, I think Artest got screwed over on what happened there (yeah, I know, I'm an idiot for having a different opinion blah blah blah...).
OK, let's play the flawed logic game.
So if I punch someone in the face after every other made basket, it must be unintentional since it happens on half of made baskets? /s
Look, I really don't want to belabor this point anymore than I have. You can call it whatever you want, but only one person knows if Harden intentionally bumped Artest. So in my opinion, it is not fair to call it unintentional in this case without a disclaimer that it is an assumption.
It's all well and good to conjure up some kind of hypothetical situation where fisticuffs happen after every other basket, but that deals in a world that does not exist. The world that does exist is one where players bump into each other after baskets, because large men occupy a small space.
"Intent" is the wrong measure here, because it implies what was in Harden's head matters. It doesn't. What matters is the practice of NBA basketball as it is played, in which players bump into each other after baskets and they almost always go on their way without any confrontation. Harden's intent does not matter, because the type of contact he engaged in is part of the accepted practice of playing NBA basketball. Reacting to it, particularly with violence, is not.
Ok, so you're point is that Artest is 100% to blame? I am saying Harden might be 1% to blame...
"Intent" is the wrong measure here, because it implies what was in Harden's head matters. It doesn't.
I bet it mattered to Artest...
"Reacting to it, particularly with violence, is not."
I never said it did.
Yes, that's my point. I think he's 100% to blame because he is the one who transgressed the accepted practices of the NBA.
And Harden's intent couldn't matter to MWP, because he had no access to it. Intent is always internal unless it becomes manifest in speech or overt acts. His perception of Harden's intent mattered, but even if he perceived ill-intent, his response was so over the top as to place him 100% at blame.
"And Harden's intent couldn't matter to MWP, because he had no access to it."
What? If Artest thinks it was Harden's intent to bump into him, then I bet Artest felt it was justifiable to react the way that he did.
"His perception of Harden's intent mattered, but even if he perceived ill-intent, his response was so over the top as to place him 100% at blame."
If I saw someone intentionally bump into Ron Artest and get elbowed in the face, I would call that person a dumb ass. Would Artest still be greatly at fault? Of course. And please don't say "how do you know Harden did that on purpose". Because I don't know, my whole point is based off an assumption, so if my assumption is wrong, my point it moot (something you could have figured out 5 posts ago).
"If Artest thinks it was Harden's intent to bump into him, then I bet Artest felt it was justifiable to react the way that he did."
What "Artest felt" says nothing about Harden's intent, which, unless Harden was saying something that doesn't show up on camera, was entirely unspoken and thus hidden. What we can see is Artest's perception of physical contact that was utterly normal within an NBA game and what we can judge is whether than perception and his reaction was reasonable, which it clearly wasn't.
Sure, so how does this discredit anything I've previously said?
You've been consistently arguing that Harden's intent matters. I've been arguing it doesn't.
"You've been consistently arguing that Harden's intent matters."
Not exactly, I've been arguing that Harden's intent mattered to Artest. I do have a conditional argument based upon Harden's intent. But since I don't know Harden's intent, I have reserved judgement on how much blame Artest should receive.
Ah, I see, a frame of mind vs. reasonableness of actions difference.
I would have said the same thing too if I didn't have a good response...
edit: You do know we are talking about Ron Artest?
1% to blame because he ran into him? I mean come on man. You're not that nieve, are you? I bet if you ran into someone, and they KO'd you, you wouldn't be too happy and didn't think you were to blame either.
The problem isn't Harden running into Artest, or really even the elbow, it's Artest's track record. It's not like this type of behavior is new to him.
sign... read above.
Should have said ultimate cause, not proximate cause...
So I guess Nicole Simpson got in the way of OJ?
Well I guess my prediction came true. What logic are you referring to? When did I say Harden got what he deserved? I believe all I did way pose a different point of view, does that make you mad?
But honestly, you can't put any of this blame on Harden. This one is all on Artest.
Honestly did you watch the entire game? Honestly did you watch Artest and Harden through out the game? Honestly do you know if they have a history or don't like each other?
I honestly don't know the answer to any of these questions, so I honestly can't say this is entirely Artest's fault. Do I think this is 100% Artest's fault? Yes, but I honestly don't know for sure.
What if Harden was doing a lot of little things to get under Artest's skin thoughout the game? Did Harden deserve what he got, well no, but he can't be surprised that it happened (see assumption above) and he can't expect zero blame.
