Michigan Starting Defense Projections.

Submitted by MichiganMan14 on

I think we will have a "Michigan Defense" this season and one gander at this starting lineup should be enough to convince even the most fatal of fatalists.  We are stacked.  Can we live up to the billing?  The biggest question I have is team speed which will be revealed against ND, Ohio, Sparty and our bowl opponent.   Ideally you would like your DBs (sub 4.5) LBs (sub 4.7) DEs (sub 4.9) and DTs (sub 5.1).    Not sure if we are there on the Dline yet.   Regardless, heres what I've got guys......

C- Blake Countess- 5ft10 180lbs (Rjr)

C- Raymon Taylor- 5ft10 184lbs (Sr)

SS- Jarod Wilson- 6ft2 205lbs (Jr)

FS- Dymonte Thomas- 6ft2 193lbs (So) 

Nickel- Jabril Peppers- 6ft1 205 (Fr)

OLB- Joe Bolden- 6ft3 231 (Jr)

MLB- Jake MF Ryan- 6ft3 236lbs (Rsr)

SAM- Royce Jenkins Stone- 6ft2 234lbs (Jr)/ James Ross III- 6ft1 227lbs (Jr)   Torn.....

SDE- Taco Charlton-6ft6 276lbs (So)

WDE- Frank Clark- 6ft2 277lbs (Sr)

DT- Chris Wormley- 6ft4 295 (Rso)

DT- Ondre Pipkins- 6ft3 306lbs (Jr)

 

Average size for Secondary= 6ft+ /193lbs

Average size for "Backers"= 6ft3 / 234lbs

Average size for DLine= 6ft4/ 289lbs

Average * rating for Defense= 3.92

Average years in program= 2  

*Safety is the weakest link.  Peppers can slide to safety and Hill and Clark can be of service there as well. 

*Jourdan Lewis will push at both corner spots and Stribling/ TR3 should contribute.

* We have a slew of 4 star LBs on the bench (4) plus D. Morgan.

* We have 5 Four star D-Lineman on the bench not including Godin/Hurst/Henry.

* This Michigan defense is deep and talented.  Fatigue should not be an issue.  We have more NFL talent on this defense than we have had in 8 years.  Time to get after peoples' ass.

*Charlton/Bolden/Jenkins-Stone/Clark can all run well from what I've gathered which alleviates much of my concern with team speed.  Our secondary should be just fine in that dept. 

With Ohio's Oline issues I don't see an offense that we can't matchup with. 

 

JTrain

August 7th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^

"Wow man." You clearly don't like my post. Then in your last three sentences pretty much agree with everything I wrote. I'm going to go back to work now and pretend like we never wasted time rehashing this....
K? Bye now. Good talk.

TdK71

August 7th, 2014 at 7:32 AM ^

Especially about the getting after people's asses, this is the year for the defense.

 If they can hold people to 20 points or less a game we will be in every one and have a chance to win them all.

I'm not saying we will win every game just saying we will have a chance to do so.

chomz14

August 7th, 2014 at 7:45 AM ^

Although on paper even in bad years. I get excited over the possibilities of what this team could do. But this year it just feels different. To see a bunch of posts about depth charts and to see guys like Ross and Morgan as backups when both have started and been very productive is crazy. If Bolden starts ahead of Morgan which could happen. And RJS over Ross which I'm not sure about. We might have a couple of the best backup LB's in the country.

