OT: Clemson Recruit Demands Offer for Teammate
Please forgive and delete if this has been previously posted. Otherwise, interesting power-play by a big-time recruit. On one hand, he's looking out for his boy. On the other hand, he's being a petulant child demanding his way. Curious as to how Coach Hoke would handle such a situation. My guess: we'll offer your teammate if WE (coaching staff) see fit, and we won't beg you to stay.
there's a flag with that "certain 2str CB recruit"s face on it that says "Never Forget", and I'm the kind of guy who always does what flags containing unambiguous imperatives tell me to do
If you're talking about Adrian Witty, he just spent his sophomore season at Cincinnati, where he played in 12 games and made 15 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 1 pass breakup. Considering the other flameouts Rich Rodriguez recruited in the defensive backfield (Cullen Christian, Justin Turner, Isaiah Bell, etc.), I don't think there's much conclusive evidence that shows he wasn't an FBS-caliber player equally talented to the others. Rodriguez recruited lots of guys from Florida and offered lots of "sleeper" types, like DJ Williamson, Antonio Kinard, Tony Drake, Dwayne Peace, etc.
certain that the coaching staff actually liked Witty enough to offer him a scholarship not dependant on where Denard had went.
That's true, but it's different than the Clemson situation. If a coach wants to give a recruit a reason to come school X (his friend being there) that's the coaches right. The Coach can determine who he wants to send scholarships out to, and it's his ass on the line if they don't pan out enough.
That doesn't explain their pursuit of Tony Drake and D.J. Williamson and Antonio Kinard... We were going after Drake's teammate Corey Nelson (IIRC), too, but I think we offered Drake before Nelson...and Williamson and Kinard had zero teammates of interest.
So. I'd say the evidence for your argument is inconclusive.
Many have already made the case in the thread already, so the bullet points:
- He's got talent people want
- Once he signs, he has no leverage
- There is absolutely nothing improper here rule-wise
- And calling this a "demand" is a total overstatement-- he wants to help his friend, but it's hardly an ultimatum
Andy Staples did a nice job sticking up for him here
Ummmm, It's totally a demand. He already said: you have to offer this kid to get me and they did, then he committed. Now he's saying: you also have to offer this other kid to keep me or i'll look somewhere else. That part about looking somewhere else if they don't is a threat. Basically the definition of an ultimatum.
He's not saying signing with Clemson is contingent on the other offer. They could ignore the other offer and still end up with him. They probably will, and he probably stays anyway. He's milking it, for sure, but the only threat that would matter is saying flat out "you don't offer, I de-commit." And saying he might go look at Ole Miss is a long way from saying that. In any case, it's not clear cut that he ends up somewhere else if his bud doesn't get the offer.
Not saying it isn't a little unseemly, but not worth the moral indignation it seems to be causing. He's a diva, and he's totally comfortable with it. Not saying Michigan would or should ever humor something like this, but this is Clemson fergodsakes.
From Atlanta-Journal Constitution's follow-up post (the AJC is where this whole thing really got started):
Nkemdiche was apparently upset with how he had been portrayed in some of theother blogs and on message boards. “I didn’t say if Ryan didn’t come [to Clemson] I won’t” — which is true. We reported that a Clemson offer to Ryan Carter would make Robert’s commitment a “done deal,” which is what he had said repeatedly in our previous interview. Despite his Clemson commitment, Nkemdiche is still being pursued by many other suitors because of his elite prospect status. Colleges will be trying to convince him to talk with their coaches and visit their campuses until signing day. With the “done deal” comment, Big Rob wasn’t making demands out of Clemson, but rather simply trying to help a teammate get a good look.
For perspective, Pitt landed a highly ranked DB named PItts a while back, also signing his cousin, a far less highly-rated DB named Pitts. It wasn't as vocal as this but it was generally understood that Pitts the First wanted Pitts the Second to be offered, or he would not commit to Pitt.
In discussing this, a Pitt guru observed: there's nothing wrong with this. It's not illegal, and you get to make a judgment call: do you want the talent and establish the precedent that stud recruits can use leverage in you to bring along some dead weight? Maybe, maybe not.
If Clemson buckles now, other recruits will want to bring their buddies along as well. If they don't, they might miss out on their star recruit. It's al for the coaches to decide
The way I see it, once we've made it to the point where Saban is giving job offers to girlfriends in order to get recruits to sign, this is pretty much just the next step in the natural order of these things.
Nevermind
All's fair in love and scholarship offers.
Is it bad that I hope Clemson offers the kid, but that he commits somewhere else?
Package deals happen and they're part of recruiting. It even goes beyond that. Coaches make offered to feeder schools to take their 3* guys as roster depth mostly to keep that school happy and get better access to the elite talent that school prodces.
The only real difference is this guy was rather public about all this. Normally it's handled privately in the coach's office. Sometimes its pretty easy to handle (multiple top ranked guys off the same 7v7 team being interested in playing together) other times it involves two stars and unranked guys. Being able to offer people a shared experience is a powerful recruiting tool and it is up to Clemson to decide how to handle this.
Personally I think Clemson needs to say no, simply to save face here and make it clear these demands needs to be conveyed privately to the coach. I don't blame the kid for asking though.
He would open up the Bo Book of Rules and read #1... The Team The Team The Team.
When Poggi was interviewed by Tremendous, he admitted that guys at his school like to take their time deciding so that scouts could check out other players on their team. Sure they didn't take steps as drastic this, but they did this to help out other players on their team. Nkemdiche is playing hard ball, but that's only because he knows if Clemson doesn't offer his friend someone else will. But this could have dire consequences for Clemson (or any team) if they cave to his demands.
Since a scholarship has economic value....would it be a recruiting violation to offer someone else a scholarship to secure a committment from the person requesting the perk? The economic benefit is not firsthand, but there is an economic gain realized for the requesting players committment by a socially close third party.
So, is he a savvy kid taking advantage of the best leverage he will ever have, or is he a spoiled diva making unreasonable demands? This kind of stuff happens all of the time. We seem to have no problem here when a "role player" gets a scholly to Michigan in hopes that a more high-profile friend will sign.
Like most recruiting questions, we won't really know the answer for a few years.
What role players have been signed to get a high profile friend?
Come on Magnus, you know Tater hasn't responded to a question in his entire 3 years. The one time he did, he called someone a "fag."
I think that's a term of endearment where he lives.
He could demand that tuna casserole be served every Friday night.
But the problem is that, unlike the marketplace analogies put forth above, each player gets the exact same compensation (1 scholarship) and are treated in the same mannar. Their perception is that they are all in the same boat, and that each player earned his place on the team. This helps build team unity.
Sure, there have been suspected package deals in the past, but they were not overt, not public. By making his demands public like this, I think that the Clemson coaches have little choice but to not offer his teammate. I suspect that Nkemdiche's public demands will be counter-productive.
I just saw the 30 on 30 episode on Marcus Dupree. His biggest mistake was listening to those around him who told him he was owed something, that he was so good, he should receive special treatment. If I was the Clemson coach, I would not only not offer the teammate, but I would take back the original offer. As Bo said, no man is more important than the team.