OT; Nassar stabbed in prison.
Good. Fuck him.
I have to say, I like the cut of your jib.
and, it would appear, you like the jib.. of the cut!
Good to know you don’t like your jibs uncut.
I never understand people who celebrate violent extrajudicial punishment. Is that really the penal system you want?
Albert Fish kidnapped and ate a ten-year-old girl. He was executed. His death was still too kind.
JW Milam and Bryant kidnapped, tortured, and shot Emmett Till. They then tied a cotton gin fan to him and dumped him into the river. Despite the judge and prosecutor actually doing their jobs these two were found not guilty in 12 minutes. Later they admitted to killing the child to a magazine.
I don’t understand how people could not support violent extrajudicial punishment in such circumstances.
There's a difference between extrajudicial punishment in the situation where someone got away with a crime and where someone was caught and is being punished for a crime.
I also don't think that punishment for the sake of revenge is good or useful. Punishment for a crime should be focused on protecting the public, rehabilitation of the criminal, and restoration to the victims where possible.
Causing suffering to someone that doesn't actually benefit anything, even to someone who has done horrific things, is not a good thing and is just people being vindictive.
I went and saw the Sound of Freedom movie yesterday. One pedophile was arrested selling, actually renting, an 8-year-old boy so another pedophile could rape him over the weekend. During his interrogation, he was threatened with extradition to a country, I believe in S. America, whose reputation for extrajudicial punishment of child sex offenders was a strong motivation for this individual to comply with efforts to rescue other trafficked children including the boy's sister.
I would hope that the threat of extrajudicial punishment is also a very real deterrent to potential child molesters who may be contemplating raping their first victim.
Third, I think the issue for some is that while some pedophiles are being punished for their crimes, there remains an unfulfilled gap between the sentence received and what may be considered true justice. Many victims of child sexual abuse suffer and are traumatized for years or even decades after the abuse extending beyond their abuser's incarceration.
While I think your argument is reasonable, I can see some benefits to extrajudicial punishment of child molesters, while trying not to be vindictive yet seeking true justice.
Would love to see your source on this because every crime podcast, show, and law enforcement testimony I've read - the science suggests the exact opposite.
In fact, I've read studies that provide evidence that harsher punishments for child sexual assault result in more dead children. It also follows logic that if there's no chance of safety from extrajudicial punishment nor rehabilitation for the offender, then they can't take on any risk of being caught = dead children.
The threat of extrajudicial punishment MAY be compelling to get a person who has already been captured for a crime to be willing to comply with the investigation. Evidence does not support it (or increased punishment for crimes) being particularly effective at actually stopping or reducing crime. Furthermore, the way our justice system is set up (focused on punishment and not rehabilitation) results in extremely high rates of reoffenders - so it actually makes things worse.
A movie is not a reflection of real life or how State and DOJ combat trafficking or conduct extradition. While a brutal justice system could be a deterrent on a case by case basis, it’s not in the US best interest. Extrajudicial violence is counter to democracy promotion and is more likely to occur in corrupt jurisdictions. It also creates risks for American citizens who run afoul of the law in that country, as their safety and fair treatment are less guaranteed due to weak institutions. It’s in the best interest of the US to advocate for improved justice and prison conditions abroad. That also helps guarantee that extradited persons receive a fair trial.
With respect to outcomes regarding trafficking, I suppose that extrajudicial violence is a deterrent that could compel cooperation. But lengthy prison sentences are also a deterrent. If being extradited, that is also done by treaty at the request of the other country, not the US. Depending on the treaty, the US can deny it. But the US can’t say “we are going to extradite you if you don’t cooperate.” The other country must present a reasonable belief that person committed a crime there and was hiding in the US. But if the person trafficked people to the US, they could be subject to US laws and courts. It’s doubtful they would be extradited because they would have a case it isn’t safe and they could not receive a fair trial compared to the US. If the person did not commit a crime in the US, the US could threaten deportation, but deportation is a different legal process than extradition.
