help i've been transported back in time to Jim Tressel's hiring help
Don't hockey players remove their helmets and gloves to intentionally deal blows to heads? Isn't that something that happens every game? And it's not like it's in the run of play.
Well, the big difference being what is expected and what isn't. If I square up with a guy and hit him in the face, that's not nearly as bad as hitting someone not expecting it.
Also, the way MWP swung his elbow and connected behind the ear is much more dangerous than a fist to the chin.
Mwp's elbow is more egregious due to the fact that harden wasn't expecting....that means that you believe that he meant to hit him in the face....which means that you think artest is so skilled of a combatant that he doesn't have to look at his opponent when dealing an elbow. Come on. Was he wrong ? Absolutely...will he get a multiple game suspension ....yes. Is he a thug....no. Does he have a criminal record? Not sure....did he go after a fan in the palace...yes....the pussy who threw the beer and hit him in the face watched like a girl as he trounced past him towards the innocent fan. Artest was made out to be the thug in that Detroit debaccle....the real thugs are the fans who think they can batter players and get away with it....or the fat pudgy non-athletic regards that think a Ben Wallace jersey gives them the right to come onto the court and throw up their sets and try and fight an NBA player.....I'm glad they got destroyed and despite what most on this board says...Artest is a good teammate and has rebuilt his image since that time. He faltered today and he will be punished for it. A thug he is not. Thugs commit crimes and go to jail....and also have clear defined INTENT behind their actions. I think its a damn joke that people will watch hockey and gloat over the brutal fights but then turn around and call MWP because he elbowed another player....that he wasn't even looking at. That's a joke. Society has trained American minds to be sheep and associate urban with thug.....so when a urban representative such as Queensbridge's own...MWP doesn't anything wrong....its thug. Why isn't it thug in baseball or hockey.....why when a pitcher throws at someone's head at 95 mph...its not considered thuggery.....mmmm. deep down we all know the answer to that...same reason why hockey fights aren't thug. When Jason Smith for the Hornets took Blake out of mid air as he was leaping for another dunk....he wasn't labeled thug.....hmmmm I think the prereqs for being a thug start with being associated with ghetto which is assumed by many to be the proper category for any black players who don't get their Karl Malone on. MWP is wrong and will be punished....all this name calling is out of place and for a state that once embraced the "Bad Boys"....its an absolute joke to judge MWP. Was Lambeer a thug too.....Kevin Mchale....Larry Bird....or do they not fit the prereqs? Gimme a break.
I only caught about half of what you're writing, due to the extensive grammar and formatting errors, but I do take exception to the insinuation that racism is the root cause for calling MWP a thug.
Are there thugs in hockey? Yes. Basketball? Yes. Football? Yes. Baseball? Probably. Simply fighting in hockey is not necessarely thuggish behavior; for better or worse, it is tolerated within the structures of the NHL rulebook. Thuggish behavior in hockey is exemplified by actions of people like Marty McSorely, Todd Bertuzzi, or Chris Simon. Guess what; those three guys are white, and their actions were thuggish. MWP is black, and his actions were thuggish. There isn't a limit to thuggish behavior in sports, or a race quota.
If Artest is a "thug", then you would agree that Kevin Mchale....Bill Lambeer were also thugs. Or are they excused from the "thug" label for some mystic reason. I'm sick of this hockey fights are part of the game crap. Where in the rules is that annotated? It isn't anywhere in the rule book. Scraps used to be part of the NBA and now all of a sudden its blasphemy to get into someone's chest.....ridiculous. Stop being sheep people....society has sold you that aggression between black NBA players is "thuggery".....in hockey or baseball its just good clean hard-nosed competition. Give me a damn break. Was MWP wrong.....yes. A thug he is not...even though his skin pigmentation...place of birth and affinity for rap music places him squarely in the crosshairs of that coward stereotype.
The fact that you read my post and replied by saying this
Stop being sheep people....society has sold you that aggression between black NBA players is "thuggery".....in hockey or baseball its just good clean hard-nosed competition.
has precluded me from actually writing a reply discussing the NHL allowing fighting to remain in the game (which is a decent topic to discuss, by the way), because you obviously do not read comments before replying. I'd like to see you point to the wording in my post that makes your reply relevent at all to my comment.
I wanted to jump in and say something to support you, but I couldn't get past 50 words in his posts without my head hurting from a lack of grammar. Props to you, sir.
Among various other things. And he was so white you had to wear sunglasses around him. And yet with all the things thrown at him, yelled at him and done to him, he never ran into the stands to slug anyone. And never just gave a forearm shiv to someone as he was running down the court. Laimbeer was borderline dirty. But no one's coming down on Artest for chippy play...they're coming down on him for stuff way outside the game of basketball. There are just as many black players who are borderline dirty in NBA history and they don't (or didn't) get the same grief as as Artest does. Because they manage to limit it to the game. (Notice you haven't thrown Mahorn in there with Laimbeer or McHale, since he completely undercuts your argument).
