OT: Randy Shannon's Attempts To Stop Nevin Shapiro
I found this article on Randy Shannon and Nevin Shapiro interesting.
http://miami.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1253198
It basically summarizes how Randy Shannon warned his players about Shapiro by name on multiple occasions, refused to talk to the guy, and threatened any assistant coach who dealt with Shapiro with an instant firing. There are rumors he had people around town who would let him know if they saw his players with Shapiro.
Shapiro responded with racially-charged rants to the AD about Shannon. It appears the AD and Shannon didn't exactly see eye-to-eye over Shannon's refusal to even talk to Shapiro.
And yet he still had 12 players receive illegal benefits.
Question: Is it always the coach's responsibility when this kind of thing happens? I know we all say the head coach is ultimately responsible, and maybe he is. But with a system this bad and not exactly getting full support from the AD, what is he supposed to do? Leave the job in protest?
I ask because some of the first things to come out on this board after the story broke were "thank god we didn't hire Randy Shannon as DC." Reading this article though, is Randy Shannon such a bad guy? Should he be held responsible?
August 18th, 2011 at 1:38 PM ^
I really liked Shannon. I wished Miami had kept him, as he was one of the straightest, honest men in college football. This emphasizes that even more. I don't think he could have done anything else.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:42 PM ^
I think I'd rather quit a job where I'm not getting support from my AD and tell everybody why I left than get fired as a bad coach. You can't work for somebody who chooses an opinionated "booster" over their head coach. I hope there would be plenty of schools lined up to hire a guy that will try to run a clean program.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:51 PM ^
But "telling everyone why you left" would essentially be nuking the program of your alma mater. Also, it's hard to totally prove unless Shapiro cooperates to the insane level he has.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:04 PM ^
If he really knew about Shapiro's involvement with players, he had to know the bomb would drop eventually. I wouldn't want to be the bomb dropper, but you're not supposed to shoot the messenger right? Admitting your program has a problem is the first step to recovery, assuming no "death penalty". All bets are off if that happens.
August 18th, 2011 at 7:15 PM ^
Throwing radioactive debris at your former employer never leads to good things. Better to just move on.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:23 PM ^
You think he would be hireable after he runs to the media and makes a much of unsubstantiated claims about the AD/Institution? Has that ever worked out well? It's also not like he could have quit and landed somewhere else of comparable status just like that, how many Miami type job openings were there?
There are a finite number of job openings each year in college football with no shortage of applicants. Why undermine yourself in those job interviews with your public rants? I'd rather be like Al Golden and bring in a 3 inch thick binder of complaince plans and deal with it quietly.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
I understand your point but I wasn't suggesting he should run to the media and tell all with no evidence, even though he must have had some evidence from having people look after his players. I meant that he could explain the situation in future interviews. If that would be looked down on by potential employers, then maybe coaching isn't the field for someone trying to keep integrity in the workplace. I feel bad for the guy because he was really in a no win situation. It's easy for me to say what I would do because I'll never be in that situation.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:33 PM ^
Oh got it. I get what you're saying, but honestly, I would say it's still better to stick it out. If you quit (for what publicly seems like no good reason) you're giving up a steady paycheck and it was for his alma matter.
If you get fired, however, you get to keep all the money. And really, there's no revenge quite like the getting paid by your former school while coaching somewhere else.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:36 PM ^
There's a reason whistleblower protection laws include provisions that allow whistleblowers to collect a portion of the proceeds when damages are recovered. Employers are naturally wary of people who turn in their former employers. Every football team in the NCAA has something going on that coaches are trying to stamp out (or not depending on the coach) and schools aren't going to hire a guy who ratted out his previous employer instead of working to fix things from within.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:51 PM ^
I'm not saying this is what happened, but what if Tressel did notify compliance and Smith about their problem and tried to fix things from within? He ended up "retiring" anyway so did it accomplish anything? What if the Yahoo story hadn't come out and he had to work another 10 to 20 years at a program he knew was doing things the wrong way. I know we're talking about a lot of money and power but I don't know if the ends justify the means.
