OT: Another Forcier Encounter and the Prototypical QB Size
Be forewarned; there is nothing substantial in this post.
Last night I was at the Jug at about 10:30, ordering a couple beers from the bar. I looked over and noticed none other than Robert "Little Man Tate" Forcier waiting patiently for a carryout food order. Now, I'd normally be 100% sure it was him but since there was a 21+ admittance rule at the time, I'm only 99% sure. If anyone can confirm that as of yesterday Forcier was rocking a chinstrap and often wears a Phillies cap, then I'm back to 100% sure it was him. Just to be clear, he was not drinking--simply minding his own business and waiting patiently as the kitchen prepared his food. I fully expected him to come up to me and tell me that he doesn't get nervous, but alas, he never did (/sarcasm).
Anyway, since it's the cool thing to do, I decided I'd size him up and post about my opinion on MGB. First off, I'm jumping on the 194-lb.-Forcier-is-a-farce bandwagon; I think the kid is still about 10-15 lb. shy of reaching his spring roster weight. On the other hand, he was actually a bit taller than I expected him to be. I'm about 6'2" and from ~15 feet away he looked to be a very comparable height. However, with his lack of bulk I quickly concluded that Denard will start 13 games this fall (/more sarcasm).
I started thinking about the only other quarterback I've seen up close (and had a couple beers with, nice guy, IMO) at the Jug: John Navarre and how he was a moose (6'6", 228lb. according to 2003 roster). If I recall , the typical meme several years ago (if I'm using that term correctly) was that a QB had to be at least 6'3" or 6'4" to be able to see over the line, throw balls that couldn't get batted, etc. I started wondering, is college and professional football moving away from the mindset of this height being requisite, or is this simply a spread offense tradeoff? Certain pro-style guys like Chad Henne, Matthew Stafford, Jeff Garcia are all 6'2" or shorter, and all of RR's key spread QBs are 6'1" or shorter (Forcier, Robinson, White).
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed a trend like this, or am I just focused too much on the spread O right now?
It's a good thing you marked this as "OT." I thought for a second that this post was going to be about Michigan players.
Wait a minute...
I certainly did not label it OT. The admins have been adding to that to a lot of my on-topic posts lately.
The mods 'round these parts have seemed a little overzealous in recent weeks...
from skimming the post (and reading the first line), they would say "Meh, OT" without reading it through. stating that there is "nothing substantial" from the get-go kind of makes you think it's not on-topic
I'm going to go with "spread offense tradeoff". The speed required just isn't going to be present in a beast like Navarre.
I hear we have some redshirt freshman named Gardner that could disprove your theory though....
Big day today!!
thank god navarre never had balls batted down at the line
Yeah, thank god that never happened with teeth-grinding, fist-pounding-your-seat, frustrating regularity.
Freep is going to quote you and start a whole new line of allegations of Michigan football players having no respect for the law. Of course they will claim he was drunk, throwing up, and with 4 15-year-old girls in tow, drunk also...
That would be the Tate Forcier Quadruple Option, no?
I suppose it is ok since the combined age is 60.
I think that a lot of measurables are pretty over-rated in sports. Drew Brees is about 5'10'' and just won a superbowl.
Steve Smith (carolina) is under 6' and definitely not the "prototypical WR body" (think TO) but is one of the best in the league.
I think that ability should outweigh size, and I think if a player is good enough he'll succeed no matter his height.
Here is an ESPN Insider article about the same issue with NHL goalies - they don't recruit much under like 6'2'' now. But as our better-than-rudy Hunwick shows, size isn't everything
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/draft2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyce_gare&id=5301689
Blasphemy.. Brees is 6 foot tall on the nose.
I dunno what he's listed at, but one of the guys I lived with sat in a box with Brees at the National Title game in the Superdome a few years ago. My friend is 5'10'' and said that Brees was his height or shorter.
He's listed at 6' on ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2580) and I'd be shocked if we all really believe what most pro athletes' listed size is.
QBs Brees trees has freezy cheese.....
Exceptions do not prove the rule. If Tate or Denard were 6'5 and could run at the same speed, they would have been 5*s like Terelle Pryor.
Measurements aren't everything, but they are a good indicator of success. Being faster/taller/stronger equates to having an advantage over slower/shorter athletes. Jake Long had a built in advanatage because he grew to be a huge guy while at the same time still being relatively fast and had great agility and footwork. Jake Long would not have been nearly as successful if he were 5'11.