Sauce Castillo

August 7th, 2014 at 7:46 AM ^

NT- Pipkins / Henry

5T – Wormley / Hurst

WDE – Clark / Ojemudia

SDE – Beyer / Taco (I’m hoping Taco progresses to a 50/50 split as the yr goes on)

WILL – Bolden / Morgan

MIKE – Ryan / Gedeon

SAM – Ross / RJS

Nickel – Peppers / Countess

BCB – Lewis / Taylor

FCB – Countess / Taylor

FS – Wilson / Clark

SS  - Thomas / Hill

 

If SS is a shaky spot once games get rolling I hope Peppers moves there sooner rather than later.

alum96

August 7th, 2014 at 7:54 AM ^

An offshoot of this depth chart

Most critical players - either due to impact or drop from him to next guy in depth chart

  • Wilson - only established returning safety.  If he goes down there is almost zilch experience in either S spot. Scary.
  • JMFR - some people have forgotten how great this guy was in 2012.  He was in total beast mode... injury seemed to hold him back last year even after he returned, as he has admitted (said it was mental recently)
  • Clark - while Clark has not been a super hero player, Mario O IMO has not made much impact so I feel the variance between the 2 is pretty significant.

Young dudes I am most excited about

  • Gedeon - Just a taste in the OSU game but other than JMFR he looked like our largest LB LAST year, and he made plays.
  • Wormley - he was coming off an ACL so probably still only 85% but he made splash plays. TFLs and sacks.  Size allows him to be a DT on passing playings and a DE on running plays IMO. 
  • Henry - another guy who made splash plays.  Having an impact on the DL at this age, especially at the 3 or 5 is difficult.  Both he and Wormley showed flashes of it - having 3 more years of these 2 has me happy.  Seems like some issues with Henry work rate per coaches comments so thats the wildcard
  • Lewis - ton of spring hype, if he wrests a starting CB job away it means only good things for depth.  More physical than our 2 starting CBs despite similar size from all accounts.

I left Peppers off the 2nd list since I only listed players I have seen play CFB.  Freshman secondary players tend to make errors so I will assume unless we hit a gold mine he will get exploited at times.

Salinger

August 7th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^

I'm really surprised how little talk Dymonte Thomas continues to get. He was a highly touted 5* recruit. I really hope he is a big time sleeper this year. M needs to get top production from these kinds of recruits.

This is in no way a slight against anyone who has NOT put DT on their excitement level lists, btw. Just my 2 cents.

alum96

August 7th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^

For my list I didn't see anything from Thomas last year other than the blocked punt on ST.  From a defensive standpoint I listed 3 players I saw some serious flashes and 1 player who got a ton of spring hype and at least played the position last year for decent periods of each game (Lewis).  Thomas may turn out to be great or average or poor - I don't know.  But right now I have almost no data on him at the college level - he barely played.  They all have long careers ahead of them - I am just going off what they have done in year 1 or year 2.  I'd say Thomas and Gedeon had the least game action but I noticed Gedeon when he was out there.

I am past the point of getting overly hyped by stars once they sign and are on campus and get into games.  Henry the 3 star impressed me more late in the year than Pipkins the 5 star early last year.

(1 small note - Thomas was a 4 star not a 5 star)

Salinger

August 7th, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^

I agree with your assessment, and you are right, he was a 4*. Obviously the coaches thought there were holes in his game last year or they would have played him more, so you are spot on. 

 

FWIW, I listened to the Hoke fall camp presser and he was name dropping Thomas at the safety position. We will see how it all shakes out in a few weeks!

SECcashnassadvantage

August 7th, 2014 at 7:59 AM ^

If he is at Nickel then he isn't the savior everyone said. That would be a shame, unless Hoke was being stupid because of "this is Michigan" rules. I know he tends to start older kids regardless when even remotely possible. Please let this kid shine if he is that good Hoke.

