McCaffrey's Arm (Strength)
I've seen quite a few posts this season about McCaffrey's lack of arm strength. One poster straight up saying he doesn't have the arm strength to run this offense (thoroughly downvoted) and there have been others too. On Saturday night, on separate throws, both Fowler and Herbs (ok to call him that?) commented on the "zip" McCaffrey has on his throws.
Does zip = arm strength? Personally, I don't believe we've seen him throw down field enough to have a strong opinion, but I don't think his arm strength is an issue.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:58 PM ^
Herbs again trying to cause more chaos in our fan base
October 28th, 2019 at 7:45 PM ^
Over the years herbs have usually chilled this fanbase. ?
October 28th, 2019 at 1:59 PM ^
There was plenty of zip on the pass to Sainristil for the TD. And I would venture to guess that the zip on longer throws is probably as good as Patterson's. But it's difficult to really compare the two from my armchair without DCaff playing a meaningful part of any game this season.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^
How about pre-game warm-ups? I've been to three games but haven't gotten inside the Stadium early enough to see the team go through its drills.
October 28th, 2019 at 7:48 PM ^
Ah, so you're the lucky one that got the armchair preventing outrageous opinions without data.
Where'd you get it? (asking for a friend)
October 28th, 2019 at 10:32 PM ^
Last year he had that bomb to Ronnie Bell.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:00 PM ^
The ball was coming off his hand well saturday night. He should be similar to Shea who doesn't have great arm strength either-witness his long balls that usually stall causing receiver to adjust his route and limiting many big plays. One exception was the sparty game deep to DPJ down the sideline for 6. Need to see more of that.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:30 PM ^
That was a ~25 yd throw that DPJ did work with. Shea got it out immediately after the snap, which is somewhat unusual for him.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
I don't think he has great arm strength, but the only data points we have are a couple throws against Nebraska last year in a game I was actually at and he put both of those balls on the money. My gut feeling is his arm strength is decent enough to get the job done if he shows the same anticipation and accuracy he showed on those throws, raw arm strength isn't everything.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^
Agreed. Shane Morris had arm strength galore, but that didn't matter much when he was on the field making split second decisions. The positive things said about McCaffrey coming out of high school was his poise, ability to run ANY offense, and his decision making. I will take those positives over having a Shane Morris type arm. And McCaffrey's arm strength coming out of high school wasn't bad either. He was throwing deep ball touchdowns to Ambry Thomas at The Opening a few years ago if that says anything (Ambry filled in at receiver for an injured Nico Collins).
October 28th, 2019 at 4:25 PM ^
So, if the only data points are throws that he executed perfectly, then what makes you think he doesn't have great arm strength?
Just not following the logic here.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^
His arm strength is very good and I’m not sure where this question keeps coming from. He has all intangibles and if he starts next year everyone will see it and wonder why he didn’t play more this season.
October 28th, 2019 at 7:32 PM ^
Found Dylan
October 28th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^
Arm strength is tangible, though.
October 28th, 2019 at 9:59 PM ^
Tom Brady vs Drew Henson is an example of fans focusing too much on arm strength and hype. Scouting reports in college described Brady as a pencil thin prospect lacking arm strength. Drew Henson had reports saying he had elite arm strength and was the next coming of John Elway. Both were good QBs at Michigan, but the one who had the tireless work ethic and drive became the greatest NFL QB ever. The intangibles won the day. Shea is good enough on most days, but Dylan could be great. All signs show he has the intangibles and I'm excited to see him get more time this year and next. He seems to have a coolness and poise in his limited playing time that could potentially make him elite along with his football pedigree.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
He is growing out of the awkward stage that comes with getting to 6'5 in a hurry. His arm strength will be ok (probably not great, but better than a Jake Fromm).
I do have a theory on why he had so much more "zip" than the other QBs on Saturday. His hand size (and maybe less rain?) allowed him to throw the ball with more confidence and spin than Shea and Book were able to manage when the ball was wet.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
The rain seemed to be letting up a bit when he went in too.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:46 PM ^
God didn't want him to get wet. His brother is better than him.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:09 PM ^
He has a far better mechanic than Patterson. No matter the weather, Patterson looks like he's heaving a medicine ball, McCaffery looks like he's throwing a baseball.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
I do not understand the obsession with "arm strength" for qbs. I will take a qb who can read a defense and go through his progressions and show poise in the pocket and sound decision making over a guy with a cannon for an arm and no clue where to throw the ball or how to look off a safety etc. Also, has Shea made any throws this season where arm strength seemed to be the difference between complete and incomplete? I can't say that I recall any off hand. Most of his misses (and several completions) are under thrown.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
I mean, yes, that's true given those two choices, but the obsession over QB arm strength is like the obsession over OL size. Arm strength isn't necessary to be good, but it is necessary to be great, and unlike those other traits, you can't teach it.
Also, if most of Shea's misses are underthrown....I mean....what does....how do.....I don't even....that's arm strength, man!
October 28th, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
"but it is necessary to be great"
Joe Montana was never among those NFL QBs with a cannon arm.
October 28th, 2019 at 3:54 PM ^
Jeff George disagrees...oh...wait.
October 28th, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^
And Kyle Boller
October 28th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
In the 1980s I saw a preseason game between the 49er's with Montana and Denver with Elway. It was obvious Elway had way more arm strength. Both QBs turned out alright.
In Dylan's limited action I was impressed by his quick release. Seems like a flash from the moment he IDs a target to getting the ball out of his hand.
It was also great to see 2nd and 3rd team players getting some time. Even if it was a mid-sized, non-conference, private school from Indiana.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Why in your choices does the qb with great arm strength have ‘no clue where to throw the ball’?