August 18th, 2011 at 4:01 PM ^
If Tressel notified compliance way back at Easter instead of emailing what's his name, Pryor, et al probably get AJ Green's penalty for selling their stuff (4 games). That's Miami (YTM) and three cupcakes. Everyone comes back for a Big 10 title run. I personally believe that Tressel thought last year might be his last shot at a national title, so he tried to do everything he could to preserve that shot. Basically, he lost his job and legacy for a win against Miami.
There are always going to be violations in college football. Good coaches do the best they can and have to accept they can't control everything.
August 18th, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
He lost his job, sure, but based on the way people in ohio are acting (HS coaches honoring him, staffers selling JT wristbands to players, recruits and players lauding him as a man of integrity, etc), I'd say his legacy - at least south of the border - is intact.
August 18th, 2011 at 6:00 PM ^
JT has reached a position in the ether equivalent to, if not greater than, the place of Woody Hayes. He will be a legend in Ohio 100 years from now. There will be streets and children named after him.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:42 PM ^
The best thing Shannon could do would be to warn the players and warn his AD. Shannon was powerless to prevent Shapiro from doing what he wanted to do. Everything about how Shannon ran the Miami program suggests he was and is a straight-shooter. I really do respect the guy and its a shame he will probably walk away from his alma mater with not only having been fired, but by having his coaching tenure marred by scandal.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
Shannon is clean. He was hired partly to instill discipline (remember the helmet-whaling incidident in Coker's last season) and improve the players' academics and he did those things.Anyone who was saying thank God we didn't hire him as DC is ignorant.
Yes, some of his players slipped through the cracks and still associated with him, but that's only after a monster was created. Tressel wasn't dirty because his players dealt with a shady tattoo guy. He was dirty because it's a fact he knew about it and he did nothing.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:22 PM ^
No one is saying "thank God we didn't hire Shannon" because of him as a person. It's because this situation would have become a major distraction if he was our DC, or depending how things shake out he could have been forced to resign abruptly before or partway through the season which would have left us even more screwed.
I'd say things worked out well for us in more ways than one with Mattison on board.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^
That's valid and maybe what some people were getting at.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:47 PM ^
I would think he would want to allert the Compliance Department as well. No?
August 18th, 2011 at 1:50 PM ^
Something tells me when the AD and HC are having fights about whether to even talk to the guy, the HC has made it clear why he won't talk to him.
I'm guessing compliance knew about it as well though it hasn't been mentioned in this article that I saw.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^
The fact that Shapiro got in a fistfight with a compliance officer shortly after Shannon was hired can be used as circumstantial evidence that Shannon was keeping compliance very much in the loop. Shannon's going to come out of this without a career b/c of guilt by association, and that's too bad.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:50 PM ^
The system is truly flawed. I'm glad this article surfaced because I always thought Randy Shannon was a good guy as well. After listening to an interview on ESPN with Urban Meyer, he pointed his finger straight at the coaches.
Initially, I think the coaches are responsible. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they are all guilty. He cannot babysit his players. If he did warn them to stay away and they ignored his warning, that falls directly on the players.
It sounds like the former AD can take some of the blame also. If your own head coach won't even speak to the man, that should be an immediate red flag if you're the AD. No amount of money that Shapiro, or any other booster that donated to Miami can save face for what is going on right now.
If Shannon did indeed warn his players to stay away and they ignored him, that may be saving them from receiving the death penalty. What does everyone else think?
August 18th, 2011 at 1:58 PM ^
It won't save them from the death penalty if it appears that Shannon essentially went rogue with his edict that Shapiro be excommunicated.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:04 PM ^
It would actually make it worse for Miami, IMO, that there was someone trying to blow the whistle and that someone was ignored.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:03 PM ^
It may help Shannon in terms of a show cause or something but if anything it just shows how the problem was systemic and not limited to the HC.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:07 PM ^
Yeah, like BRCE I think the opposite. Shannon wanted to do something but had no institutional support.