Unfortunately I do not possess answers to your questions, but I did count six "honestly"s in your post.
I honestly never asked you.
At least you're honest.
If they had a history with each other then it's even MORE likely Artest did it on purpose and more important to penalize him. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
Once again, another person late to the party, please reread my first post, maybe then you will understand why your post is worthless.
come on, at least leave a reason why you disagree...
additionally, why are you so scared about a difference of opinion?
I'd leave a reason, but I'm still trying to figure out your original point.
So your MO is to neg things you don't understand? I wish I was that simplistic...
I think jeff09 makes a very good point...maybe read it again?
When I started my reply to myself, no one had posted.
If he would have hit his chest with the left hand it would have been different. That would have been more if an accident. But he clearly wound up for his swing... I personally think its absolutely disgraceful to the game, especially since Harden was putting his hands up to let MWP know he was there and so he wouldn't run into him. I hope Stern suspends him indefinitely (maybe kicked out of the league due to his past history).
Were you replying to me? Because I don't remember opposing your statements.
I was adding to the conversation and it seems that from your other posts you were trying to defend the elbow because they may have a history.
Maybe we all should take a step away from our computers, phones, etc and let cooler heads prevail...
Woah... I'm not mad. I just didn't know how your reply applied to anything I said.
"it seems that from your other posts you were trying to defend the elbow because they may have a history."
Thank you for your clarification, but no, I am definitely not trying to defend the elbow. What I have been saying is that people can not go around doing annoying crap like get in the way of others and not expect any retribution. Am I saying Harden was doing this? No. Am I saying Harden got what he deserved if he was doing this? No. I'm just saying he shouldn't be surprised that Artest reacted if he indeed was doing it on purpose.
"Watch out we got a bad ass over here!"
I didn't catch this the first time, how exactly did you get butt hurt over what I said?
Did Ronny Artest change his name to Oscar?
What's up with the Metta World Peace thing... is that his real legal name now or just some stupid ploy? At least everyone knew not to take Chad "Ochocinco" seriously when he did it... is Ronny just copying him? Seriously, at least choose a cooler name... a la: Hehateme of the XFL. I'd go with Zeus... always thought that was an awesome name.
You mad bro?
Expect to get bumped.
If you bump someone, DON'T expect a roundhouse elbow to your head. (Unless you're playing Ron Artest. His momma called him Ron, I'm gonna call him Ron.)
FINALLY, a post I can agreed with. Thank you. You almost made my bad decision to post worthwhile.
Your bad decision was to KEEP posting.
You are probably right, I thought I was posting in a place that was pretty open minded and wouldn't be offended because someone had a difference of opinion I was hoping for a interesting discussion, but got much much less, something I would expect at other less intelligent places that some, if not all, here believe they are above...
Might need to up his meds again
and this should be at LEAST a 20 game suspension, without pay. Besides, it's not like this is his first incident (not even close). The NBA needs to send his dumbass a message that this crap won't be tolerated. He's a mental case.
I liked how he tried to explain it away, as if replay doesn't exist.
Raise your hand if you wanted to see Serge Ibaka pop him one in the jaw...
2. Artest would mash Ibaka.
3. Why aren't we calling hockey players thugs when they hurt eachother....intentionally?
Hockey and basketball are two completely different sports, apples to oranges in terms of physicality and basically everything else, don't even try to make that comparison.
However, there is no reason why it's acceptable that hockey players can fight and basketball players can't even talk trash to one another. MWP is a thug because he plays basketball and has a history of.....being aggresive? How is he different than Laimbeer or Rodman. Mchale or Bird? He isn't... he just fits the stereotype of what some consider a thug and thus he is labeled as such. It's corny. Basketball used to be every bit as physical as hockey...until Stern ruined the sport.
Basketball was never "every bit as physical as hockey" and if you believe that than you are a fool. I can't believe I actually have to make that point.
The entire 1990s.....basketball has a history of being very physical. The physicality of hockey has always been sensationalized and overblown....it will never be football. Point is if MWP was wearing a Wings jersey he's a hero. Since he wears a Lakers jersey he's a thug. That's fact and that's crap.
..... wrong. "basketball has a history of being very physical" yes... that's why there are fouls for grazing another player's hand while he's shooting or reaching over his head to grab a rebound... soooooo physical and tough, hell you might even have to flop on a charge once in a while. Seriously, are you thinking of that basketball sport that used trampolines?