In reply to by SECcashnassadvantage

Boom Goes the …

August 7th, 2014 at 8:08 AM ^

if he is the starting NB that means he jumped to at least 3rd corner on the depth chart.  And it looks to me like we have at least 3 solid, experienced corners.  I would not call it a shame if Peppers locks down the nickel.  With most teams running 3 and 4 reciever sets, Nickel is basically a 12th starter anymore anyways

In reply to by Boom Goes the …

alum96

August 7th, 2014 at 8:25 AM ^

Generally you want your "talented but inexperienced" dude playing nickel.  That was the plan for Thomas 12 months ago at this time as well but the coaches decided to rotate him in multiple spots and from all accounts he struggled with that.  Peppers is not an early enrollee so having him focus on 1 position makes sense.   There are plenty of options at CB right now with more experience so I don't have an issue with it and I dont want to see him at S right now (personally others disagree) because reading the entire D from that position seems like a challenge for someone on campus for so short.  I think in 12 months we'll have a better idea of where he is going to settle - right now he is a wide eyed freshman on campus for all of 8 weeks or whatever.  Someone like a Watson has been there since January and they are talking about him as a backup S for this year which makes more sense from the standpoint of at least having 15 more practices in this defense and being immersed in the program for half a year more.

Space Coyote

August 7th, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^

The Michigan coaching staff has been wanting an athletic, physical NB since they arrived. A guy that can cause havoc and make plays and set the edge like Tyrann Mathieu did at LSU a few years back. People forget that he was far from a polished product, wasn't even close to the best CB on his team, but he was super athletic and could make plays and made the LSU defense that much better.

Michigan has been forced to play guys like Countess at NB because he could do that consistently, but that's not where Countess is optimally set. Countess should be on the single receiver side optimally. But they did that because Thomas wasn't ready from a playing in space standpoint, which is fine, but Peppers has played in space throughout HS, he's a more natural immediate fit at NB and he brings that difference maker ability.

NB is not a slight for Peppers. It gives him a position where his technique can be a bit flawed but he has help all around him to make up for him, and allows him to play fast, aggressive, and make plays. There is a reason the coaches keep saying he's a NB, because he's the type of player they have wanted at NB since they arrived.

In reply to by SECcashnassadvantage

cobra14

August 7th, 2014 at 8:18 AM ^

This is why I felt Peppers should be on offense from Day 1. His talented is needed much more on that side of the ball. I had a strong feeling he would be Nickel and nickel only because that's what it seems this staff does with Frosh defensive backs. Long way to go but I'm going to have a hard time if Peppers only sees the field sparingly in the opener on defense. The reason behind this is we don't have close to his type of talent on this team.

In reply to by cobra14

alum96

August 7th, 2014 at 8:29 AM ^

Will disagree with you.  Look at the great defenses of the past 10-20 years.  College or pro.  They generally have a shut down elite corner to take away half the field.  I have no idea what Peppers will be some day.  But if he becomes that sort of corner the rest of your defense has a massive halo effect.  If he just an average corner then I agree with you - go put his playmaking skills somewhere else. 

He is not a proven WR so where are you going to put him on offense?  There is a logjam at RB - we have 4 now who are all high recruits (1 a transfer).  And look what the NFL is valuing - more and more CBs are drafted very high - there is a reason.  When you find a bad ass CB it is invaluable.  It changes your whole defense.

cobra14

August 7th, 2014 at 8:37 AM ^

That's where we differ I don't think he is a lockdown corner. I also feel he is still growing mass wise. On offense you can use him in a ton of different ways. Wildcat, slot receiver lined up in the backfield with a RB. Could you imagine motioning the RB or Peppers out the confusion that would cause? I actually feel with Nuss he would be used very effectively in different ways.

In reply to by cobra14

Reader71

August 7th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^

Nuss is an actual person. He is not just a collection of your hopes and dreams for an offense. Wildcat? Name me one player Nuss ever coached and utilized in the ways you are wishing for.

cobra14

August 7th, 2014 at 8:48 AM ^

Since I don't have access to all Nuss game film of all the years he coached I'm just going to go out on a limb that he has coached a lot of big time talent and has seen a lot of big time talent that he can effectively use a guy like Peppers in creative ways this year. And if you are using Bama as your example it's pretty clear he wasn't allowed to do the stuff he wanted since Saban openly criticized that the offense wasn't possessing the ball long enough.

