OT-ish: Burke #1 in ESPN's Rookie Rankings
David Thorpe over at ESPN keeps a list of all NBA rookies and ranks them; he updates it consistently throughout the NBA season.
He just released the new list today, and #1 is none other than Trey Burke, while Tim hardaway Jr has moved up to #3. The link is paywalled (need ESPN insider): http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10198337/rookie-watch-trey-burke-takes-top-spot
A small excerpt from the section on Burke: "As we look forward it will be hard not to expect much more from Burke, who has found a way to dominate games despite his lack of size and elite athletic ability, because Utah's schedule will get easier (the Jazz have played the most difficult schedule in the NBA so far). Plus, Burke has proven he has the ability to improve (like he did from his freshman season to his sophomore season at Michigan), which should give Jazz fans more reason to smile."
There is more on Burke, and another section on Hardaway, so if you have ESPN Insider I think it is worth the read.
It is pretty cool to see Burke doing so well, so quickly. I hope (and expect) him to continue improving.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:06 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 5:29 PM ^
Sigh? What could have been? We saw what could have been. Him staying 3 or 4 years means he wasn't the Burke we knew, or ran into injury trouble.
Burke won a Big Ten Championship as a Freshman and might have been a first round pick. He came back and was an All-American, All-Big Ten, POY, and led the team to a NCAA runner up finish.
I think in any situation this earns a player the right to challenge himself at the next level. He conquered the college game and we reaped the benefits.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:37 PM ^
I think he means what could have been had the Pistons drafted him.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:37 PM ^
i think what yakattack might be referencing is that detroit had a chance to draft him and passed.
could be wrong tho...
December 27th, 2013 at 6:59 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 7:03 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 5:08 PM ^
I had a fear that somehow he wouldn't translate to the NBA. Good to be wrong here
December 27th, 2013 at 7:27 PM ^
Would someone please explain how Trey lacks "elite" athletic ability. Top player in college hoops, potential NBA rookie of the year. In my next life, please, lord, endow me with the lactk of "elite" athletic ability Trey Burke possesses.
December 27th, 2013 at 8:24 PM ^
should top player in college hoops = elite athletic ability? jimmer fredette, evan turner, tyler hansborough, j.j. reddick, andrew bogut, jameer nelson, shane battier all say no.
potential rookie of the year = elite athletic ability? is every effective nba player effective because they are athletic? no.
does trey burke being more athletic than you mean he's an elite athlete? i doubt you are michael phelps.
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i love watching trey burke and wish him the best. but just because he is good does not mean that he is a super athlete, or even an above-average nba athlete. it isn't even that subtle of a distinction to make.
December 27th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
that you never answered the question as to why it is that Trey lacks such ability, or what such ability constitutes. Anyone who has watched his training videos can attest to a great deal of athletic ability, at least of a kind that most of us can relate to. So tell us exactly what this means at the next level. . . instead of just shaking your head at our ignorance.
December 27th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^
Hey, I love Trey as much as anyone around here, but you cannot seriously believe that he has NBA elite level athletic ability. He just doesn't. For example, he posted 36.5 in vertical and 11.09 agility. Those were some of the worst in his group. Compare that to the elite athletic guy in the same draft, Oladipo. He posted 42 in and 10.69. Trey is not in the same league athletically.
December 27th, 2013 at 11:07 PM ^
gets thrown around too casually which makes it lose it's luster as a word.
there is a very real distinction between basketball skill and athleticism, and it is pretty obvious that burke relies on a hefty dose skill with an average or above average base athleticism.
December 28th, 2013 at 9:05 AM ^
So by that logic, Earvin Johnson, widely considered the greatest point guard of all time, couldn't be great because his measurables weren't great.
December 28th, 2013 at 11:14 AM ^
does a player need to be able to throw down monstrous jams to be great at basketball? do they need to be able to run a 4.4 40 to dribble a basketball? no and no.
but if you take two people with the exact same abilities at dribbling, shooting, passing, court vision--actual basketball SKILL--and give one of them a 42 inch vertical with lightning quickness and usain bolt speed, and the other a 36 inch vertical with above average (for NBA) speed, they will not be the equal players.
on the flip side, if you take a player who is miles above the next closest player in terms of passing, court vision, and add a once-in-a-generation combination of size and dribbling skills, but put them in a body with only above average speed, quickness and leap, that person can still be the greatest ever player at his position--BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE BASKETALL SKILL.
December 28th, 2013 at 11:29 AM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 9:57 PM ^
Tom Brady is among the best in the NFL. But by NFL standards, Tom Brady is far from an elite athlete.
A healthy Mitch McGary might be better than GRIII, but GRIII is more athletic.
December 28th, 2013 at 11:18 AM ^
In Trey's case, he possesses excellent hand eye coordination or he couldn't be the point guard that he is with excellent dribbling and passing skills, as we saw over his two years at Michigan, and an ability to block a shot at least a foot over the rim in the NC game. He also can control his body well enough to penetrate to the basket surrounded by giants.
Would Steve Nash be considered an "elite" athlete?
December 28th, 2013 at 12:02 PM ^
that eye-hand coordination is an innate athletic ability that is often overlooked, and trey burke probably has great ability (relative to other NBA players) in that regard...but that is still just conjecture because it isn't really something that is measured in predraft workouts.
but we've already established that he isn't a huge leaper relative to other nba players. so, yes he can block a huge shot, but he's not going to be playing above the rim like westbrook or rose, etc.
and no, i doubt steve nash would be considered an elite athlete because his measurables aren't going to be on the level of ELITE (ie a distinction reserved for like 5-10 players in the entire league at that position) athleticism.
now, do examples like trey burke and steve nash demonstrate that being considered an elite athlete is irrelevant? absolutely not, in my opinion. it just proves how great they are at the actual game of basketball, because, unlike better athletes, they rely on actual basketball abilities that they acquired through hours and hours and hard work.