In reality I think the overall brutality of major American sports is as follows: Football > Hockey (close behind due to sheer number of games, though less violent hits) > Lacrosse > Soccer? (at least you can slide tackle and knock players over, though Europeans take the diving to an embarassing level) > Basketball > Baseball.
Till your placement of Soccer...
you caught the Oscar Syndrome
Wow, this issue is really effecting you personally... I guess your Avatar represents your inner strength?
have the word "thug" in them at least once. Certainly the sentiment, if not that exact word. There were also multiple threads about Hagelin and how his hit was suspension worthy (though with less than full support), but everyone was using nicer words because he wore a winged helmet for four years.
I didn't call anyone a thug. Also in hockey the proper term is goon, goon is the word you're looking for.
It's actually impressive how consistently-hateable the Lakers are
I don't know who Ron Artest is, but Metta World Peace also clocked James Harden.
The NBA is back?
Watch that again, and look at the area at the base of his head. He seriously could have killed him. That was a ridiculous thing to do. There is no justifying that.
Amazing how thin the line is here between "gritty player" and "worthless thug who should be arrested and then exterminated"
No, intent to injure and incapacitate isn't a very thin line. Think of it this way: if it's so violently horrible it's thread worthy, probably a bad idea.
Nice to know you can read his mind. So since there were threads about Novak's elbow, does that mean he is a worthless thug?
Given his track record it's a fair assumption. And even if not he doesn't deserve the benefit do the doubt.
Also, really you're comparing Novak to Artest? Yeah they have the same reputations, previous records of suspensions and are both totally ago the same stage of their careers and in the same leagues. And I like that you attempted to read my mind and what should happen to him, yet complained about my mind reading. You really tore it up with that post.
There is no "thin line" between gritty and dirty. They are two completely distinct characteristics. Gritty is hustling, being a tough player, playing as hard as possible WITHIN the rules of the game, and generally being a hard working individual. The sad display Ronald put on is none of those things. Honestly, anything less than a ban for the rest of the season is too little for this loser, EVERY YEAR he is at least part of the dirtiest play of the year. Don't forget the Malice at the Palace. I'd be embarassed to root for a team who employs this thug.
Well I don't think there is a thin line either. But the fact remains that the gulf between the reactions to this elbow and Novak's elbow are way out of proportion to the difference between the incidents.
The malice at the palace was almost 8 yrs ago. What were the other 6 incidents he was involved in that were the dirtiest in their respective years?
Jan 3, 2003: "Ron Artest destroyed a monitor and $100,000 high-definition camera following a 98-96 loss to the New York Knicks in Madison Square Garden. The Indiana Pacers forward served a three-game suspension from the incident and was fined $35,000."
Jan 27, 2003: "He shoved Miami swingman Caron Butler(notes) into the audience, flashed an obscene gesture toward the crowd, showboated toward the Heat bench, and started a verbal exchange to Pat Riley and Keith Askins (assistant coach) during a regular-season game."
March 2007: Instead of assaulting players, this time it was his wife: "Artest pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge following a dispute with his wife in March."
May 5, 2011: "With 24.4 seconds left in the Mavericks' 93-81 win over the Lakers on Wednesday, Artest reached out with his right hand and grabbed Mavericks guard Jose Juan Barea by the face and basically clotheslined him. Artest was immediately ejected after picking up his second technical foul" http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6483153
Too tired to post the rest... I feel like I just googled "French military defeats", there are way too many to count.
Excuse me for saying "the dirtiest" as I'm sure there were a few incidents that were worse, but saying "at least his weren't the worst" is like saying "at least he committed the least gruesome murder of the bunch".
This is the pistons' fault
He didn't even see hardens face...but it was nasty nonetheless. The NBA is so soft now. 2 game suspension and call it a day.
Grammar Nazi-ed due to the stupidity of the post.
Not saying he shouldn't be suspended, but didn't this happen in hockey like 15 times in the past 3 days?
The only elbow to the head I've seen recently (more correctly, the only one approaching the severity of MWP's hit) was Hagelin on Alfredsson, and he was given a pretty decent suspension considering he has no prior disciplinary history.
Don't hockey players remove their helmets and gloves to intentionally deal blows to heads? Isn't that something that happens every game? And it's not like it's in the run of play.
Well, the big difference being what is expected and what isn't. If I square up with a guy and hit him in the face, that's not nearly as bad as hitting someone not expecting it.
Also, the way MWP swung his elbow and connected behind the ear is much more dangerous than a fist to the chin.