The fact that you think race was the big contributing factor in people thinking this was a dirty play is laughable. A majority of the league is black. Does anyone on this board think that just because the NBA has lots of black players it's a thug league? Nope, I seriously doubt it. And while I do often pine for the old days where the players were allowed a little more contact, this was a dirty elbow in any age of the NBA. If anything, the NBA has done a good job repairing its image over the past 10 years. What hurts MWP is that he just draws so much attention to himself. Don't get me wrong, I love the heart the guy plays with and would love him on my team, but he does have a penchant for getting aggressive too easily.
that was born and raised in the ghetto and although I agree with the premise of your argument, Ron Artest is a bad example. Ron Artest is a THUG! No I do not know him, but I was raised around cats like him and I have a few in my family actually. He is a classic example of a person that was saved by his talent. Trust me, if he didn't have NBA talent he would more than likely be dead or in jail and he has all but admitted to that point.
Why does everybody act like they're afraid of that prick? It's not like he's Shaq's size or something. I would have loved to see what Laimbeer, Mahorn, or Chuck would do to his punk ass.
He would have fit right in with those guys. Ron (or World Peace) is one of the few legit crazy dudes in sports and the whole NBA knows it.
There's not many people in the world that are Shaq size. Even with his best playing days behind him, his D remains tenacious and he plays hard and tough. He is for sure not a poser or a fake, he is for real crazy and should be feared. If he would have just learned to control that craziness then Reggie Miller would have gotten his ring.
But controlling his craziness is as much a mental part of the game as not getting lazy and knowing the plays. Being able to have your psyche together is as much a skill as the many skills he has.You're right though, it's a shame.
First he's crazy, you can't guard against that. Second, maybe of equal importance, I believe he is a former golden gloves champion. Two great reasons in my opinion to stay far out of his way.
Such an aggressive SOB for a dude named World Peace.
World peace, what an assclown.
I hate Artest. A dirty play that deserves a harsh fine and suspension.
After seeing the clip, I am pretty sure that "World Peace" should be facing the International Court in The Hauge....or David Stern in New York, whichever you prefer. That is inexcusable - I am pretty sure James Harden just didn't "get in the way", if you will.
My head hurts just watching this clip
Retread your post. You're still wrong and now wrong with a rebuttal that's just "see above."
Why the fuck do you guys neg everything that doesn't agree with Ron being a "piece of shit"? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Sure that was a dirty, unnecessary play but look at Kevin Love stomping on a dudes head; he only received two games. I agree there isn't any room for this in the game. Just read Grantland's post on the Malice in the Palace sometimes Ron just goes crazy and doesn't know what he is doing. If he is a "waste of sperm" then there are quite of few in the world of sports. Give him 5-10 games.
What is the point of 5-10 games? That level of punishment is obviously not discouraging him. It's not like this is his first offense.
Apparently most people here have been waiting for Ron Artest to mess up again, there mind was made up long before this last incident.
Classless, simply classless
and I like MWP, but this was just horrible and stupid.
I did not get a chance to see any highlights or aything of the game though. What preceeded this that would make MWP upset?
If Artest had squared off with Harden the outcome wouldn't bother me much. To blast him in the side of the head the way he did is over the top and inexcusable.
If artest squared up Harden and then hit him that would be 10* worse....because that would involve clear defined INTENT to strike Harden and cause harm. I'm not saying the act was acceptable....but you cannot prove that he meant to elbow him in the face and an inadvertent elbow is face less egregious than a intended punch to ths face...let's be real. This wasn't Mchale on Rambis.....how many times has Dwight cracked people with elbows? Garnett? Rodman?? Cmon....people just love to hate Meta and play up every one of his offenses. He was wrong but damn.....he's not Al Queda.
It will be interesting to see what David Stern does with Artest giving his track record.
is as misnamed as World Peace.
Then everyone will savor the moment. Everyone can use this as ammo to support their idea that MWP is a shit human being and a bank robber. I guess people didn't watch basketball until the 2000s. Thank you David Stern for destroying the NBA.
Truth is most people were just "laying in the weeds" to ambush MWP as soon as he did something dumb. Savor the moment you've been waiting for. His actions were the same actions that made the Pistons feared and the Detroit area takes great pride in the way those teams played. I guess those elbows and punches were less aggressive lol. Glass houses.