October 28th, 2019 at 2:45 PM ^
Well, ideally people would want a QB who has all those intangibles that you posted, along with having great arm strength. Most people who are into football know that having a cannon for arm doesn't necessarily make a player a good quarterback.
Though it's still something that's usually taking into consideration when discussing a QB's abilities because arm strength can make a difference on certain throws.
A guy with a really weak arm could also hamper an offense, no matter how good he is at those other things you stated.
It just depends on the QB because it might not matter one way or the other.
October 28th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
I mean, its definitely an issue. Its like height for a basketball player - height is obviously is not the only thing that matters, but all things even, you'll generally take the taller player.
Arm strength is not just about downfield throws. Arm strength can definitely affect accuracy - certainly in wind or rain like the game we just watched its a major factor. Arm strength will also affect timing - a ball that arrives at the correct spot ("accuracy") but is late because the ball is not thrown hard enough to arrive on time will cause a lot balls to be thrown behind WRs or that will hang and threaten to get picked off.
It is much harder to intercept a ball that is thrown hard, even if inaccurately, because the ball arrives too quickly, compared to an accurate pass that is slow and gives a defender time to react.
Shea's arm strength issues have definitely showed up at times - I can recall a number of passes thrown behind WRs on crossing routes, and several wobbly throws toward the sideline. We've seen a bunch of slow arriving passes where the WR is forced to wait on the pass or coming back toward the ball. This also gives defenders time to react and make a play on the ball or complete the tackle - and cuts down on chances for WRs to make a play after the catch.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:20 PM ^
You can really see Shea's lack of arm strength hindering him when he is throwing out routes or quick hitters to the opposite side of the field. Ideally the ball gets to he WR quick enough for him to turn up field and gain extra yardage. But unfortunately Shea's throws tend to hang in the air giving the defender in coverage time to close the gap and make an immediate tackle or break the pass up entirely.
October 28th, 2019 at 6:07 PM ^
To run an offense to it’s full capabilities arm strength is undoubtedly important. Sure you can adjust how the offense is run to suit the QB’s game - but if they’re trying to hit a comeback across the field, a deep 9, or any bullet pass, etc. arm strength is extremely important.
If you lack arm strength in those above scenarios you’ll give the D enough time or a short enough distance to break up the pass, or worse intercept it. That’s why when you see a QB hit a comeback from across the field people often say “that was an NFL throw” - it’s important in evaluating the position.
With all that being said I think Caff has shown he has a strong enough arm. Idk where people are seeing otherwise so clearly or when he was even given the chance to display it.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:02 PM ^
A sammich just isn't a sammich, without the nasty zip of Miracle Whip.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:15 PM ^
Umm, tangy zip. Don't insult the Miracle Whip.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
I will insult the hell out of Miracle Whip all day long, because it suuuuuuuuucks. It's like, let's take an actual good condiment and make a mockery of it. Miracle Whip cost me years of mayo eating because I thought that's what mayo tasted like, and I'm still bitter about it.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:23 PM ^
Similar experience. As a kid I wondered why I liked mayo at Subway and absolutely hated it at home. And then I found out that Miracle Whip was not in fact mayo.
Miracle whip tastes like troll sweat.
October 28th, 2019 at 3:05 PM ^
Burger King is what clued me into it. I had no idea what the tasty stuff was on the chicken sandwich until somehow I realized it was mayo.
Then I wondered if my taste buds had changed or something and slathered some Miracle Whip on a sandwich....and finally it all made sense.
October 28th, 2019 at 5:04 PM ^
Same here. I used to wonder why the Mayo on Whoppers and chicken sandwiches were delicious, and the stuff I ate at home was hot garbage. I thought it was a special recipe or something. Nope, it was trash ass Miracle Whip.
October 28th, 2019 at 3:34 PM ^
Had to log in to upvote this and lol. This is just genuinely funny asf for some reason.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:07 PM ^
Miracle Whip is the Bud Lite of Mayonnaise
October 28th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^
* O’Douls.
October 29th, 2019 at 9:33 AM ^
*Steel Reserve
October 28th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Miracle whip on a burger and with tuna. That's it.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:52 PM ^
I love a good argument about Mayo and Miracle Whip. I hate Miracle Whip. We grew up on Hellman's Mayonnaise. It seems like the only time we were stuck with Miracle Whip was when my Mom thought the sandwiches would get too warm. She didn't want us to get salmonella poisoning from the hot mayo.
What memories!
October 28th, 2019 at 3:00 PM ^
I grew up on Miracle Whip, love it, and have converted bona fide Hellman's eaters over to it. Regular mayo tastes like nothing to me. It doesn't add anything to my sandwich except the feeling of globs of fat in my mouth.
October 28th, 2019 at 3:19 PM ^
The question becomes whether or not you like the zing of the Miracle Whip versus the creaminess of the mayonnaise.
In other, words, the massive arm strength of the Miracle Whip versus the accuracy and smooth delivery of the mayo.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:29 PM ^
+1 to you sir for bringing the conversation full circle...
October 28th, 2019 at 3:59 PM ^
Peanut butter and miracle whip sandwiches were the go-to choice when we ran out of jelly and bananas.
October 28th, 2019 at 4:30 PM ^
Used to eat sandwiches with miracle whip, peanut butter, and lettuce. Most people think this sounds disgusting but I love them.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:12 PM ^
Finally, somebody that doesn’t cringe when a peanut butter and miracle whip sandwich is mentioned! I’ve waited 52 years for it. Thank you, kind poster!
October 29th, 2019 at 12:33 AM ^
I'm just here for the mayo posbang because Miracle Whip sucks!
October 28th, 2019 at 2:03 PM ^
Me, I said he didn’t. I still don’t believe it to be the case. Will I give him a fair shot unlike so many hypocritical fans did with Shea? yes I will.