Here is the latest on from ESPN on the Freep article. Somewhat more measured, I guess.
Newest ESPN "analysis" on the Freep article
Great article. He doesn't claim to know all the facts, and stays objective. I wonder if any of the players that made these claims are still on the team. Depending on the truthfulness of the allegations I have two hopes:
1. That if we are doing something wrong, we correct it.
2. If we're not doing anything wrong, the players that are so worked up about this that they'd go to the freep to talk about it are no longer on the team. We don't need that kind of cancer inside the locker room.
Could it be that it was former players and the ones they are saying are current are the Stokes and Hawthorne slip ups at Media Day ?
That's a good question, but I don't see the Stokes and Hawthorne quotes as slip ups. They were talking in a completely different context and the disingenuous reporter took the quote and used it in the article with a small disclaimer.
I can take a few dozen presidential quotes from different contexts and applied them to this article or anything I happen to be writing. Of course, the person who said them said them about something else, but being disingenuous, I can apply them none the less.
Asking Stokes and Hawthorne to talk about how hard the prep is and then applying in a context that claims violations is bunk.
Agreed ..Stokes and Hawthorne comments is what i should have typed
It doesn't matter what context the quotes were said in. They said them, clearly. They were talking about practice schedules, and what they said clearly indicated that we weren't following the rules. That these two kids didn't know the rules, or didn't understand the larger implication of the question, doesn't invalidate what they said. In fact, the ease with which they offered their answers speaks to their veracity.
First of all, Stokes was not even enrolled over the summer, so he was not subject to the NCAA rules.
Second, the NCAA sets a limit on the amount of REQUIRED workouts during the offseason. Any additional workout is not prohibited. Therefore, what Stokes and Hawthorne were saying pertained to their schedule. Note they didn't say the workouts were required in any way. They most likely decided to follow their schedules after the coaches told them that such a schedule would maximize their playing time.
berryH, it most certainly does NOT indicate that "we weren't following the rules."
Those kids were asked questions about how hard the preparation for this season has been. And the answer to that question has been used to suggest that they were talking about rules violations. They were not! They did not say they were being over worked! They did not say they were not willing to participate in voluntary practice.
Yet it has been passed off as them being forced to participate more than they would voluntarily be willing to do. That is disingenuous on the part of the author. That is not the question that was asked and that is not the context of their conversation.
The disingenuousness of the piece has you believing that they reveled violations!! That's how bad it is!!
This quote bugged me:
"I never understood that you were signing your life away when you sign [that Letter of Intent]," one FBS quarterback told Feldman. "They control everything you do: When you wake up, when you go to bed. I get told I'm going to birthday parties for kids. You don't have a choice. You have a dictatorship. Every time we don't show up to a voluntary workout, we've got stadiums and hills. And there's no money to show for it. You definitely don't realize it when you're getting recruited and they're being all nice to you."
poor baby. you're getting all paid for food and first class education to play a fucking game.
i guess i'm going to try and ignore this situation and look forward to saturday's game. if rodriguez was in face knowingly abusing the rules, that certainly doesn't bode well for his future in AA.
I agree with the first half of your post, but not the second half. People are blowing an agenda way out of proportion here.
Thanks for posting this. Rosenberg is making me like Adam Rittenberg more and more.
Rittenberg said, in no uncertain terms, that it appears Michigan "obliterated" the rules. Did he see them do it with his own eyes? No, he's writing an article about ANOTHER newspaper's story. He's couching his statement because he didn't do the reporting.
A friendly reminder: the Free Press is the same newspaper that just won a Pulitzer for exposing a mayor who was later imprisoned. They also won about two dozen other awards, too. Wanna question their reporting standards? Go for it.
Honestly, Bo Schemechler has gotta be spinning in his grave almost as fast as you guys are spinning this story. Rodriguez is dirty.
Rodriguez is dirty? Sure, there is a substantial amount of concrete evidence proving that he is dirty. Oh wait.
Also, "Dantonio Banderas" ? How fucking lame.
You're probably going to stop posting here when this story goes away, especially when the NCAA takes this with a grain of salt, but I think something in your "analysis" of the situation is lacking.
"A friendly reminder: the Free Press is the same newspaper that just won a Pulitzer for exposing a mayor who was later imprisoned."
Guess which department in the newspaper had nothing whatsoever to do with that. I'll give you a clue: it starts with an S and ends with ports.
"You're naïve if you think every FBS program practices for no more than 20 hours a week or no more than four hours a day. You're naïve if you think members of the coaching staff don't attend voluntary 7-on-7 scrimmages during the offseason -- or receive direct reports about what happened. You're naïve if you think players aren't strongly encouraged to spend more than the required eight hours a week working out during the winter and summer.
These "violations" happen everywhere."
Wow, some sanity at last!!
Just because they are violations that happen everywhere doesn't make them any less of a violation. Ed Martin was paying many basketball players not at UM but only one school got punished. am not equating this two in the sense of severity just that the NCAA can be capricious in who they choose to punish
I think you missed the "...." around violations in the ESPN story. That is typically done in this context to indicate these really weren't violations.
I'd like to know if RR really went over board or if Carr was running a country club and this is just culture shock. Judging by the way our defense was huffing and puffing vs Appy state and Oregon, one has to at least lean towards the latter.
It'd also be nice to know if these are RR's recruit's complaining, or Carr's. If it's Lloyd's, then this is an absolute non story (unless we get sanctioned), if it's RR's then this could really get the ball rolling on the end of his tenure.
The athletic department will do its own investigation, right?