But did he meet your lofty expectations of him while he waited for his food or did he fall short?
But he slathered them in ranch. He's trying to bulk up, you know.
Doesn't he know that he's supposed to eat a pizza every night?
[Boom! Gittleson'd!]
If he's eating jalapeno poppers every night as a late night snack, he'll be up to 200 in no time...
Did he try to pitch the bag of chicken strips to a buddy with 3 scantily clad waitresses bearing down on him?
Hold on to the damn chicken!!!!!
I haven't heard about So in a long time. Is he/she still recovering from that run-in with Denard?
comparable height...
Next time you can make a more accuarate comparison if you were to ask him to dance. You can also give us a full report on his hip fluidity.
/ sarcasm
Anyway, speaking about prototypical size. Usually in a prostyle it is a little more important to have some height. This is because the splits between lineman is usually smaller than it is for a spread. The lanes aren't as obvious. Also, much of prostyle is based on play action, which requires WR to be recognized fairly quickly. Obviously, with play action, all the moving players going different directions is even more confusing if you're shorter trying to find the open man.
To say height isn't important is false. Drew Brees would be helped by having more height. However, it isn't a necessity. The biggest way it plays against Tate is because it forces RR to call plays calling for Tate to roll out more often. This is so the lanes open up more clearly and so he can see WRs (it also has to do with lineman protection, but that's another topic).
The other downside with the frequent rollout passing attack is that it essentially takes away 1/3 of the football field.
Not when Denard is fast enough to throw it to himself on the other side of the field. Then we have a whole new ballgame.
Minus the occassional RB leak into the open field throw back play. Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you or saying there isn't negatives to rolling out.
I should also note, the reason play action out of a prostyle is harder is because your back is momentarily turned from the LOS. This is the reason height is more important in a prostyle, not because of the actual motion of the play action fake. The shotgun also helps those not up to the prototypical height because it allows them to see more of the field at the time of the snap. This is one of the reason so many Hawaii and Texas Tech QBs have been successful in a passing first offense. That, and if you look at the splits their lineman have it looks like our spread punt formation, the passing lanes are huge.
Was he with any 3 stars?
He's likely a shade under 6' tall. Denard is slightly taller than Tate.
Word from undisclosed athletes is that Denard is only an inch or two taller than Jeremy Gallon. So like 5'10"... Tate is at most an inch taller than that. Reputable source.
Also, from the mouths of undisclosed football players "Tate hasn't done shit for working out since the spring game. He's looking like a little boy". And "Denard is getting too big at like 215(pounds) " It sounded like the 215 was an exaggeration but still, it sounded like the football players are ready for Denard to hold down the starting position.
How much do you trust your sources? Just wondering if this is a legit fact or not. I am really hoping for Tate to pull through as the starting QB because I think Denard will be able to help more playing a variety of positions, and being an all-around football playing athlete, not just quarterback. Either way I will be happy if we win! Thanks. Go Blue!
It may be against the rules for the staff to require too much off season workouts, but can you imagine what Tate's dad would do to him if he found out he were slacking?
You mean aside from putting him up on the Wall of Shame on QBForce? Beyond that, I know of no greater punishment that can be meted out in the Forcier household.
It's a football player who was in my stats 350 spring term class taught by Gunderson. I'm not going to say who it was but I will say that this person catches the ball and didn't start last year. Although, it was a month ago and Tate could've done some bulking up since then I suppose.
I believe that you were told these things, but perhaps, for the sake of your credibility, you might want to clarify the number of people you heard these stories from:
In your first post it sounds like the story was legitimated by multiple parties:
Word from undisclosed athletes...from the mouths of undisclosed football players
But in your second post, when asked about your sources, it seems like it's just one dude talking:
It's a football player who was in my stats 350 spring term class
So, is this just one person's opinion or more than one?
Sorry, I can see how you would be confused by the ambiguity of my syntax. I'm not an English Major. I was not lying to heighten my credibility. I received my information about their height from a female swimmer who hangs out with a lot of football players. The swimmer who said it is well over 6 feet tall, so idk how much of a judgement she could have gotten by looking down.
Those words that I quoted were actually said verbatim in the stats 350 lecture. Take it as you will.
I'm 6'1" and can't throw worth a damn.
and can't see shit beyond the los, not that it means anything, because I can't throw either.
I bet you guys didn't know that you could stack shit that high! So I guess it goes to show height isn't all inclusive.
and we should all just be glad that Tate is at least a head taller than me.