Mwp's elbow is more egregious due to the fact that harden wasn't expecting....that means that you believe that he meant to hit him in the face....which means that you think artest is so skilled of a combatant that he doesn't have to look at his opponent when dealing an elbow. Come on. Was he wrong ? Absolutely...will he get a multiple game suspension ....yes. Is he a thug....no. Does he have a criminal record? Not sure....did he go after a fan in the palace...yes....the pussy who threw the beer and hit him in the face watched like a girl as he trounced past him towards the innocent fan. Artest was made out to be the thug in that Detroit debaccle....the real thugs are the fans who think they can batter players and get away with it....or the fat pudgy non-athletic regards that think a Ben Wallace jersey gives them the right to come onto the court and throw up their sets and try and fight an NBA player.....I'm glad they got destroyed and despite what most on this board says...Artest is a good teammate and has rebuilt his image since that time. He faltered today and he will be punished for it. A thug he is not. Thugs commit crimes and go to jail....and also have clear defined INTENT behind their actions. I think its a damn joke that people will watch hockey and gloat over the brutal fights but then turn around and call MWP because he elbowed another player....that he wasn't even looking at. That's a joke. Society has trained American minds to be sheep and associate urban with thug.....so when a urban representative such as Queensbridge's own...MWP doesn't anything wrong....its thug. Why isn't it thug in baseball or hockey.....why when a pitcher throws at someone's head at 95 mph...its not considered thuggery.....mmmm. deep down we all know the answer to that...same reason why hockey fights aren't thug. When Jason Smith for the Hornets took Blake out of mid air as he was leaping for another dunk....he wasn't labeled thug.....hmmmm I think the prereqs for being a thug start with being associated with ghetto which is assumed by many to be the proper category for any black players who don't get their Karl Malone on. MWP is wrong and will be punished....all this name calling is out of place and for a state that once embraced the "Bad Boys"....its an absolute joke to judge MWP. Was Lambeer a thug too.....Kevin Mchale....Larry Bird....or do they not fit the prereqs? Gimme a break.
I only caught about half of what you're writing, due to the extensive grammar and formatting errors, but I do take exception to the insinuation that racism is the root cause for calling MWP a thug.
Are there thugs in hockey? Yes. Basketball? Yes. Football? Yes. Baseball? Probably. Simply fighting in hockey is not necessarely thuggish behavior; for better or worse, it is tolerated within the structures of the NHL rulebook. Thuggish behavior in hockey is exemplified by actions of people like Marty McSorely, Todd Bertuzzi, or Chris Simon. Guess what; those three guys are white, and their actions were thuggish. MWP is black, and his actions were thuggish. There isn't a limit to thuggish behavior in sports, or a race quota.
If Artest is a "thug", then you would agree that Kevin Mchale....Bill Lambeer were also thugs. Or are they excused from the "thug" label for some mystic reason. I'm sick of this hockey fights are part of the game crap. Where in the rules is that annotated? It isn't anywhere in the rule book. Scraps used to be part of the NBA and now all of a sudden its blasphemy to get into someone's chest.....ridiculous. Stop being sheep people....society has sold you that aggression between black NBA players is "thuggery".....in hockey or baseball its just good clean hard-nosed competition. Give me a damn break. Was MWP wrong.....yes. A thug he is not...even though his skin pigmentation...place of birth and affinity for rap music places him squarely in the crosshairs of that coward stereotype.
The fact that you read my post and replied by saying this
Stop being sheep people....society has sold you that aggression between black NBA players is "thuggery".....in hockey or baseball its just good clean hard-nosed competition.
has precluded me from actually writing a reply discussing the NHL allowing fighting to remain in the game (which is a decent topic to discuss, by the way), because you obviously do not read comments before replying. I'd like to see you point to the wording in my post that makes your reply relevent at all to my comment.
I wanted to jump in and say something to support you, but I couldn't get past 50 words in his posts without my head hurting from a lack of grammar. Props to you, sir.
Among various other things. And he was so white you had to wear sunglasses around him. And yet with all the things thrown at him, yelled at him and done to him, he never ran into the stands to slug anyone. And never just gave a forearm shiv to someone as he was running down the court. Laimbeer was borderline dirty. But no one's coming down on Artest for chippy play...they're coming down on him for stuff way outside the game of basketball. There are just as many black players who are borderline dirty in NBA history and they don't (or didn't) get the same grief as as Artest does. Because they manage to limit it to the game. (Notice you haven't thrown Mahorn in there with Laimbeer or McHale, since he completely undercuts your argument).