The AD wouldn't be completely oblivious to any of this
I agree that it would be interesting to know if Carr recruits or RR recruits made the allegations. But, I think it's a little much to say Carr was running a "country club." Even if he was, he had a pretty respectable record if he was just letting players lounge in the sun and eat milk and honey. Carr's gone, we need to let it go. Unless he's behind the anonymous reports to the Freep.
And yes, I'm sure the University will conduct some sort of investigation. I'm sure the Compliance folks aren't happy with the shit on their face this morning. The biggest worry for RR, I think, is donor base/the Blue Hairs. We like to think we are the face of Michigan fans here on MGoBlog. We're not. If enough people paying for the suites, etc. get fed up and voice it to Bill Martin directly and from the checkbooks, Rich Rod is in trouble. This the first time a "major" NCAA violation has been alleged in the national print media vs. Michigan. Donors used to being able to say we're better than everyone else because our program is so "clean" won't like it. Just my two cents. And if UM does well this year, the donors will be happy. We'll see a week from yesterday.
Does this count as a major violation if true? Does anyone know what sort of punishment might come of it? What's the worst case scenario?
An interesting and relatively level-headed take is here:
Take a look at the part about SDSU.
I do know that several M players drafted by the NFL in Carr's last year hired S&C guys to prep them for the NFL combine and publicly stated that the workouts were far more strenuous than anything at U/M. And, that their performance improved significantly.
Just one quibble with the article:
"But what sets Michigan apart is the willingness of current and former players to speak publicly, albeit anonymously, about the alleged time-limit violations by coaches and trainers."
"But what sets Michigan apart is the presence of a beat writer at a local newspaper who thinks 'beat' means 'with a stick.'"
You also have to love the Free Press taking Rittenberg entirely out of context and quoting this article in their online reactions blurb. The "friction between players and coaches" part is what they go with, not anything that would put a damper on their story.
What the Freep did to Stokes and Hawthorne is horrible. The quotes they gave pretty clearly show they were asked very innocuous sounding questions. Now they're the star witnesses in a public vendetta.
Rittenberg's is otherwise a spot-on article from top to bottom.
i am a former athlete (non-football) at u of m and we were always told that if school isnt in session, its unlimited time for practice, workouts etc. Secondly, it is hard to decipher what is or isn't mandatory, but when 99% of the team is participating in a "voluntary workout," your the oddball if you don't come. The Sunday sessions, granted not being a football guy, were not full out practices (from my sources), it was film, treatment, and positional meetings. Which broke and met at different times. so is it pausible that the football team was always there 10am to 9:30pm? yea, but there are people moving in and out of Shembecler. Also, the NCAA mandates one day off per week in-season. Nothing was said about that being broken.
and btw Boren, from good sources, loved being coddled by the Carr regime and when RR came in, he actually had to work and didn't like that one bit.
From the players I know, being both RR and LC recruits, they love RR, they work hard as a team, Barwis whoops everyone's ass equally. For the guys who were LC recruits, is it different? Hell yea, but they that they all are playing for Michigan not, LC or RR.
Rittenberg is great, and this proves it. You know, there were people who have called the Northwestern grad a moron because of a few less than satisfactory articles he almost seemed forced to write.
This reaction by AR is just terrific. Sure, he's not going ahead and saying outright that Michigan is innocent (we don't know that yet), but he's also not saying that the program is certainly guilty. He is taking a stand for caution and reason; he isn't jumping to conclusions or simply going along with the accusations. He seems to be proving his large testicle size by mildly fisking the Freep. We all know too well how ESPN analysts make asses of themselves (See Holtz, Lou), but AR has taken a break from writing the mandatory fluff pieces and has written a brilliant and careful reaction piece that sets him apart from a number of sports writers. I know it seems like nothing, but I am just very impressed with Mr. Rittenberg right now.
Btw, great point by one commenter who might actually be a Buckeye fan ("WoodyIsMyDad"):
"Nice going, Free Press, you just took a new staff that was giving unprecedented access to the program and you're probably going to make them go right back to the bunker days of Carr where finding out anything was like pulling teeth. Brilliant."
He's not known for being one of the best or brightest writers out there, but he has some insights in his article about this mess and is rather reasonable.
From the article you linked: "There is no gray area in the Freep report. The story is solid and well reported"
So, taking statements out of context by teenagers without any follow up questions is "solid and well reported"?
Believing that a person's memory of events that occurred several days/weeks/months/years ago outweighs documented data collected by the University is "solid and well reported"?
Don't get me wrong, I didn't agree with everything he wrote, and that one quote you mention did stick out to me as well. I think it was just that I was more surprised that Dennis Dodd had a little sense in some parts of his article rather than act like a complete moron and just jumping on the "let's blame RR" bandwagon. Whatever the case, there's no need to be a dick about it.
the allegations & possible violations are not enough, now we have to worry about "friction" and "dissent" among the team? DAMMIT...what a "black cloud" & HORRIBLE timing!!
To be clear, if this is all true...and I really see no reason for current AND former players to make such an allegation, if it's not true...I want RR FIRED ASAP!! I NEVER liked that SOB & after all the CRAP of last year & now this, how much more must we be subjected to!! I also want Bill Martin to resign or be fired!!
This kind of shit never happened under Bo or Carr...and they were as demanding, if not more, than "West Virginia Bum"!!
This is such a bad post. So you hate him and you want him and Martin fired. He did he same stuff at WV. Just calm down. Some people really need to take a deep breath and calm down. This is not life or death.
What grounds do you have to say that RR is an SOB? What crap of last year? Losing? Yeah, M lost. Lost a lot. What other "crap" is there? Carr recruits transferring? You, sir, are irrational and sensationalistic.