The reason to not support extrajudicial punishment is simple: it requires a subset of momentarily more powerful people to enact extra justice to satisfy their honor code and values while institutions turn their heads away.
That is exactly the type of society that got Emmett Till and scores of Black American's lynched in the first place. Remember that Tallahatchie County called itself "The Freestate of Tallahatchie" and the Sheriff said "people here do what they damn well please." Many Black American's were completely innocent. Many were also guilty, received racially motivated excessively harsh sentences, and were still lynched because white people in the Deep South had a messed up value and honor system where they believed some transgressions were so bad it required extrajudicial violence.
While I may be comforted if bad things happen to the Milam's and Bryant's of the world, I recognize that a society that permits and celebrates it is also a society where lynching's like Till's are more likely to occur.
Because violence isn’t solved by more violence and heinous acts, while evil, do not exist in individual vacuums. Individuals certainly need to be held accountable, but these terrible acts are often the result of a series of societal failures. Confusing more violence as some kind of justice is just another societal failure that perpetuates the very thing it seeks to resolve.
So what is a reasonable alternative? There have been several alternative systems that respond to crime with rehabilitation methods that are preferable to the US for profit prison system (in which many of the prisoners are there for nonviolent crimes).
You are not accounting for all the innocent people that have been put to death.
No one disagrees you can find horrible people (like above); it's just that when you make one mistake with government-sponsored murder, you can't take it back.
Somebody's never seen Death Wish.
Think of the permanent damage done and then assume it was your child?
He victimized two of my family members. One of them gave an impact statement in court during his case.
Yes. Fuck him.
He'll always have a target on his back as long as he is in prison.
A target that will undoubtedly be centered around the intergluteal cleft.
Wondering if the knife wielding cell mates were just trying to widen the cleft
A very large percentage of males in prison were themselves molested/sexually assaulted as children and adolescents, often very violently (it can be psychologically and developmentally devastating, obvious but often overlooked)
This is one of the many reasons imprisoned child molesters/pedophiles are attacked and regularly killed in prison—often requesting to be put into special confinement facilities if possible.
Clearly it's very complicated, logically understandable but simultaneously objectionable, and most people have strong opinions on it one way or another, as life and it's unfairness and permanence has never been simple nor easy.
If he was in general population, I'm surprised it took this long.
Not sure if true, but some article claims he's only been in general for a few weeks.
Someone did the Lord’s work
Technically a true statement, but as used here, misleading. For the sake of completeness:
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. [Romans 12: 19-21.]
- Jules: You read the Bible, Brett?
- Brett: Yes.
- Jules: Well, there's this passage I got memorized, sorta fits the occasion. Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
- [Jules and Vincent shoot and kill Brett]
*proceeds to make up a Bible verse that appears nowhere in the Bible.
It will be in the next version.
God is the polar opposite of a Hollywood mogul.
He owns the rights on a book that is an all-time best-seller, yet for 2000+ years he hasn't green-lit or released a sequel.
Some of that is from the actual Ezekiel 25:17. From the King James Bible:
17 And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.
The part before that isn't from Ezekiel, but it sounds like it comes from the Sermon on the Mount.
I've always prefered Ezekiel 23:30: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses
in the joint they call it getting 'shived' (rhymes with 'lived'). it used to be a bit like 'honor among thieves' that the worst predators would get severely abused but now it's only the most notable of even that group. jeffery dahmer got wacked in a minnesota prison, IIRC, by another inmate. had i been the governor of minnesota i would've called for a pardon application from that inmate.
It was in Wisconsin. Just a simple correction.
In Wisconsin. At the bubbler. With fried cheese curds.
well it is the department of corrections...
That was my joke. Apparently too vague.
The guy who killed Dahmer was in no way, shape, or form deserving of a pardon. Let’s look at what landed Christopher Scarver in prison to begin with:
On June 1, 1990, Scarver went to the Wisconsin Conservation Corps training program office and found site manager John Feyen and employee Steve Lohman present. Forcing Lohman down at gunpoint, Scarver demanded money from Feyen. Upon receiving only US$15 from him (equivalent to $34 in 2022), the enraged Scarver shot Lohman once in the head, killing him. According to authorities, Scarver then said: "Now do you think I'm kidding? I need more money." After Scarver shot Lohman twice more, both post-mortem, Feyen finally wrote Scarver a US$3,000 check (equivalent to $6,720 in 2022). As Feyen then fled to his car outside, Scarver fired at him but missed.