December 28th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ^
The main knock on Trey is that he isn't super-quick. He's not slow by any means, but he's not another Iverson. That doesn't mean he can't still have a really good career though.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:10 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 5:26 PM ^
More than 10 I'm guessing. Happens every few years. Blake Griffin most recently.
December 27th, 2013 at 6:15 PM ^
Remember though, Blake Griffin sat out his entire first year in the NBA with an injury. But it does happen quite often. Kevin Durant is the next most recent I believe.
December 27th, 2013 at 9:01 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 10:39 PM ^
Didn't mean to take anything away from Griffin. He was the last to attain both. Guess I was just pointing out his situation was somewhat unique.
December 27th, 2013 at 11:09 PM ^
He would be in elite company:
Going backwards players to have won both the Naismith and the NBA ROY awards:
Kevin Durant, Elton Brand, Tim Duncan, Larry Johnson, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson, Larry Bird and Lew Alcindor.
Out of the ones not in the league anymore, only Larry Johnson is not in the HOF.
December 28th, 2013 at 1:38 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^
I would've loved to have a Burke Piston jersey. Would've been motivation for me to get to the Palace more.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^
I would love to see him win Rookie of the Year, both for his sake and for the sake of Michigan's recruiting of point guards.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:24 PM ^
Suck it, Dumars.
December 27th, 2013 at 5:33 PM ^
TheLastHoke is obviously not David Thorpe.
December 27th, 2013 at 8:38 PM ^
I never cease to be amazed at the stubborness of those that still can't admit KCP was a mistake. Christ, it's okay to be wrong once in a while. I've made it an art form.
December 27th, 2013 at 8:46 PM ^
so far KCP show that he can be an elite defensive player. At worst, he'll be a 3 and D type player which isn't terrible.
Saying it's a mistake is dumb at this point since it's both their rookie year and we don't know the final product.
December 27th, 2013 at 10:33 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 11:57 PM ^
tend to ignore the fact that it would be unlikely we could have pulled off a brandon knight trade had we drafted burke, as we would have lost a lot of leverage.
it's definitely a losing argument to say that, straight up, kcp over burke was the better choice. but, if we are gonna take the captain hindsight approach, i would argue that kcp + jennings is greater than burke + knight.
December 28th, 2013 at 12:58 AM ^
No player is a shut down defender, not with the current NBA rules. KCP has been a really good defensive player and that is by itself very useful in the NBA. Advanced metrics showed that KCP is excellent in that department. Defense is production. People think production measure with points, assists, rebounds, blocked shots, etc., but they don't tell the story about defense. Look at KCP's touches per minutes, it's very low because he's the #5 option on the team (which is understandable because of Jennings, Smith, Monroe and Drummond getting the majority of the touches).
KCP is not below average NBA player. He's above average. Hard to produce when he's the 5th option on the team and Monroe, Drummond, Smith taking up rebounds. Jennings handling the ball a ton and getting tons of assists. KCP's role is to play defense and shoot 3s which he is suited perfectly for the team.
Look at the Pistons defensive numbers with KCP on the floor. A below average NBA player would not be playing good defense.
December 28th, 2013 at 4:33 AM ^
If KCP could actually, you know, SHOOT the basketball, he wouldn't be the 5th option
December 28th, 2013 at 11:36 AM ^
because Jennings, Monroe, Smith and Drummond are all taking touches away from KCP. He's the #5 option by default. It's hard to shoot accurately when you don't get the ball.
December 28th, 2013 at 5:42 AM ^
December 28th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
because NBA is a two way games where players plays both offense and defense. Sure there are some night where players did not have a good night like a bad shooting night or bad defensive night. That doesn't take away the overall season production which matters more than a single game production. KCP is being asked to guard tightly and is very good off the ball (he ranks 13th in the league in that category).
December 28th, 2013 at 12:12 AM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 6:03 PM ^
I think this is the sort of news that helps Michigan in the long run, if we are not only sending great talent to the NBA, but talent that is getting early kudos like this.
Trey did an interview with NBA>com about a week ago - HERE - where he talked a little bit about being part of programs that have been on the rebound starting in high school and how he hopes to do similar things with the Jazz like he accomplished here despite the differences in competition level.
December 27th, 2013 at 10:16 PM ^
thanks for recommending this. Didn't know he was such a fan of Iverson. Good stuff about Stockton's recommendations to him. Very candid about the deficits in his game. Love when he notes that just two years ago he was moving into a dorm and no one in Ann Arbor knew him.
December 27th, 2013 at 6:21 PM ^
I hope Trey has a long and distinguished career, but I don't think we have seen him hit the rookie "wall" yet. It exists for nearly all rookies as they acclimate to the grinding schedule and style of play.
That said, the NBA has been calling a less physical game than college in recent years - maybe we've overestimated Tray's fragility in the League.
December 27th, 2013 at 6:39 PM ^
He has no concept of a wall
December 27th, 2013 at 8:48 PM ^
all rookies will go through the rookie wall because they haven't experienced 82 games and most of it are 3-4 games a week. That's tough grind. They need to learn when to conserve energy and when to expend energy. That's something they have to go through.
December 27th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 6:50 PM ^
That's true. Also, he missed the first 18 games to start the year, so he's relatively fresh.
I think he'll continue to have a pretty good year. I do think that Utah being as horrible as they are has helped him get comfortable leading the team and getting into the groove. As the PG he needs the ball in his hand, and without a dominating other player he's done well to take the lead. I do think he'll win ROY this year, just because the expected top players haven't really done anything.
December 27th, 2013 at 6:28 PM ^
December 27th, 2013 at 6:38 PM ^