The fact that you think race was the big contributing factor in people thinking this was a dirty play is laughable. A majority of the league is black. Does anyone on this board think that just because the NBA has lots of black players it's a thug league? Nope, I seriously doubt it. And while I do often pine for the old days where the players were allowed a little more contact, this was a dirty elbow in any age of the NBA. If anything, the NBA has done a good job repairing its image over the past 10 years. What hurts MWP is that he just draws so much attention to himself. Don't get me wrong, I love the heart the guy plays with and would love him on my team, but he does have a penchant for getting aggressive too easily.
that was born and raised in the ghetto and although I agree with the premise of your argument, Ron Artest is a bad example. Ron Artest is a THUG! No I do not know him, but I was raised around cats like him and I have a few in my family actually. He is a classic example of a person that was saved by his talent. Trust me, if he didn't have NBA talent he would more than likely be dead or in jail and he has all but admitted to that point.
Why does everybody act like they're afraid of that prick? It's not like he's Shaq's size or something. I would have loved to see what Laimbeer, Mahorn, or Chuck would do to his punk ass.
He would have fit right in with those guys. Ron (or World Peace) is one of the few legit crazy dudes in sports and the whole NBA knows it.
But controlling his craziness is as much a mental part of the game as not getting lazy and knowing the plays. Being able to have your psyche together is as much a skill as the many skills he has.You're right though, it's a shame.
First he's crazy, you can't guard against that. Second, maybe of equal importance, I believe he is a former golden gloves champion. Two great reasons in my opinion to stay far out of his way.
Such an aggressive SOB for a dude named World Peace.
World peace, what an assclown.
I hate Artest. A dirty play that deserves a harsh fine and suspension.
After seeing the clip, I am pretty sure that "World Peace" should be facing the International Court in The Hauge....or David Stern in New York, whichever you prefer. That is inexcusable - I am pretty sure James Harden just didn't "get in the way", if you will.
My head hurts just watching this clip
Retread your post. You're still wrong and now wrong with a rebuttal that's just "see above."
What is the point of 5-10 games? That level of punishment is obviously not discouraging him. It's not like this is his first offense.
Apparently most people here have been waiting for Ron Artest to mess up again, there mind was made up long before this last incident.
Classless, simply classless
and I like MWP, but this was just horrible and stupid.
I did not get a chance to see any highlights or aything of the game though. What preceeded this that would make MWP upset?
If Artest had squared off with Harden the outcome wouldn't bother me much. To blast him in the side of the head the way he did is over the top and inexcusable.
If artest squared up Harden and then hit him that would be 10* worse....because that would involve clear defined INTENT to strike Harden and cause harm. I'm not saying the act was acceptable....but you cannot prove that he meant to elbow him in the face and an inadvertent elbow is face less egregious than a intended punch to ths face...let's be real. This wasn't Mchale on Rambis.....how many times has Dwight cracked people with elbows? Garnett? Rodman?? Cmon....people just love to hate Meta and play up every one of his offenses. He was wrong but damn.....he's not Al Queda.
It will be interesting to see what David Stern does with Artest giving his track record.
is as misnamed as World Peace.
Then everyone will savor the moment. Everyone can use this as ammo to support their idea that MWP is a shit human being and a bank robber. I guess people didn't watch basketball until the 2000s. Thank you David Stern for destroying the NBA.
Truth is most people were just "laying in the weeds" to ambush MWP as soon as he did something dumb. Savor the moment you've been waiting for. His actions were the same actions that made the Pistons feared and the Detroit area takes great pride in the way those teams played. I guess those elbows and punches were less aggressive lol. Glass houses.
What are you advocating here? This situation warrants considerable punishment no matter how you look at it. The penalty shouldn't be as stern (pun) as for him going into the crowd, but depending on the severity of Harden's injury, it should be significant. He is a repeat offender who clearly is unable to realize the consequences of his actions in real time and poses a threat to other players. The league has changed and all sports are trying to minimize unnecessary violence (at least ostensibly) particularly with all the attention being paid to neurological trauma. Fortunately MWP is at the point where he is increasingly unlikely to get contract offers in the future because of the risks he poses, and the league will be better off without him. Hopefully he will receive high quality psychiatric care in retirement from basketball.