I’m not going to argue whether Dahmer got what was coming to him or not, but Christopher Scarver was absolutely not worthy of a pardon.
Johnny, relax. I was not serious.
I'm honestly amazed it took this long.
If he's anywhere that is not complete solitary confinement, then every time he steps out of his cell he is potentially a dead man walking. If he's in general population, the fact that he's not dead already is in and of itself a miracle.
I've never been to prison and I don't plan on going, but my limited understanding is that there is a hierarchy among inmates, and child sexual predators / pedophiles are near the bottom of the barrel.
The people who shouldn't be there are the bottom of the barrel. We are, for the most part, still talking about a population of society's rejects. There isn't anything in the sense of honor or order. The most likely victims of prison are victims of the justice system itself. An actual psychopath isn't going to look at Nassar and feel anything; that's what psychopathy is.
I think it's more, some criminals that came from broken families -- abuse victims themselves -- probably can't look at the likes of Nassar without feeling white-hot seething rage. It's an insulting oversimplification to say that abuse begets abuse (many horribly abused people reject their upbringing and thus, while broken, are not dangerous), but for those that are in there that have known nothing else, they have some unfinished business with child abusers.
It's not something to celebrate or condone. I don't care what happens to Nassar, but if we're talking about hoping he's murdered in prison by some violent abuse victim, that's inhumanly disregarding any sort of hope of rehabilitation for the latter. It's blood sport.
Yeah, if the people who let Nassar exploit young women for decades were facing some come-uppance. . . People who glory in other people's pain aren't terribly evolved.
He's serving de facto life in prison without parole. There is no possibility of rehabilitation. But I agree, it's not something to celebrate. But you won't see tears falling from my tree branch tonight either.
I'm not talking about Nassar's rehabilitation, FWIW. And sure, maybe the guy who stabbed Nassar is some thoroughly broken monster, if so then fuck that guy too, but then if that's the case it's likely he's attacked other inmates as well, and quite likely guards, and we just haven't heard about it because no one cares.
"Some guy stabbed Nassar" can only be celebrated if you thoroughly whitewash the deplorable conditions set up to make it happen in the first place. Inmates don't get attacked in a vacuum; it's so common it's not a statistic so much as a rate.
I get what you’re saying but your view on prison is not accurate. Saying there’s no sense of honor or order is patently false. It’s not just random prisoners running around stabbing people. County jail is a bit more like that but prison (particularly a max security in like this) is highly ordered, by the inmates (i.e., gang leaders make the rules). Most of them are based on decades of seeing what happens when certain things are “allowed” to take place.
it’s a twisted sense of honor and order, but there’s plenty of that there.
”prison politics” is everywhere. in many instances, you don’t follow the inmate codes, rules, and regulations, you’re getting stabbed next. it is true to a large extent that “the inmates run the asylum”
there are inmate rules against who you can and cannot trade with, be seen with, interact with, play chess with, rules on who can and cannot be killed and why, etc.
We're talking about the way things are versus the way things should be.
You're correct that there is order, but those prison codes and rules and hierarchy you mention are the direct result of a century of apathy and negligence. Prison reform has always been extremely unpopular by the general public, so we now have a system where inmates are regularly subjected to exploitation and abuse and violence.
I don't have any sympathy for a monster like Nassar, but events or systems like this aren't something we should be celebrating or defending in modern society.
While many here are celebrating this, I think we should all check ourselves and realize what a sad situation it is...
...that Steve Penny and the hundreds of other similarly complicit USAG officials were not also in prison where they could also have gotten shanked.
"Just a little prison hazing."
-the whole northwestern football team
You mean "ENTIRE Northwestern football team," don't you?
But the warden had no idea that it ever happened