August 18th, 2011 at 1:50 PM ^
Not the first I've read about Shannon and Shapiro hating each other, but it's good to see it spelled out in more detail. This article paints Miami in a really, really bad light for not heeding their own coach's warnings.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:04 PM ^
responsibility in this case. Shannon was apparently on to this guy but couldn't get the support he deserved. Too bad.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:21 PM ^
August 18th, 2011 at 2:14 PM ^
I really think that SI was right in the mid-90s, the only responsible thing for Miami's administration to do is to abandon their football program. They've shown again and again that they can't control it, and at some point, it will start hurting the university's broader reputation.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:29 PM ^
Football is why 99% of people know about the University of Miami. It's not the greatest academic school in the world, and without football, I doubt many kids with options wouldn't choose FSU, Florida, Georgia, etc.
This isn't a University of Chicago situation where they would attract students based on academic reputation alone. It's a good-not-great private school in a state with equal or better public options. It gets beaten out in location by FIU. It just wouldn't be the same without football.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:48 PM ^
Isn't the fact that football, and its problems at miami, constitute 99% of what people know about the school a huge problem for them institutionally? Especially as a private school that's attempting to draw dollars in a competitive environment? I'd submit that Miami's reputation in football casts the entire university as a school that caters to an out of control football culture and that drives away a significant number of potential students (and more importantly, their parents) who would otherwise be interested in what's probably the best private school in Florida.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:48 PM ^
...a little ditty I like to call "Me So Horny."
August 18th, 2011 at 5:45 PM ^
According to USNWR, Miami is the top ranked school in the state of Florida, so good or equal or better public options - there are not. And beaten out in location by FIU? Really? Have you been to the two campuses? One's surrounded by strip malls and freeways, the other is nestled in one of the nicest and most affluent suburbs in America.
In full disclosure, I went to Miami for undergrad so that's why I'm taking up this cause.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:29 PM ^
I liked Shannon too. I think as tough a situation as he was in, he could have alerted the NCAA himself. I know not a popular option but if it means limiting the damage done to the program by a booster who is out of control and you're not getting support from your AD and compliance department, it is an option. If he was warning his players about the guy and arguing with the AD then he knew there was a problem. Not notifying the NCAA at that point doesn't put him in the same boat as what Tressel did but, it isn't that far of a leap. The only difference seems to be the lack of hard evidence but I say again he seemed to have enough of an indication from the action that he did take, no? I mean he had "spies" around town! If he was intent on stopping this guy he could have done more in my opinion even if that meant sitting players who were even rumored to have ANY dealings with this guy because it is that important to the team and the program. With a history like The U's, it may not have saved his job but it may have saved this potentially program killing scandal.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:29 PM ^
I don't think you go over the AD's head to report to the NCAA if you ever want to work in college athletics again. I think the scandal had actually subsided a bit by the time he was in charge compared to what it was under Coker.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^
identified are drinks, VIP access, and entry into a pool tournament? I'm not saying this isn't serious, but those are not exactly Neon Boudeaux and Butch McCray type of impermissible benefits. I guess that there is smoke where there is fire, but drinks and bowling?
August 18th, 2011 at 2:43 PM ^
Bowling with cash prizes? Pool tournaments at his mansion with cash prizes? They all look like opportunities to funnel cash to players to me.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:56 PM ^
And free use of jet skis and assorted toys, and free strippers, and free hookers, and free abortions for potential baby mommas, and headhunter bounties on opposing quarterbacks, and free suits, and free rims for free cars, and free all-expenses paid dinners, and free jewelry, and free cash, and have I missed anything?
"Drinks and bowling" this ain't, as if this was just about a round of beers at 50-cent-beer night at the local Greasy Lanes.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^
And did you catch the part about Devin Hester breaking his $10,000 jet ski?
August 18th, 2011 at 3:04 PM ^
You serious? He's taking them to clubs, buying them jewelry, and paying them for bounties in-game. Yeah, he's not necessarily giving them all money, only buying what they would've bought with it if he did give it to them.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:34 PM ^
What did you read, exactly, that this is all you came away with from the article?
August 18th, 2011 at 3:46 PM ^
What in the hell were you reading?
August 18th, 2011 at 2:40 PM ^
So if Shannon knew his players were receiving benefits and were thus most likely not eligible then the fact that he didn't suspend those players and report them to compliance makes him not much better than Tressel (less the lying to the NCAA part). If all you do is warn your players not to do something but don't taking serious action when they do it your words have no teeth.