Meta will receive a multiple game suspension....and he deserves to be suspended. I disagree with everyone taking shots at him after a bad display of self control. He did not see harden. You cannot prove his intent to hit harden in the head. Harden did not deserve to be hit but made no attempt to redirect himself....in fact he drifted into Meta mid-celebration. There is a strong defense for Meta in that he can legitimately claim that he did not mean to hit Harden let alone hurt him. Meta is not a dirty player. I'm sick of people being irrational and kicking the man while he's down. The same fans of the Bad Boys are clowning Meta World Peace.....that's ridiculous. Also, I don't fault Meta for his initial reaction in the Palace. He should have restrained himself at about the 3rd row...but the fan that threw the beer deserved an economy sized ass whooping and I'm glad the two idiots who stepped to meta on the court after he returned from the stands got smashed. Meta takes all the blame for the Palace incident....truth is there was a ton of trashy fans in the Palace that acted like "thugs". What man do you know that will take a beer in the face and air there like a bitch? I don't know any that I would respect. Meta is a warrior in the form of sport. He was wrong....but that same aggression is what makes him attractive as an athlete and entertainer. It's only acceptable when contained yet the NBA and fans have marketed this characteristic of his advantageously for years. I don't think he was right...I just see the whole picture. Teach a bully breed to fight and show aggression. Reward it for physical dominance......then put it down when it lashes out past the confines of It's "controlled burn". It's way bigger than this one inadvertant elbow bro.
I respectfully disagree with your point that it was an unintentional elbow. I have played a lot of basketball in my life and when I accidentally elbow someone I usually turn around to see if they are ok. If you notice in the replay, MWP does not turn he squares up with both Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka, as if he is looking for a reaction from the Thunder, and he is ready to brawl. I think it might have to do with the fact that the Thunder are the new team in the west and knocking the Lakers from the spotlight.
Just to make it clear, I have hoped that MWP would clean up his act since the brawl at the palace, because while he was in the wrong, the fans were acting just as poorly.
I really think they need to throw the book at him to show him this won't be tolerated anymore. The NCAA, NFL, and NHL have made a point of stopping contact to the head.
But he sure has hell knew he was there. If you're going to throw hard elbows at head height, you probably should know what a likely consequence is. There's no claim that can be legitimately be made otherwise. Also, don't showboat like a jackass all over the court.
2. His track record shows a player with severe self-control issues. If that's not "dirty", so be it; it may be a bigger problem
3. The Bad Boys limited things to in play on the court. And boy, did they pay for it too. They sent a plaque to the NBA office saying it was paid for by fines to the Detroit Pistons.
4. The problem with society is attitudes just like yours...that after showboating, instigating, and taking cheap shots the reasonable reaction to getting hit with by a beer (it wasn't in the face, but whatever) is going to hit whoever you can get your hands on so you're not seen as a "bitch" is completely logical...when you're 12. It'd be better if you respected reason and intelligence rather than testosterone. And not giving up millions of dollars to prove how much of a "man" you are. He's not a warrior. He's playing basketball. I think you'd know the difference.
I've seen enough from this guy..The league would be better off without him..I know when you start talking about taking away a guys livelihood it seems too much, but in this case I think its justified..( Won't happen though ).
but when I do, I elbow another guy in the face!
He didn't seem so tough when it was go time with Big Ben. The forgotten part of the Malice at the Palace is how clearly uncomfortable and scared Artest was in front of Wallace, only to get his courage up when it was time to fight hapless bystanders. He is a mentally challenged coward, at best.
After seeing the elbow, Shanahan gave Artest 25 games for being a "repeat offender"
Not putting any blame on Harden at all, he did absolutely nothing wrong or even out of the ordinary.
That said, I really don't think Artest hit him on purpose. His celebration was not an uncommon one, it's just really unfortunate that he ended up making contact (hitting) Harden. I agree with the flagrant-2 but I really don't think he should be suspended for too many games. (Maybe two game suspension?) I don't think he ever meant to hit harden, i think he was just recklessly celebrating and I think we should take it easy on calling MWP a monster or a disgrace or whatever. Clearly he has anger management, and control issues; he's getting help for it and he's doing the best he can.
He did something stupid and reckless, and I feel bad for Harden of course. But I really don't think it was intentional. MWP knows he has everyone's eye on him , (for good reason), and I just can't imagine him being so angry that he had to hit someone after what was a great play for him.
This was an accident; a serious accident but we shouldn't be judging MWP the way some people have been judging him.