NCAA Prez: Michigan a very collaborative partner
“Michigan has been a very collaborative partner all the way through the process, and we’re gonna pursue it until we finish interviewing everybody that is scheduled to be interviewed and review all the documents that we’ve asked for,” Baker said Friday here at Washington State University, where he was visiting.”
Perhaps I am being panglossian, but I felt that quote from NCAA president Charlie Baker augurs well for Michigan in regards to punishment.
November 17th, 2023 at 11:13 PM ^
It says we're spineless baby cowards who roll over and show our tummy to the NCAA, an organization that would be toothless, but we gave them teeth. Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, would never capitulate like this.
November 18th, 2023 at 12:05 AM ^
Know I'll get negged, but you don't know how dumb you sound. If we did what you say, I'd bet anything the outcome would not be one anyone here would like. Decisions are made for reasons. You don't want positive outcomes for the team or university more than the people leading the university, you just know way less about the situation (as do I, but I'm not claiming to know better than anyone making the choices).
We can't make ourselves win by insisting we win. We have to actually react to reality
November 18th, 2023 at 12:10 AM ^
I’m gonna second this.
I get we are all upset. I spent four years at that school. The administration isn’t stupid, particularly this one. It’s very clear they pivoted on new information. Strong opinions held loosely. I have respect for them. I still believe harbaugh is innocent and disagree with sitting him for OSU in particular, but I do believe they are doing what’s best for the school.
I would not feel the same if schlissel was still around.
November 18th, 2023 at 1:35 AM ^
I always am amused when people bring up Tennessee as an example of how we should play tough with the NCAA. Because, uh, I’m assuming they’re not aware that Tennessee had to vacate a bunch of wins and their (already fired) HC got a show cause. And people see that as the model?
November 18th, 2023 at 4:34 AM ^
Exactly. And what also amuses me when people forget the past, like that Alabama in the early 2000s was punished so hard because they were already on probation they nearly got the death penalty. Same with Kentucky basketball in the early 90s.
November 18th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
Yeah, all that did was teach both programs how to pay players without being caught. Notably making sure the rest of the conference stopped pulling a Fulmer. TN who was also being investigated for academic fraud at the time by the NCAA magically had everything disappear after Fulmer handed over evidence on Bama. After that the SEC became what we know today, where everyone knows, but nobody talks.
After getting all of their scholarships back and off probation, Bama has won 17 of the 19 games played against TN. Losing the only two games by a combined 6 points.
Also Kentucky got in trouble in the late 80's and nobody is getting a TV ban again.
November 18th, 2023 at 8:55 AM ^
So I guess a good rule for life is trust the people in charge. They never make mistakes?
November 18th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
That's exactly what he said. Good job.
November 18th, 2023 at 6:14 PM ^
Thank god Schlissel made poor decisions in time to not be here right now, and make poor decisions.
November 18th, 2023 at 12:14 AM ^
Agreed. We've got people on here advocating to fight against the NCAA. Im proud of the way the administration is handling this and thanks to the adults in the room we won't get hammered.
November 18th, 2023 at 12:21 AM ^
Exactly who says we’re not going to get hammered?!
November 18th, 2023 at 12:29 AM ^
Username checks out. It's a low level violation, staff members have already been suspended or fired. Why obstruct the NCAA investigation and turn it into a more serious offense?
November 18th, 2023 at 12:27 AM ^
I do wish there was more transparency, but I hold the NCAA more accountable for that. The rule that you can’t comment on an open investigation is so anti American to me. Sorry to semi bring politics into something like this. But it’s frustrating to know that the full truth, even if it means SOME people broke rules, would be much better than endless doomsday speculation by people like finebaum etc. it’s insane.
November 18th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
I agree. The NCAA has not been the issue in all of this, there were some clear violations and there is no reason to fight an investigation. The issue is the B10 acting like they need to be the governing body and arbitrarily pick a punishment before the investigation is complete. We have a governing body, it’s the NCAA.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:35 AM ^
I agree with BK on this. However, it seems like we were played like a Stradivarius by someone with an agenda against M.
November 18th, 2023 at 8:07 AM ^
Thank God there is some sanity around here.
November 18th, 2023 at 10:26 AM ^
Cooperation was actually our best play here if Stalions was rogue. Resistance at all cost could have caused the NCAA and B1G to nuke our season and chances with a team that is actually built to win it all this year. Not gonna have this chance with this amount of depth/leadership every year. Other than the drip,drip,drip from the msm, I don’t think it has gone as bad as it could’ve. Take care of business today and pound that team from Columbus next week… I say we pound them until they say our name.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:01 PM ^
The NCAA gangs up on Michigan because they know we fold. It’s backwards but that’s college football
November 18th, 2023 at 12:20 AM ^
My understanding was that Tennessee did just capitulate like this. That's why they got away with such minimal punishment for their violations earlier this year.