In reply to by cobra14

Reader71

August 7th, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^

Well, Nussmeier has never run the wildcat. Anywhere. With or without Saban. In fact, his offenses are fairly vanilla when it comes to shifts and motions. One could argue that if you wanted to see Peppers at RB and then motioned out wide, there would be a higher probability of that happening under Borges. Again, Nuss is a person, not a projection of our optimism. You cant just say, oh he's unknown to me and comes from a good program, so anything is possible. He has tendencies, just like everyone else. He has never shown much of a desire to have the sort of multiple-use offensive threat that you envision. And he has coached guys like and Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon, top players that could have been used that way.

In reply to by cobra14

Pit2047

August 7th, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^

Keep him on D for the time being, while he may not be a shutdown corner this year, he has a great chance to be one in the future, put him where his highest upside is. He is a freshman, let him learns the defense first, once he does that then we can start talking about offensive packages. This game is played shoulders up, I know he is the most talented guy on our team but that only gets you so far. He needs to spend his time with the DB's so he can become a lockdown corner, not wasting half his time learning the college level intricacies of WR and RB, positions where we are not devoid of talented guys. The coaches learned this lesson with Thomas last year, let the guy learn his projected spot before you start moving him all over the football field. This is the same thing Carr did with Woodson and look how that turned out, let's not get carried away here.

In reply to by cobra14

alum96

August 7th, 2014 at 10:38 AM ^

@ Cobra

I have no idea if he is a lockdown corner and I am not sure how you can evaluate him either - he has played exactly 0 games in college.  And even after this year we won't know if he is a lockdown corner.  They don't walk in at 18 years old and be Revis.

But my  larger point is I think we have difference makers on the offensive side of the ball.  It is hard to judge Peppers HS film on offense - if he is Reggie Bush, sure I get it.  But he looked like Reggie Bush versus HS kids.  If he can do it versus Wisconsin, that's another story.  But I for one want to see an elite defense.  Elite defense travels.  It is consistent.  It doesn't have off days.  We have enough young talent everywhere on offense at the skill positions.  I want some difference makers on our defense again.  I cant even remember the last difference maker in the secondary at UM.  Someone you have to scheme around. It's been a while. And on the defense as a whole we are talking Jake Ryan, Brandon Graham, and Mike Martin over the past 7-8 years.  We need multiple ones on the field at once. And CB and DE are the 2 positions that can change your entire defense.  So I'd like to try him first at CB and see if he is that difference maker.

Space Coyote

August 7th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^

He'll be able to make plays on offense eventually, but his potential and skill level are much higher on defense. You don't just move kids around willy nilly from year to year when you expect them to hit that learning curve hard and make an impact on his eventual position almost immediately.

Peppers was probably a top 10 RB and a top 10 WR in the country for a HS prospect last year. He was the #1 CB or #1 Safety coming it. That's the difference. You take a guy that's really good, or you take a guy that is a rare potential player on that side of the field. That's why he's on defense. The coaches can figure out S or CB next year, for now, you limit his role and let him make plays on that side of the ball. Many of the skills translate, so it isn't simply a wasted year, they will translate to his eventual position and make him that much closer to his potential for going forward.

In reply to by cobra14

Reader71

August 7th, 2014 at 8:40 AM ^

Charles Woodson broke in as a nickel back. He turned out fine. Some people would even call him a savior. And that wasn't even done by this staff. In fact, Woodson's late-career resurgence came as a nickel back. He will go in to the Hall of Fame largely because he is probably the greatest nickel back in history. Nickel back does not mean that you are the third best corner. This is not Madden. Nickel back is not any less important of a position than corner. This is not Madden. This is not Madden. This is not Madden. If he wins the starting nickel position, he will be on the field for probably half of the defensive snaps, many of those on third down, which is pretty important, no? This is not Madden.