What are you advocating here? This situation warrants considerable punishment no matter how you look at it. The penalty shouldn't be as stern (pun) as for him going into the crowd, but depending on the severity of Harden's injury, it should be significant. He is a repeat offender who clearly is unable to realize the consequences of his actions in real time and poses a threat to other players. The league has changed and all sports are trying to minimize unnecessary violence (at least ostensibly) particularly with all the attention being paid to neurological trauma. Fortunately MWP is at the point where he is increasingly unlikely to get contract offers in the future because of the risks he poses, and the league will be better off without him. Hopefully he will receive high quality psychiatric care in retirement from basketball.
Meta will receive a multiple game suspension....and he deserves to be suspended. I disagree with everyone taking shots at him after a bad display of self control. He did not see harden. You cannot prove his intent to hit harden in the head. Harden did not deserve to be hit but made no attempt to redirect himself....in fact he drifted into Meta mid-celebration. There is a strong defense for Meta in that he can legitimately claim that he did not mean to hit Harden let alone hurt him. Meta is not a dirty player. I'm sick of people being irrational and kicking the man while he's down. The same fans of the Bad Boys are clowning Meta World Peace.....that's ridiculous. Also, I don't fault Meta for his initial reaction in the Palace. He should have restrained himself at about the 3rd row...but the fan that threw the beer deserved an economy sized ass whooping and I'm glad the two idiots who stepped to meta on the court after he returned from the stands got smashed. Meta takes all the blame for the Palace incident....truth is there was a ton of trashy fans in the Palace that acted like "thugs". What man do you know that will take a beer in the face and air there like a bitch? I don't know any that I would respect. Meta is a warrior in the form of sport. He was wrong....but that same aggression is what makes him attractive as an athlete and entertainer. It's only acceptable when contained yet the NBA and fans have marketed this characteristic of his advantageously for years. I don't think he was right...I just see the whole picture. Teach a bully breed to fight and show aggression. Reward it for physical dominance......then put it down when it lashes out past the confines of It's "controlled burn". It's way bigger than this one inadvertant elbow bro.
I respectfully disagree with your point that it was an unintentional elbow. I have played a lot of basketball in my life and when I accidentally elbow someone I usually turn around to see if they are ok. If you notice in the replay, MWP does not turn he squares up with both Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka, as if he is looking for a reaction from the Thunder, and he is ready to brawl. I think it might have to do with the fact that the Thunder are the new team in the west and knocking the Lakers from the spotlight.
Just to make it clear, I have hoped that MWP would clean up his act since the brawl at the palace, because while he was in the wrong, the fans were acting just as poorly.
I really think they need to throw the book at him to show him this won't be tolerated anymore. The NCAA, NFL, and NHL have made a point of stopping contact to the head.
But he sure has hell knew he was there. If you're going to throw hard elbows at head height, you probably should know what a likely consequence is. There's no claim that can be legitimately be made otherwise. Also, don't showboat like a jackass all over the court.
2. His track record shows a player with severe self-control issues. If that's not "dirty", so be it; it may be a bigger problem
3. The Bad Boys limited things to in play on the court. And boy, did they pay for it too. They sent a plaque to the NBA office saying it was paid for by fines to the Detroit Pistons.
4. The problem with society is attitudes just like yours...that after showboating, instigating, and taking cheap shots the reasonable reaction to getting hit with by a beer (it wasn't in the face, but whatever) is going to hit whoever you can get your hands on so you're not seen as a "bitch" is completely logical...when you're 12. It'd be better if you respected reason and intelligence rather than testosterone. And not giving up millions of dollars to prove how much of a "man" you are. He's not a warrior. He's playing basketball. I think you'd know the difference.
I've seen enough from this guy..The league would be better off without him..I know when you start talking about taking away a guys livelihood it seems too much, but in this case I think its justified..( Won't happen though ).
but when I do, I elbow another guy in the face!
He didn't seem so tough when it was go time with Big Ben. The forgotten part of the Malice at the Palace is how clearly uncomfortable and scared Artest was in front of Wallace, only to get his courage up when it was time to fight hapless bystanders. He is a mentally challenged coward, at best.
After seeing the elbow, Shanahan gave Artest 25 games for being a "repeat offender"
Not putting any blame on Harden at all, he did absolutely nothing wrong or even out of the ordinary.
That said, I really don't think Artest hit him on purpose. His celebration was not an uncommon one, it's just really unfortunate that he ended up making contact (hitting) Harden. I agree with the flagrant-2 but I really don't think he should be suspended for too many games. (Maybe two game suspension?) I don't think he ever meant to hit harden, i think he was just recklessly celebrating and I think we should take it easy on calling MWP a monster or a disgrace or whatever. Clearly he has anger management, and control issues; he's getting help for it and he's doing the best he can.
He did something stupid and reckless, and I feel bad for Harden of course. But I really don't think it was intentional. MWP knows he has everyone's eye on him , (for good reason), and I just can't imagine him being so angry that he had to hit someone after what was a great play for him.
This was an accident; a serious accident but we shouldn't be judging MWP the way some people have been judging him.