Of course, their conference also didn't undermine them during the NCAA investigation process.
November 18th, 2023 at 5:53 AM ^
Of course, their conference also didn't undermine them during the NCAA investigation process.
This. The problem isn’t UM cooperating with the NCAA. The problem is the B1G getting completely out of their lane and actively trying to sabatoge UM’s season. And all because the dregs of the conference are butthurt about being the dregs of the conference.
November 18th, 2023 at 6:25 AM ^
And all because the dregs of the conference are butthurt about being the dregs of the conference.
This wasn't started by "the dregs of the conference", this was almost certainly spearheaded OSU and Ryan "Karen" Day. Day knows this is his most vulnerable team in his five years as HC at OSU and is desperate for any edge that might stave off another ass-kicking at the hands of Michigan.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:05 AM ^
If this is the outcome cryin ryan was hoping for to give him an edge, I think he has miscalculated. If anything, this team will be playing with one heart and one mind to kick their asses and doing it for Coach Harbaugh.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:02 AM ^
Tennessee fully cooperated with the NCAA. They were dealing with 18 Level 1 violations and over 200 infractions related to about $60k in payments to players and a bunch of recruiting violations. Their cooperation helped them avoid a LOIC charge and a bowl ban. They still had scholarship reductions, over $8M in fines and had to vacate 11 wins along with other punishments - much of which they had self imposed.
November 18th, 2023 at 12:20 AM ^
SEC/ACC = fuck you ncaa, subpoena us! What? No subpoena power you say? Yeah, we’re not providing shit. How’s that for a “damn fine offer?!”
UM = here’s the computers, servers, passwords, cloud ID and handwritten notes and you can interview anyone and everyone you please. Also, you missed some issues during your review, there’s extra stretching, bagels AND cream cheese, and some burgers. Yes sir, may I have another?!
November 18th, 2023 at 12:41 AM ^
Thank you! 👏 Spot on!
November 18th, 2023 at 1:09 AM ^
Michigan has never been like that and never will. They don't want their reputation tarnished. I think if you want that kind of bold faced defiance, you should find yourself another school to root for. Not being snarky here, but what you're wanting just isn't Michigan.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:01 AM ^
A week ago this was exactly all of our attitudes. We were all saying F the big 10, screw the corrupt ncaa. Now as evidence comes out we change our tune. The only difference in us and the other schools mentioned is that we have smart enough alumni to know when our goose is cooked. They are crawling up asses now. It's going to get a lot worse for us, the fans who are the innocent ones in all this.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:08 AM ^
Bring it on.
November 18th, 2023 at 8:10 AM ^
I'm a fan, but the innocent ones I'm worried about are the players.
November 18th, 2023 at 8:33 AM ^
Perhaps, but it sure seems to me that someone (or maybe several someones) was/were slow-dripping truths, half truths, and outright lies to fan the flames and get UM to react with imperfect knowledge. In essence they kept setting a trap that Michigan and we, it’s fans, kept falling into.
November 18th, 2023 at 9:01 AM ^
I am afraid you are right @Charlesdesmond. When this is over, it is going to be bad.
Coach Harbaugh will be gone, and zero coaches on this staff will return. There will be show-cause penalties for Coach Harbaugh and the primary D/O Coordinators if they participated in this. Regardless, none of these Coaches are coming back.
There will be multi-year probation, bowl bans, scholarship losses, vacated wins, and players transferring to other schools after these 40 Seniors leave. And it will go beyond the Stalions idiocy. U S Integrity is involved for gambling irregularities.
Bitching about other schools and coaches is understandable, but they didn't do this. Bad decisions were made and they continued. Tale as old as time ...
With certainty, there is a transition scenario in place already. Coach Harbaugh will coach in the CFP or Bowl game if things turn south next Saturday.
Think of Titanic after the captain learned the scope of damage and told the ship's officers to man the lifeboats and send out the distress signals.
This era of Michigan Football is over. And it is going to be terribly sad.
November 18th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
... And the context is simply this - having seen organizations respond to issues involving ethics and decision-making in the command - the initial response is to stand on the hill and hold until relieved - defend in place ...
It always ends the same way - the organization and the command - the system - contracts and crushes the people associated and they are replaced ... the merits and rationale and well-intended decisions in whatever the situation was ... the organization cleans the command and starts over ... and that is what is coming as sure as day turns to night and the sun rises ... it is coming.
My perspective is a guy who became a fan (my team doesn't win all that often and we only really care about one game anyway.) Came to appreciate Michigan, the Athletic Department, and the entire school. Could only imagine what it would have been like to go to UM. I am happy with the course I was afforded and the opportunity to serve - but I get how special this place is and how special the tradition here is.