In reply to by cobra14

LSAClassOf2000

August 7th, 2014 at 8:51 AM ^

Actually, if you have seen film of Peppers, the much more logical use of his talents is at corner because, at least in the film that is available, he's pretty much everywhere the ball is. I rather like the idea - if it happens to be the case - that Peppers would become the starting NB because having a true freshman as your #3 corner says much that is positive about his ability. Peppers on offense? I know they've hinted that he might find himself in certain situations on offense, but more one-off type stuff and not every down. 

In reply to by cobra14

avid

August 7th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^

I feel you in the sense that we want to put the ball in his hands at some point, but I believe they are going to try him out in the return game this year so he should get some touches. 

cobra14

August 7th, 2014 at 8:08 AM ^

Bolden is not only the starter but is clearly better then Morgan right now. I know Morgan has started for 3 years but he also did that at a time when are LB talent wasn't quite there. He will still play but it will be a lot less then people think. Ross better continue to progress because RJS is right on his heels. RJS is a better blitzer right now and will be used in those situations. Ross IMO hasn't played with consistency the last two years. Plenty of time to step that up. I think the interesting case here will be Gedon. I think he has a load of talent but obviously with Ryan's move to the middle we might not see him as much. That means things are perfect in the middle! Agree with above poster about T Rich. Just to small IMO but he still has time. The issue is Michigan is bringing in top flight talent at his position. It's the Rickey Powers syndrome here.

m1jjb00

August 7th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^

Various reports out of spring practice said that RJS has improved a lot.  Recall that he came in pretty thin, and if memory serves, he didn't gain a lot his first year.  He's still not huge, but in the acceptable range now.  Meanwhile reports out of spring had it that "the light turned on" for him. Adding it together, and many have reported that he and Ross are neck and neck.  

Whether RJS starts, I like to think that he could.  I've bought in and have gone all Marcus Hall on other Big 10 fans I know claiming that our 2nd string linebackers are better than their first team.

Gabranto

August 7th, 2014 at 8:26 AM ^

I am as optimistic as the next guy but you can't rely on the recruiting stars to tell how good they will be this year. Just a thought.

Mr. Yost

August 7th, 2014 at 8:31 AM ^

It seems like it because you're avoiding/ignoring everything that's been reported thus far.

Beyer's going to start, period.

Morgan and Ross are your likely starters at OLB as well.

Dymonte is a SS, so you'd flip he and Wilson since Wilson is a FS.

Wolverine Devotee

August 7th, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^

Week 1 projected lineup


SDE- Beyer
NT- Pipkins
DT- Wormley
WDE- F. Clark
SAM- Ross
MIKE- Ryan
WILL- Morgan
CB- Countess
CB- R. Taylor/Lewis
FS- Wilson
SS- Watson

Nickel- Peppers

 

There are some holes on special teams we may need to focus on. Glanda is gone. Felt like he was the LS here for 20 years. 

A new holder? Dileo was the holder virtually his whole career, and probably the most famous holder ever after the win over NW.

A new punt returner? Norfleet.....I hope he's figured out how to catch/field/call punts off. Hopefully he's like Gallon.

From "DAMN IT GALLON DON'T DROP THE PUNT" to what he later became.  

 

 

 

nowicki2005

August 7th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

just so you know. very fee teams have any players under the times you listed. not a lot of sub 4.5 electronic timed DBs and definitely not a lot of under 4.7 LBs. hand times are a joke. I don't get why people go by this thought when there is too much variance when you can rely on electronic 40s. also, game speed is much much different than 40 times. Gallon did not play like a 4.4 guy when he would always get caught from behind.

uminks

August 7th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^

To start Pepper out at NB! By next year or year 3 he will be a lock down DB! I see him taking punt returns as well as playing wide-out at times on offense. He's got the speed! I  hope he develops into a Woodson but Woodson's are usually once in every 50 year type dominating players!

BeatOSU52

August 7th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^

I love it that NONE of the national guys are even talking about how good these defense should be....although I can sort of understand that after last years' poor season.