I know Shannon has an inspiring life story that some of his players can relate to but I really don't see how this article casts him in a better light.
August 18th, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^
I think it's saying he had heard of Shapiro's history with the program and with paying players but didn't know about the particular players who were receiving benefits. Thus the "spies" around town
August 18th, 2011 at 3:30 PM ^
This doesn't say he knew about specific players. If he knew about specific players, definitively, then he would need to suspend them, yes.
It seems like everyone purposely hid this stuff from him because he was obviously very against Nevin Shapiro.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:03 PM ^
Ultimately, what does it matter? His product on the field, even playing ineligible players, wasn't good enough to save his own job. If he'd sat those kids, he probably would've been terminated in even shorter order. He probably saw what was going on, saw he was in the hot seat, and decided to hell with it, I'm going to put these kids on the field and see what happens. If I don't get fired for losing games, hey, at least everyone knows I hate this Shapiro guy and am actively trying to keep him away from my kids. Maybe that will be enough to spare me the wrath of Big Brother when shit hits the fan.
It's a tough situation for Randy Shannon. Obviously the right thing to do is bench those kids who've actively broken the rules and associated with Shapiro. But in terms of Shannon's career, it was play them or die. In this case, he was screwed either way.
The fact that Shannon and the AD never saw eye-to-eye on Shapiro in the first place should raise some obvious questions as to his fit with the program in the first place, and is duly condemning on the University's part.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:13 PM ^
Two things here:
1) If this is true, it makes Miami look even worse. The claims about Shannon paint a picture of a coach who was doing everything he could to run a clean program and keep his players away from a known rogue booster, but didn't get any cooperation from the AD. That's not lack of institutional control, that's institutional complicity.
2) At programs located in big glamour cities like Miami, it's much harder for a coach to keep tabs on his players than it is for coaches in places like South Bend, IN or Iowa City, IA. I've never been to Miami's campus, but I'm guessing that it's nothing like the campuses in college towns of the Midwest. Unless they're going home to visit family, players (or students in general, for that matter) at schools like Michigan have little reason to leave campus, let alone Ann Arbor. Even if they do, where are they going to go? Hit up Ypsi and hob nob with all the high rollers at the 'Vu? That's definitely not the case for players at a school in the heart of South Florida. Even if Shannon had spies around town, there's really only so much he could do. Kids are obviously not going to tell their coaches or rat on each other about hanging out on a booster's yacht, and if Shannon didn't have concrete evidence linking specific players to Shapiro, he couldn't suspend anyone. Simply put, it's just hard to keep tabs on 18-22 year olds at a place like Miami. Not an excuse for what happened, but just a response to those who think Shannon is full of it because Shapiro was still able to operate under his watch.
August 21st, 2011 at 9:12 AM ^
The big problem was Shapiro's status as a major donor to the Univeristy, not just athletics. So he had cover from beyond the Athletic Department -- a fact which probably explains (but does not excuse) the AD's recalcitrance.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:15 PM ^
Shannon is undoubtedly a decent guy. Shortly after he was fired, there was a story about how he left personalized, handwritten letters in each one of his players' lockers encouraging them to keep working hard and doing the right things. He's a class act, even if he couldn't get the results he wanted on the field.
August 18th, 2011 at 3:24 PM ^
While reading the article I was thinking, No way Randy Shannon could have let this happen--he was supposed to be strict and cut down on this sort of thing. So maybe he did try after all.
In the article, Shapiro says that players weren't paid to come to Miami, that the coaches never asked him to "buy" a player. He says that this is because Miami, as a private institution, can't afford to do so. Maybe there's some truth to what he's saying, but it sounds like he's too proud to admit that the football coaches didn't want him around. But if recruits were attracted by the parties and cash and everything from Shapiro, should the coaches have been aware of what they were really after? I'm asking you, MGoCommunity. I personally think no, that it isn't that obvious and if it was, perhaps there was nothing Shannon felt he could do. In any case, he did fail to fully keep his players away from Shapiro.