Came up for the Army - Michigan game and almost had an epic upset. Was here for five days ... Tailgating on the sun-drenched Golf Course in September among those enormous pine trees. The Big House. Going out to the bars and having a truly memorable time ... Had an Army buddy whose son was a Coach - and got to meet the Olympic Sports Coaches and see the facilities ... have met a number of UM football players over the years and they are some of the best, strongest, most ebullient, and toughest, smartest leaders I've met.
This is a great coaching staff and the culture and the team are one of the best anywhere - ever.
Finish strong. Win. Create memories for a lifetime right now - Remember your friends you went through it with ... And let history take its course ... can't stop what is coming ... and it sucks. It Effing sucks.
November 18th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
Piss off with this nonsense.
November 18th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
Why be a jerk? You can disagree without being a jerk. I don't agree with this analysis either. But...go ahead a forcefully explain why he is wrong. Telling a non-troll to 'piss off' is not really useful. And, again...is there really any reason to be a jerk?
November 18th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^
Wendyk5 is right.
Sure, the Big Ten absolutely, 100% screwed us over and didn't have our back. However, this nonsense is the result of a self-inflicted wound.
The problem is not that we rolled over, it's that we hired an extremely dumb, crazy fuck who wasn't supervised very well.
We wouldn't be looking at this situation otherwise. Of course our adversaries are going to take advantage of a situation like this.
The worst part is that this is the best, most talented and powerful Michigan team I've seen going back as far as I can remember, and I'm pretty old. That includes 1997. If the team is affected by this, I'll be pretty upset - the only way I see this team at risk for a loss is without our head coach on the sidelines.
My grandfather used to say this about living by the rules: "You don't want to have to walk down the street looking over your shoulder."
So yes, blame the conference for hope this was handled. Blame the NCAA for this incredibly stupid rule. Blame the opposition coaches and ADs for handling this like the assholes they are. Blame the media for making this small thing into a circus.
But don't blame the administration who made decisions that were smart, because there was nothing they could do to stop this freight train once it got rolling.
November 18th, 2023 at 5:02 AM ^
I don’t think the schools thumb their nose at the ncaa when they are actively under investigation. They break the rules and generally do it in a way where they don’t get caught. If they do get caught, they are pretty compliant, as we have been. I, and most people in this blog, are mad that the Big Ten put their 2 cents in this without any precedent for such actions and were so heavy handed.
November 18th, 2023 at 12:42 AM ^
That is a stupid take. I said in a thread before this came out that Baker seems like a smart and reasonable guy, we had heard nothing from him except his testimony to congress on NIL regulation, and we may find they appropriately do nothing about an old rule on sign stealing that is irrelevant today.
November 18th, 2023 at 4:11 AM ^
You said lots of shit in other threads that was blatantly false.
I think you should probably sit down and shut up
November 18th, 2023 at 10:11 PM ^
I said nothing that was false. No one could have predicted everything that happened this week. Everyone is all depressed and wants to neg anything they don’t agree with right now.
But stupid speculative emotional takes like this one based on absolutely zero facts or insights should be called out. The NCAA may very well still screw us but so far there is nothing.
And for this, the book on Baker hasn’t been written yet. That’s a fact.
November 18th, 2023 at 6:51 AM ^
The NCAA knows the SEC conference members would defend each other from the outset instead of cannibalizing one of their own like the big ten. We have no friends.
November 18th, 2023 at 6:54 AM ^
they wouldn’t. probably. they’re also the scum of the fucking earth, so there’s that.
November 18th, 2023 at 7:27 AM ^
Exactly right. And Mich. should stop too
November 18th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^
You should look up the history of major sanctions against Alabama and Tennessee. They cooperated in exactly the way Michigan is doing.
November 18th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
I’m posting this again as I don’t think it warrants a new thread, but I want to try and give it more prominence in this thread. Here is ncaa’s logic and punishment of Tennessee. Tennessee had a ton of punishment, but they didn’t get any forward looking bans from post-season because they cooperated. Also, there most egregious punishments were because they had ineligible players. We won’t have that.
November 18th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
SEC conference is laughing at B1G conference for destroying itself.
November 18th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
"We're..." yeah right
You've got zero skin in the game so of course it's easy to play tough guy and dismiss those who are actually responsible for making muti billion dollar decisions.
November 17th, 2023 at 11:15 PM ^
I think it's important to be as honest and transparent as possible. If something is broken, fix It as best you can and move on.
November 17th, 2023 at 11:27 PM ^
I personally don't think anything is broken.
So we have nothing to fix and nothing to apologize for
November 17th, 2023 at 11:33 PM ^
You can keep saying this all you want, but Michigan itself gave up the ghost and folded on the moral high ground front. It now looks beyond hypocritical and is pivoting swiftly to damage control mode. This whole thing has become an embarrassment, if nothing else, and all the M folks that were thumping their chest last week have suddenly stopped. There’s a reason for that.